Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

1huge1

Neworder79 wrote: »

Mayo General has had ward closures in recent months, HSE proposing closing Limerick City's only A&E at night, so not as clear cut as you make out.

Exactly, I mean they are even considering closing the countries 3rd biggest cities A&E at night even after diverting all A&E from Ennis and Nenagh to it so its unfair to say that they are being biased.

Jack Noble

1huge1 wrote: »

Exactly, I mean they are even considering closing the countries 3rd biggest cities A&E at night even after diverting all A&E from Ennis and Nenagh to it so its unfair to say that they are being biased.

I was being a tad tongue in cheek - Health Minister Reilly is Metro's No 1 fan with it serving his constituency so he's unlikely to P off the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance in the short-term by touching hospitals on their patches.

But if you gotta explain....

bacon?

fresca wrote: »

where the hell are the AIB going to get the money to fund this? from the taxpayer? they can hardly squeeze much more out of us?

Sure they can... that's why I got the hell out of dodge!

FreudianSlippers

The hospital closures and MN are slightly apples and oranges (and slightly not).

Healthcare in this country is facing systemic failure because of a governmental mismanagement as well as a social failure to recognise the wood from the trees. I won't get into it because it's not the correct venue for a rant of this proportion.

One way there are similarities is that this type of attitude and backwards thinking exists in relation to infrastructure in this county as well. People seem to be stuck in the past in many ways of thinking and attempting to live in a modern world with views that are 50-100 years old.
I see it all the time with the "we have no money" attitude that is taken towards infrastructure development. What does that even mean? Of course we have money - money is arbitrary... the government doesn't have a wallet with cash in it of course, but the average person acts as if they do.
Money is there... we may not like the interest rate, but no countries really run on short term investments.

Also I think another poster earlier nailed it by saying that this country is like multiple countries in one... very narrow minded competition.

1huge1

Jack Noble wrote: »

I was being a tad tongue in cheek - Health Minister Reilly is Metro's No 1 fan with it serving his constituency so he's unlikely to P off the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance in the short-term by touching hospitals on their patches.

But if you gotta explain....

Jumped the gun there a bit didn't I :-)

Jack Noble

Metro North to be 'delayed' for a 'number of years' and 'rebranded', according to the latest Fingal Independent.

It reports that Luas BXD is likely to get the go-ahead in review of capital projects due to be announced in September.

Metro North, Dart Underground and possibly Metro West may then be rolled into a 'revised scheme' and rebranded.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/metro-rebrand-planned-2819980.html

METRO North is set to be delayed by a number of years, overhauled and rebranded, as the Government looks to deliver a light railway for north Dublin on its own merits.

The Fingal Independent can exclusively reveal the Fine Gael-Labour coalition is considering temporarily shelving the project, before proceeding with an inclusive revised scheme under a new name, which will incorporate the DART interconnector and possibly Metro West.

Of the three major rail projects currently under consideration, the connection of the Luas lines (BDX) is the likeliest to be given the goahead this September, when Transport Minister, Leo Varadkar, announces the results of a viability review, highly-placed sources have said.

We all know Metro and Dart are not going ahead any time soon but what do you all reckon about this kite from 'highly-placed sources'?

Obviously, we need to see more detail but a realistic plan that keeps Metro & Dart on the agenda and puts in place an achievable delivery schedule is much better than simply abandoning these schemes as was done in the 1980s, IMHO.
The Census 2011 figures of 1.27m people living in Dublin and 1.8m in the GDA certainly came as a shock to govt and many other people. On similar growth patterns over the next 20 years, the GDA is heading for a population of circa 2.5m by 2030, with Dublin looking at around 1.7m.

These figures and the growth pattern strengthen an already strong demographic case for Metro & Dart - especially as much of the growth was in the north and west Dublin areas not served by rapid rail, as well as out into counties Meath and Kildare.

D.L.R.

Jack Noble wrote: »

Metro North to be 'delayed' for a 'number of years' and 'rebranded', according to the latest Fingal Independent.

It reports that Luas BXD is likely to get the go-ahead in review of capital projects due to be announced in September.

Metro North, Dart Underground and possibly Metro West may then be rolled into a 'revised scheme' and rebranded.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/metro-rebrand-planned-2819980.html



We all know Metro and Dart are not going ahead any time soon but what do you all reckon about this kite from 'highly-placed sources'?

Obviously, we need to see more detail but a realistic plan that keeps Metro & Dart on the agenda and puts in place an achievable delivery schedule is much better than simply abandoning these schemes as was done in the 1980s, IMHO.
The Census 2011 figures of 1.27m people living in Dublin and 1.8m in the GDA certainly came as a shock to govt and many other people. On similar growth patterns over the next 20 years, the GDA is heading for a population of circa 2.5m by 2030, with Dublin looking at around 1.7m.

These figures and the growth pattern strengthen an already strong demographic case for Metro & Dart - especially as much of the growth was in the north and west Dublin areas not served by rapid rail, as well as out into counties Meath and Kildare.

Hmm.. well if BXD goes ahead (seems to be the way the wind's blowing), then there's at least a chance to revisit the duplicate section of the Metro from Parnell-SSG.

This duplication was not actually intended, it just happened as a result of carelessness and bad planning. No need to pursue that, ahem, "vision" now.

Crayons out lads..

Cathaoirleach

as the Government looks to deliver a light railway for north Dublin on its own merits.

I wonder will they extend BXD to include Finglas?

monument

D.L.R. wrote: »

Hmm.. well if BXD goes ahead (seems to be the way the wind's blowing), then there's at least a chance to revisit the duplicate section of the Metro from Parnell-SSG.

This duplication was not actually intended, it just happened as a result of carelessness and bad planning. No need to pursue that, ahem, "vision" now.

Crayons out lads..

Regardless of the chances of anything going ahead or not... Can we please stop this duplicate being an issue nonsence?

First, it's normal to have this (or larger) crossover in city centres.

The duplicate is exactly where you'd expect -- the main areas of the city centre on the northside and the southside, including at interchanges for Luas Red Line and with Dart at the Green.

The planned on-street tram and underground light railway lines are a bit diffrent in their stops and go to completely diffrent places.

DWCommuter

As I continually say, here goes a reinvention of the wheel all over again.

METRO North is set to be delayed by a number of years, overhauled and rebranded, as the Government looks to deliver a light railway for north Dublin on its own merits.

The Fingal Independent can exclusively reveal the Fine Gael-Labour coalition is considering temporarily shelving the project, before proceeding with an inclusive revised scheme under a new name, which will incorporate the DART interconnector and possibly Metro West.

Of the three major rail projects currently under consideration, the connection of the Luas lines (BDX) is the likeliest to be given the goahead this September, when Transport Minister, Leo Varadkar, announces the results of a viability review, highly-placed sources have said.

Buck Rogers will be swinging by O'Connell street before there's a Metro under it.

DWCommuter

Jack Noble wrote: »

Obviously, we need to see more detail but a realistic plan that keeps Metro & Dart on the agenda and puts in place an achievable delivery schedule is much better than simply abandoning these schemes as was done in the 1980s, IMHO.

If this is solid info, then it is effectively an abandonment of the projects under a more palatable guise.

bk

I'm concerned that building Luas BXD will make it more difficult to build Metro North in future, as the MN stations on O'Connell St go under the Luas BXD lines.

Either the MN stations on O'Connell St need to be built as part of the Luas BXD project or the alternative LUAS BXD route of going both up and down Marlborough St should be chosen *.

I'm in favour for of the later for other reasons, it will help regenerate Marlborough St, reduces the cost of doubling up of infrastructure, minimises impact on the main streets and bus services, interconnects with DART at Pearse and avoids the overhead wire issue in front of Dublin cities most important and historic buildings, at the GPO and College Green.

lods

I think Metro North (or whatever new name they use )will never be built. You can't delay something like this. They'll have to re tender all over again. Its a wa of FG worming out of cancelling it.

BluntGuy

bk wrote: »

I'm concerned that building Luas BXD will make it more difficult to build Metro North in future, as the MN stations on O'Connell St go under the Luas BXD lines.

If they proceed with BXD without building the Station boxes then it can pretty much be taken as confirmation that they have no serious intention to ever build MN. All the bodies involved, including Leo I'm sure, absolutely know that BXD would reduce MN's prospects (at least in its current form) to nearly 0. The "Fingal Independent" isn't exactly a bastion of reliability but I wouldn't put it past the government/DoT to attempt to dress up cancellation as something else.

I have my own feelings about which, if any, project from the "big three/four" will be selected though.

D.L.R.

monument wrote: »

Regardless of the chances of anything going ahead or not... Can we please stop this duplicate being an issue nonsence?

First, it's normal to have this (or larger) crossover in city centres.

The duplicate is exactly where you'd expect -- the main areas of the city centre on the northside and the southside, including at interchanges for Luas Red Line and with Dart at the Green.

The planned on-street tram and underground light railway lines are a bit diffrent in their stops and go to completely diffrent places.

- Whats nonsense is building two identical routes through the city, and sorry mate but I won't stop criticising it just cos you asked nice

- BXD/MN isn't a crossover, its a duplication. Its the legacy of bad planning in the original luas era, not an actual "plan".

- It might be normal to have two services sharing a route, like for example in Frankfurt or Copenhagen. But building two identical routes one on top of the other. Well thats just... uniquely Irish, lets say.

monument

Which one would you move? Where to? Why would you move it away from the OCS and SSG areas?

Zebra3

Looks like it's BXD.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/euro15m-liffey-bridge-will-go-ahead-varadkar-2820460.html

€15m Liffey bridge will go ahead -- Varadkar

By Cormac Murphy

Wednesday July 13 2011

WORK will start on a new €15m bridge across the Liffey this year despite the financial crisis.

Transport Minister Leo Varadkar said the bridge, linking Marlborough Street to Hawkins Street in Dublin city centre, will be built.

The structure, to be located just downstream of O'Connell Bridge, will carry buses as well as the Luas and cyclists.

It is to be paid for as part of the Public Transport Capital Expenditure programme for 2011.

Mr Varadkar made the revelation at a Select Committee Meeting on Environment, Transport, Culture and the Gaeltacht.

The project was due to begin in late 2009 but was delayed as a result of funding concerns.

It is hoped the bridge will transform a neglected area of the capital, opening up new retail opportunities.

The project will incorporate flood protection walls, which double up as public seating and planters for flower displays.

Victor

I don't know what is proposed, but I was told about 3 years ago that Metro North would likely operate under the Luas brand when it opens. Even in the legislation "Metro" is a rather fuzzy entity.

The bridge is needed anyway as it frees up O'Connell Bridge (the right turns on OCB will be removed).

BluntGuy

Zebra3 wrote: »

Looks like it's BXD.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/euro15m-liffey-bridge-will-go-ahead-varadkar-2820460.html

A large part of the reason the bridge was to be forwarded so fast, as far as I remember was so that it could be used during Metro North's construction. Now don't get me wrong I'm hardly saying that Metro North is likely to go ahead, just that I don't think you can come to the conclusion that BXD will be the selected project from this particular news.

D.L.R.

monument wrote: »

Which one would you move? Where to? Why would you move it away from the OCS and SSG areas?

Which one to change? Well if BXD gets built, then obviously MN.

Where to? You could send MN to Tara or Pearse, linking it to both dart lines instead of just one.

Why? Better interchange options.

Look at a map. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

lods

D.L.R. wrote: »

Which one to change? Well if BXD gets built, then obviously MN.

Where to? You could send MN to Tara or Pearse, linking it to both dart lines instead of just one.

Why? Better interchange options.

Look at a map. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

if you include Hueston you don't need Dart underground

chooochooo

BluntGuy wrote: »

If they proceed with BXD without building the Station boxes then it can pretty much be taken as confirmation that they have no serious intention to ever build MN. All the bodies involved, including Leo I'm sure, absolutely know that BXD would reduce MN's prospects (at least in its current form) to nearly 0. The "Fingal Independent" isn't exactly a bastion of reliability but I wouldn't put it past the government/DoT to attempt to dress up cancellation as something else.

I have my own feelings about which, if any, project from the "big three/four" will be selected though.

Endless ignorance/confusion from our great moderator.
The O'Connell Bridge station is to be mined out from below.
Putting down Luas tracks on OCS not an issue.

gjim

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Money is there... we may not like the interest rate, but no countries really run on short term investments.

The interest on Irish government 10 year money is veering toward credit card style levels. That's if the state was lucky enough to find someone to lend it money. A number of European government bond issues have notably failed in the last few years and that's with countries that were selling debt which wasn't rated junk like ours is. With this new Moody's rating, Irish government debt will be untouchable to most of the big swinging dick investors like pension funds, charitable trusts, sovereign wealth funds, the treasuries of retail banks, etc.

So no, unfortunately, money isn't there. Except in the way that a bankrupt individual appears to have money because they continue to drive around in a flash BMW for a month or two just before it gets repoed for the arrears on the finance.

chooochooo

gjim wrote: »

The interest on Irish government 10 year money is veering toward credit card style levels. That's if the state was lucky enough to find someone to lend it money. A number of European government bond issues have notably failed in the last few years and that's with countries that were selling debt which wasn't rated junk like ours is. With this new Moody's rating, Irish government debt will be untouchable to most of the big swinging dick investors like pension funds, charitable trusts, sovereign wealth funds, the treasuries of retail banks, etc.

So no, unfortunately, money isn't there. Except in the way that a bankrupt individual appears to have money because they continue to drive around in a flash BMW for a month or two just before it gets repoed for the arrears on the finance.

the amount of spoofing on this thread is laughable.
it's not at all inconceivable that the winner consortium will be able to raise the capital at cheaper rates than Irish Gov bonds if the lenders feel that the project makes business sense.
and the consortia have said as much recently.

monument

D.L.R. wrote: »

Where to? You could send MN to Tara or Pearse, linking it to both dart lines instead of just one.

Why? Better interchange options.

Not worth it.

Tara is just north of 300m away, it'd be cheaper to build an underground travelator between one of the planned O'Connell Bridge stop exits to Tara (as suggested by metrobest ? a few years ago) than it would be to replan the route.

Pearse is out of the way.

NuMarvel

Won't Metro North interchange with both DART lines at Stephen's Green and Drumcondra respectively?

(Assuming both are built.)

BluntGuy

chooochooo wrote: »

Endless ignorance/confusion from our great moderator.
The O'Connell Bridge station is to be mined out from below.
Putting down Luas tracks on OCS not an issue.

I'm getting fed up of your unnecessarily abrasive posting, which has been noted on several occasions before. Cut the personal remarks or you'll be enjoying a month ban.

How are the miners going to get underground to mine out the platforms pray tell? Are they going to teleport there?

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Metro%20North/Metro%20North%20RO%20Oral%20Hearing%20Evidence/MN%20RO%20Oral%20Hearing%20Evidence%20070409/MN%20OH%20Pres%20Const%20Seq%20John%20Mc%20L%20080409%20Part%202.pdf

chooochooo

They will mine out the station from the TBM below.

Allah help us.

murphaph

chooochooo wrote: »

They will mine out the station from the TBM below.

Allah help us.

Even with mined stations, signifcant street level disruption can be expected. You can't build the accesses and ventilation shafts etc. without breaking the surface. They'll also need to provide emergency exits to street level. Don't think they'll be able to build the O'Connell Bridge Station without major traffic management. Having a new bridge nearby could really help that traffic management.

Jack Noble

murphaph wrote: »

Even with mined stations, signifcant street level disruption can be expected. You can't build the accesses and ventilation shafts etc. without breaking the surface. They'll also need to provide emergency exits to street level. Don't think they'll be able to build the O'Connell Bridge Station without major traffic management. Having a new bridge nearby could really help that traffic management.

I would think there will be more than enough room on OCS to dig the metro station box without disrupting the Luas service if BXD is built first.

SSG, however, is a different matter entirely. Given that double Luas tracks will run directly over where Metro and Dart stations will be, I can't see how they can dig out that deep-level station box without disprupting Luas.

Also, the Dart-Metro station will be a single project carried out as part of the Metro North works. IE will be paying the RPA to carry out this work.

Finally, there is something few here and elsewhere seem to be considering - what orders ABP makes when it isses the BXD railway order.

Has anyone, including Leo V, considered what happens if ABP insists that the Metro/Dart and Metro stations on SSG and OCS respectively are carried out as part of BXD works - especially since MN actually has an RO at this stage and DU's RO isn't far behind?