Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Dats me

Eamon Ryan writing in the Sunday Times saying next publication is "next Tuesday".

No idea how pressreader.com works but it's the only place that I could find the article. Headline is: "We must not miss last chance to get Metrolink right" I can't seem to get a proper URL for it, sorry.

salmocab

Dats me wrote: »

Eamon Ryan writing in the Sunday Times saying next publication is "next Tuesday".

No idea how pressreader.com works but it's the only place that I could find the article. Headline is: "We must not miss last chance to get Metrolink right" I can't seem to get a proper URL for it, sorry.

And yet he will go out of his way to make sure it’s not right

prunudo

Dats me wrote: »

Eamon Ryan writing in the Sunday Times saying next publication is "next Tuesday".

No idea how pressreader.com works but it's the only place that I could find the article. Headline is: "We must not miss last chance to get Metrolink right" I can't seem to get a proper URL for it, sorry.

In other words, while the NTA plan maybe the correct one unless its Eamon Ryans vision of Metro it will be wrong.
And its not the last chance, there's plenty more time to add future lines and routes around the city in time. This current plan is the north south spine linking Swords to Sandyford, every other idea at present is both a distraction and a delaying tactic.

medoc

I’m sorry but the chances of it ever been built in this country is slim. That’s a terrible view but unfortunately it likely a real one. We don’t have a great track record. It’s badly needed for the whole country never mind Dublin.

prunudo

medoc wrote: »

I’m sorry but the chances of it ever been built in this country is slim. That’s a terrible view but unfortunately it likely a real one. We don’t have a great track record. It’s badly needed for the whole country never mind Dublin.

While I do fear this outcome I remain hopeful that it will get built eventually. I just hope 'eventually' doesn't take a lifetime.

Grandeeod

medoc wrote: »

I’m sorry but the chances of it ever been built in this country is slim. That’s a terrible view but unfortunately it likely a real one. We don’t have a great track record. It’s badly needed for the whole country never mind Dublin.

jvan wrote: »

While I do fear this outcome I remain hopeful that it will get built eventually. I just hope 'eventually' doesn't take a lifetime.

Sadly I agree. The longer it all goes on the closer the inevitability comes that it will all fall apart and be reinvented by a different Government and go back to square one again. I don't take any kind of personal delight in this, but it is a very very real possibility that is backed up by history.

Depending on your age, it can be seen as hopeful or yet another false dawn. I'm in the latter camp. I grew up expecting a fully completed DART project that started in 1979. I still remember my first trip on the DART in 1984 and what was to come after it. I was 29 when promises of a Metro and DU happened in a time of unprecedented economic growth. 19 years later and in and out of a recession nothing has been achieved. In fact we have gone backwards and continue to go backwards. The only safe bet is that we will enter another recession without progressing anything further.

All that said we have no choice but to support and hope that metrolink can be progressed to a point of construction. It's like a political merry go round.

Idbatterim

We just need to hope that tbm in ground before next recession and that there isn’t a change in government would help as its fg brainchild. There is a reasonable chance of it being built in that case ... other than appalling gridlock where the issue is forced, is probably still a few years away, again assuming construction keeps up its current delivery ...

MetroLinker

Sam Russell wrote: »

Could they not provide an alternative building to the apt block and leisure centre to be constructed before the demolition, so the move out is directly into the new accommodation. It does not need to be that close - perhaps a few hundred metres away, but as close as feasible.

Just an idea.

I've noted this on the site before - a straight CPO isn't the correct route for this apartment block. I totally understand that it's the option available to the NTA so they are using it, but it isn't the correct option.

If they are serious, they should negotiate with the owner-occupiers who want to live in the city centre to swap for an equivalent apartment block. You may have to sweeten the deal a little but at the end of it, the NTA would own a % of college gate apartments (which would always retain value if the project didn't proceed) and they would avoid the protests.

The public gym is a different beast that would need some other approach. The gym was closed for a full year for renovations but people did return once it reopened so it isn't a case that the neighbouring facilities are a better option for people.

Just a point of information, the NTA didn't inform residents that the block is being demolished - they only deal with the owners.

CatInABox

MetroLinker wrote: »

I've noted this on the site before - a straight CPO isn't the correct route for this apartment block. I totally understand that it's the option available to the NTA so they are using it, but it isn't the correct option.

If they are serious, they should negotiate with the owner-occupiers who want to live in the city centre to swap for an equivalent apartment block. You may have to sweeten the deal a little but at the end of it, the NTA would own a % of college gate apartments (which would always retain value if the project didn't proceed) and they would avoid the protests.

The public gym is a different beast that would need some other approach. The gym was closed for a full year for renovations but people did return once it reopened so it isn't a case that the neighbouring facilities are a better option for people.

Just a point of information, the NTA didn't inform residents that the block is being demolished - they only deal with the owners.

When people talk of the "CPO process", it actually means that every effort is made to negotiate a deal first, and if that fails, then the compulsory purchase order is made. The negotiated deal will be above market rate, so as to encourage the owners to sell, while the CPO will be at market rate, again incentivising those owners to sell.

Getting into finding and buying another apartment for owners could result in massive delays, as owners could continue to say that it's unsuitable for years. It's far better to keep it as simple as possible, and to just deal in money.

The gym will almost certainly be rebuilt (I'd eat my hat if it isn't a condition of the railway order), and a multi-year closure is a small price to pay for a seamless interchange station.

Legally speaking, the NTA don't have an obligation to speak with the tenants, only the owners, and it could in fact be a legal minefield to speak to tenants without the landlords permission.

CatInABox

Dats me wrote: »

Eamon Ryan writing in the Sunday Times saying next publication is "next Tuesday".

No idea how pressreader.com works but it's the only place that I could find the article. Headline is: "We must not miss last chance to get Metrolink right" I can't seem to get a proper URL for it, sorry.

It's up on the independent site now. See here.

Hilariously, he calls for avoiding a repeat of the Childrens Hospital fiasco, but then also calls for construction to go ahead without knowing the finalised route, which seems to be one of the main causes of the hospital fiasco.

jd

The content on the metrolink site will update tomorrow afternoon, from about 2pm on.

Kermit.de.frog

Quote from Eamonn Ryan;

The Metro tunneling machine will cross the Liffey in 7 years time...

The fact that's even said illustrates the absolute farce this country is at delivering any infrastructure. 7 years before it's even crossing the Liffey. :rolleyes:

It's disgraceful how we deliver projects in this country.

We need complete reform of the process.

Idbatterim

“We should use the next few months to consider all the alternatives. We must avoid the mistakes made in other big capital projects before entering any contracting process. Now is the time to have one last look at all the alternatives.” A quote of his from the independent.ie article. Do you know what the biggest mistake has been for decades doing nothing!!! Talking talking talking. Absolute morons. This notion of the running it out to knocklon is more laughable than ever the more you think about it. Farcical. At some stage in the future with another metro line maybe. Right now , it’s actually the best thing they can do if they want nothing to ever get built here. Which does seem to be the case ...

cgcsb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quote from Eamonn Ryan;




The fact that's even said illustrates the absolute farce this country is at delivering any infrastructure. 7 years before it's even crossing the Liffey. :rolleyes:

It's disgraceful how we deliver projects in this country.

We need complete reform of the process.

There should be an overarching infrastructure body, say a merger between TII and NTA and the infrastructure of other departments that are above a certain value. This body gets a budget every year to deliver infrastructure, and that's it, no politicians allowed in the door. Consultation should be also cut down to the minimum statutory time.

Kermit.de.frog

So what happens now?...the latest plan is released tomorrow.


Can someone cut through the crap for me and everyone else - when are the shovels going in to the ground?

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

There should be an overarching infrastructure body, say a merger between TII and NTA and the infrastructure of other departments that are above a certain value. This body gets a budget every year to deliver infrastructure, and that's it, no politicians allowed in the door. Consultation should be also cut down to the minimum statutory time.

Great idea BUT the politicians would never have it. Would take away from the one trick pony of welfare increases and minuscule income tax cuts every budget! Mainly at recession time , could you imagine the moron media if metro link was going ahead , while guards daughters were eating dry cereal before going to school ...

CatInABox

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So what happens now?...the latest plan is released tomorrow.


Can someone cut through the crap for me and everyone else - when are the shovels going in to the ground?

2019: Railway Order Application.
2020: Application approval.
2021: Construction start.

This is the project timeline, back from before the delays surrounding the public consultation. At a guess, add at least six months on to each one.

Idbatterim

CatInABox wrote: »

2019: Railway Order Application.
2020: Application approval.
2021: Construction start.

This is the project timeline, back from before the delays surrounding the public consultation. At a guess, add at least six months on to each one.

Here is my guess ...
2019: Railway Order Application.
2020: Application approval.
2021: another public consultation. (For people who have only just moved to Dublin and weren’t here for the first one )
2022: Recession
2022: project axed. Mission complete

2030: growth and gridlock again, wheel reinvented again and then copy and paste the above... again and again ...

Idbatterim

“So what happens now?...the latest plan is released tomorrow.


Can someone cut through the crap for me and everyone else - when are the shovels going in to the ground?”

Shovels were meant to be in the ground over a decade ago. If you believe the ever changing timelines coming from the nta, you’ll also believe in the tooth fairy!

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

could you imagine the moron media if metro link was going ahead , while guards daughters were eating dry cereal before going to school ...

:pac: lol @ that example.

cgcsb

I notice that the culchie stick hasn't been pulled out to beat us with yet. What about the bypass Ted would have been the narrative in the papers only a few years ago. Has the long fabled 'forgotten rural Ireland' been actually forgotten?

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

I notice that the culchie stick hasn't been pulled out to beat us with yet. What about the bypass Ted would have been the narrative in the papers only a few years ago. Has the long fabled 'forgotten rural Ireland' been actually forgotten?

Like us. They probably think it could likely be another false dawn. The “rural Ireland bs” will come out if this looks like it will actually go ahead. There will be calls west of Irelands metro from Shannon to limerick. Of course in keeping with tradition, it will have to be longer than the equivalent in Dublin...

jd

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quote from Eamonn Ryan;




The fact that's even said illustrates the absolute farce this country is at delivering any infrastructure. 7 years before it's even crossing the Liffey. :rolleyes:

It's disgraceful how we deliver projects in this country.

We need complete reform of the process.

Just because Eamon Ryan says it'll be 7 years before the TBM is under the Liffey doesn't mean it is true..

salmocab

jd wrote: »

Just because Eamon Ryan says it'll be 7 years before the TBM is under the Liffey doesn't mean it is true..

In fact I’d go as far as to say that if he’s saying it it’s definitely not true.

Kevtherev1

CatInABox wrote: »

2019: Railway Order Application.
2020: Application approval.
2021: Construction start.

This is the project timeline, back from before the delays surrounding the public consultation. At a guess, add at least six months on to each one.

Correct, at this stage now it will be Shovels in the ground approx Q1 2022. Completion December 2028. So all the delays it another extra year (2028) of gridlock in north dublin/ swords then they thought.


As i have said before metrolink has to be built this time, govt has run out of time, the costs and pressure of not doing it this time will be too high.

Kermit.de.frog

Don't forget the airport now handling in excess of 30 million passengers per year and no rail link.

It could handling in excess of 40 million before this would even open!

CatInABox

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't forget the airport now handling in excess of 30 million passengers per year and no rail link.

I kinda think that this is a bit of a pointless figure to be honest, those 30 million aren't getting to and from the airport, they're just changing planes.

A far betterAnother argument is just talking Swords, with it's absolutely chronic public transport. You can also safely discount anyone that talks about the Swords Express, you can guarantee that the person using it as a talking point doesn't use it to commute.

EDIT: I'll put my hands up here, I'd read the exact same info as talked about below, and come out with totally the wrong impression, sorry everyone!

Kermit.de.frog

Erm, 29.4 million of those passengers started or ended their journey at the airport.

Stephen Strange

CatInABox wrote: »

I kinda think that this is a bit of a pointless figure to be honest, those 30 million aren't getting to and from the airport, they're just changing planes.

A far better argument is just talking Swords, with it's absolutely chronic public transport. You can also safely discount anyone that talks about the Swords Express, you can guarantee that the person using it as a talking point doesn't use it to commute.

I don't get your argument. Out of 31.5m pax in 2018, only 1.6m were connecting passengers. That leaves 29.9m passenger journeys to and from Dublin Airport. DAA alone employ over 3000 people, which conservatively is over 500,000 journeys to/from the airport each year.

I'm not dismissing the point that a large focus on the fact that swords will be served should be highlighted, but the growth at the airport shouldn't be ignored either.

OT, but in my opinion, that's why a link to the Northern Line should be included in addition to Metrolink.

Kermit.de.frog

The crucial connection here is not Swords at all in my opinion, it's the airport. Swords is just a handy extension.