Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Kitsunegari

Does anyone have a better snippet of the article?

marno21

Tender gone out for a "concept architect" for New Metro North.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=110756&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

jd

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Does anyone have a better snippet of the article?

Here's some excerpts

prunudo

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/donohoe-pledges-fast-track-e2-3-billion-metro-north-plan-384646

Donohue confirms that more money will be spent on the redesigned Metro North, with less tunnelling and fewer stations, to get it to construction quicker. Meanwhile, a more functional Metro North with planning permission sits idle. Sigh.

I can't understand why there isn't more uproar about this. Shame some of the papers aren't reporting the fact that there is already planning for a Metro in place.

murphaph

marno21 wrote: »

Tender gone out for a "concept architect" for New Metro North.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=110756&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Here we go again.

Should be grabbing the Brexit bull by the horns and proving to potential businesses that we are serious about being a real country with infrastructure becoming of a capital city trying to attract leading financial institutions.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/donohoe-pledges-fast-track-e2-3-billion-metro-north-plan-384646

Donohue confirms that more money will be spent on the redesigned Metro North, with less tunnelling and fewer stations, to get it to construction quicker. Meanwhile, a more functional Metro North with planning permission sits idle. Sigh.

Does fewer stations now mean in a few years after its built we will be back building these stations?

Avada

roadmaster wrote: »

Does fewer stations now mean in a few years after its built we will be back building these stations?

Probably, a twice the cost...

Consonata

Imagine the people building the Underground in London had the same attitude as these twits :P

Avada

Consonata wrote: »

Imagine the people building the Underground in London had the same attitude as these twits :P

Crossrail would be a BRT that runs on daysul and takes 6 and a half hours to cross London

strassenwo!f

murphaph wrote: »

Here we go again.

Should be grabbing the Brexit bull by the horns and proving to potential businesses that we are serious about being a real country with infrastructure becoming of a capital city trying to attract leading financial institutions.

Too late, unfortunately, if quality of public transport is going to be a major factor in the decisions of these large firms.

No bank is going to choose Dublin over other cities in Europe (e.g Frankfurt, Paris or Luxembourg) because public transport is better in Dublin. They can't, because it's quite simply not.

They might choose Dublin for other factors (though I doubt that they will, in the main).

Although nobody could have envisaged Brexit at the time, the time for developing public tansport options to make Dublin a realistic option, for banks leaving Britain now, was back at the start of the millennium, when we had (poor as they were) things like the DTO 'platform for change' crayon plan and Martin Cullen's T21 stunt.

Unfortunately, almost nothing of either of those schemes has been implemented in the intervening 12-17 years. I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope that the process is going to get much quicker to accomodate Foreign banks.

Arthur Daley

After the last ten years we've been through you would think the last thing we need is a rake more foreign banks using the place as a flag of convenience.

In all seriousness the economy needs to broaden out, and we deserve good public transport links irrespective of firms moving out of london.
Metro north and about 6 other lines should be developed over 20 years. Lock in the low interest rates (ringfenced for very specific capital spending only) while they continue to be available.

MJohnston

Let's be clear - businesses considering relocating to Dublin care very little about our public transport infrastructure directly.

What most of them care about is (a) affordability of commercial space for themselves (b) affordability of residential space to attract new and relocating workers. It happens that the latter of those two things is something very closely correlated with Dublin's poor state of PT infra, but there are multiple points of attack for residential affordability and PT is just one of those.

murphaph

I agree entirely but a city can really sell an underground system under construction as a strong selling point.

Dublin has land banks aplenty, detailed plans to develop them and detailed plans how to connect them to the city. You could live in Clonburris and be in the Docklands in 20 minutes. Most ordinary level banking staff in London can only dream of such a short commute. As can most Dubs presently but anyway.

Dublin is also technically easy to tunnel under (where DU and MN would run at least).

It's just we can't let Dublin have anything for fear of upsetting some rural (not all) voters. Now we live to regret this policy of the Dail.

random_guy

I see Metro Dublin gets a mention in the latest edition of Eurotransport:

http://email.eurotransportmagazine.com/c/1j3VjPHHMly4TTncRTvsVPFe

Registration is probably needed to get it. Page 49/50 with Cormac Rabbitt.

cormac616

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/competitions/competition-new-metro-north-dublin/10019157.article


TII has put it out to tender, all hopes crushed of original MN id say. Don't see why they can't use the old designs for the stations but maybe they will look better this time.

Consonata

random_guy wrote: »

I see Metro Dublin gets a mention in the latest edition of Eurotransport:

http://email.eurotransportmagazine.com/c/1j3VjPHHMly4TTncRTvsVPFe

Registration is probably needed to get it. Page 49/50 with Cormac Rabbitt.

yannakis

The lines already have colors, why are they messing it up? :pac:

Interesting to see the extend of their ambitions, Ashbourne on the map too!

Zebra3

The article claims about progress?

The bloody project is regressing!!!!! :mad:

BonnieSituation

This is a completely different project. It's from a private consortium and nothing to do with TII's project.

http://www.metrodublin.ie/index.htm

dublinman1990

Well. I just had a look at the Metro Dublin website. It was intriguing to say the least by having a look at the proposal.

I was amazed with some of the figures being listed for Metro Dublin when compared with the shelved plans for MN & DU.

http://www.metrodublin.ie/index_files/MetroDublincomparedwiththeshelvedplansforMetroNorthDARTUnderground.htm

This is a seperate beast of a project built with private sector consortium funding when in construction. It appears that this the big project that is going to take over from the construction of the original MN. It does sound like if Metro Dublin goes ahead with the consortium; the two previous projects will now be put off for good. If that officially happens; it does sound like a kick in the teeth that two major projects designed with using billions of taxpayers money involved in planning MN & possibly leaving us with a reduced or different DU. DU is still planned to be built if Metro Dublin exists; but DU could be the biggest loser if it does get eventually built in some form. It could be drawn up again & built to a completely different layout in the future. It will be inevitable that there will be a lot of criticism from all sides of the political fold & the electorate in some shape or form.

It does sound sensible that this project has the potential to be very big for Dublin. But that is on condition that the consortium in place for the project has literally endless pots of money to get this new project over the line & get it finished. But I wonder who is going to be the consortium to get this project together & have it open for the public to use.

It does appear to be an interesting project for all who live in Dublin.

If some or all of Metro Dublin was built for real; it will be great to have it to begin the future foundations of a functioning city for Dublin.

Consonata

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Well. I just had a look at the Metro Dublin website. It was intriguing to say the least by having a look at the proposal.

I was amazed with some of the figures being listed for Metro Dublin when compared with the shelved plans for MN & DU.

http://www.metrodublin.ie/index_files/MetroDublincomparedwiththeshelvedplansforMetroNorthDARTUnderground.htm

This is a seperate beast of a project built with private sector consortium funding when in construction. It appears that this the big project that is going to take over from the construction of the original MN. It does sound like if Metro Dublin goes ahead with the consortium; the two previous projects will now be put off for good. If that officially happens; it does sound like a kick in the teeth that two major projects designed with using billions of taxpayers money involved in planning MN & possibly leaving us with a reduced or different DU. DU is still planned to be built if Metro Dublin exists; but DU could be the biggest loser if it does get eventually built in some form. It could be drawn up again & built to a completely different layout in the future. It will be inevitable that there will be a lot of criticism from all sides of the political fold & the electorate in some shape or form.

It does sound sensible that this project has the potential to be very big for Dublin. But that is on condition that the consortium in place for the project has literally endless pots of money to get this new project over the line & get it finished. But I wonder who is going to be the consortium to get this project together & have it open for the public to use.

It does appear to be an interesting project for all who live in Dublin.

If some or all of Metro Dublin was built for real; it will be great to have it to begin the future foundations of a functioning city for Dublin.

Is there any actual likelihood of it being pushed through though? as opposed to MN where we have a (relatively) hard date on.

jd

Consonata wrote: »

Is there any actual likelihood of it being pushed through though? as opposed to MN where we have a (relatively) hard date on.

No, it was ruled out before

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Appraisal_Report_19112014_final1.pdf

HR10, the “Metro Dublin”, has been rejected on the basis of technical feasibility particularly
in relation to measures required to integrate the scheme between St James’ Hospital and
Heuston Station. Concerns were also raised in relation to the use of Phoenix Park Tunnel.
However, there are strengths to the proposed alignment and as such a similar alignment,
HR8, is brought forward to the next stage of the study for further development and appraisal;

noelfirl

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is a completely different project. It's from a private consortium and nothing to do with TII's project.

http://www.metrodublin.ie/index.htm

"Private consortium" gives it too much credence - it's one man and his dog.

Without wanting to be disrespectful, it is really just one step beyond crayoning on a map.

expectationlost

Fingal Gazette mocking itself now

headlines is Metro North is back on track - again https://issuu.com/robheigh/docs/fingal_32f64f5c495cb8 becuase there were fears it was on the back burner according to Alan Farrell http://alanfarrell.ie/?p=3345

so its not being fastracked but its not on the back burner...?

LeinsterDub

Ross quoted as saying gridlock to potentially cost up to 2 billion a year. So of course let's have a penny pitching NMN.

expectationlost

High-Level Seminar On Metro North http://www.northcountyleader.ie/2017/05/02/high-level-seminar-on-metro-north/

County Mayor, Cllr. Darragh Butler will host a high-level seminar in County Hall, Swords, on Monday, 8th May to discuss the merits of accelerating the development of Metro North, from Swords to the Airport and onto the City Centre.

how?

The seminar will be attended by key stakeholders from across the Dublin region, as well as representatives from Government Departments and national agencies such as the National Transport Authority.

Grandeeod

expectationlost wrote: »

High-Level Seminar On Metro North http://www.northcountyleader.ie/2017/05/02/high-level-seminar-on-metro-north/ how?

Heard the same crap 14 years ago and no doubt I will in 14 years time.

Dr Crayfish

So nothing is happening with this project? Nothing set in stone yet? I can't for the life of me understand how they expect our economy to grow and for thousands of new houses to be built if we have no public transport. If the roads get any more clogged it'll be just impossible to get around anywhere. This needs to be sorted out, it could do serious damage to the city if they don't put something in place, fast.

Peregrine

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So nothing is happening with this project? Nothing set in stone yet? I can't for the life of me understand how they expect our economy to grow and for thousands of new houses to be built if we have no public transport. If the roads get any more clogged it'll be just impossible to get around anywhere. This needs to be sorted out, it could do serious damage to the city if they don't put something in place, fast.

The only thing set in stone is that we're going back to the drawing board again after, what, a few decades of planning and consultations and finally arriving at a plan.

strassenwo!f

Going back to the drawing board was inevitable because of the way the RPA (and the Department of Transport) managed the project.

The RPA had an initial consultation, with three potential routes between St. Stephen's Green and Swords. They subsequently - presumably based on their the own studies and the input from the public at those consultations - then created a new route, which was pretty much a mixture of two of the original routes.

The key thing here is that there was never any proper consultation on this final route selected by the RPA, to work out tweaks to the route and the stations and maybe to attempt to deal with a couple of the howlers which the RPA came up with on this final route, the most notable probably being the proposed two O'Connell Bridge stations.

It is, in my opinion, a shocking indictment of Irish planning that a project of such importance should not have received detailed public scrutiny in the form of a proper public consultation of the final, chosen route, before it went to An Bord Pleanala. And it didn't.

Grandeeod

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Going back to the drawing board was inevitable because of the way the RPA (and the Department of Transport) managed the project.

The RPA had an initial consultation, with three potential routes between St. Stephen's Green and Swords. They subsequently - presumably based on their the own studies and the input from the public at those consultations - then created a new route, which was pretty much a mixture of two of the original routes.

The key thing here is that there was never any proper consultation on this final route selected by the RPA, to work out tweaks to the route and the stations and maybe to attempt to deal with a couple of the howlers which the RPA came up with on this final route, the most notable probably being the proposed two O'Connell Bridge stations.

It is, in my opinion, a shocking indictment of Irish planning that a project of such importance should not have received detailed public scrutiny in the form of a proper public consultation of the final, chosen route, before it went to An Bord Pleanala. And it didn't.

Going back to the drawing board was yet another example of a political fudge and absolutely nothing to do with anything else in your post. And please don't try to tell me that bad management from the RPA or the DOT is related to political fudging.

murphaph

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Going back to the drawing board was inevitable because of the way the RPA (and the Department of Transport) managed the project.

The RPA had an initial consultation, with three potential routes between St. Stephen's Green and Swords. They subsequently - presumably based on their the own studies and the input from the public at those consultations - then created a new route, which was pretty much a mixture of two of the original routes.

The key thing here is that there was never any proper consultation on this final route selected by the RPA, to work out tweaks to the route and the stations and maybe to attempt to deal with a couple of the howlers which the RPA came up with on this final route, the most notable probably being the proposed two O'Connell Bridge stations.

It is, in my opinion, a shocking indictment of Irish planning that a project of such importance should not have received detailed public scrutiny in the form of a proper public consultation of the final, chosen route, before it went to An Bord Pleanala. And it didn't.

Still wouldn't have been built. I'd have taken the route as planned any day and would gladly take it now still!

marno21

New Metro North public consultation in 2018:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/public-consultation-on-new-metro-north-soon-35670312.html

LeinsterDub

'I am pleased that the Metro North project is progressing

Quite the case of newspeak. Going back to the start is progress?

Consonata

Hearing "public consultation" is like hearing that there will be a "public inquiry" in other fields.

They have the plans, they are approved by An Bord Pleanala. It's just a matter of making the leap and footing the bill for the project. Yet we talk more and in doing so, waste the savings they are looking to find in paying for these public consultations. I'd wager the amount of money we've paid for public consultations, roughly equals the difference in cost between the originally designed MN and the so called "optimised" version...

Dr_Bill

marno21 wrote: »

New Metro North public consultation in 2018:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/public-consultation-on-new-metro-north-soon-35670312.html

Anyone seen the can? Must have got a fair old hoof down the road!

So we are looking at say 12-18 months public consultation, another year before the route is "finalised" and then start the design process and bring in the Engineering consultants for anther 2-3 years and then start the tender process say another two years to say nothing of the time to take to build it, that's two election cycles then we can have another review... meanwhile nothing will get built and traffic on the M50 will be horrendous. You got to love our public representatives.

murphaph

The electorate don't view public transport infrastructure as a priority, otherwise all this stuff would be done already.

LeinsterDub

murphaph wrote: »

The electorate don't view public transport infrastructure as a priority, otherwise all this stuff would be done already.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1149453811827264&id=502689826503669
Tell Alan you're not happy

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1149453811827264&id=502689826503669
Tell Alan you're not happy

Someone already has.

LeinsterDub

marno21 wrote: »

Someone already has.

If more people are calling out his bull**** he may actually listen

Grandeeod

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1149453811827264&id=502689826503669
Tell Alan you're not happy

Yet another politician talking crap and making crap responses to the obvious on social media.

Nothing will be built. The general public don't care. But my biggest concern is the fact that those who do actually care, don't like hearng about why it won't be built. Not all, but some. I am of the opinion that anyone who cares about building MN should spend more time being critical of the Government and politicians in general as opposed to being part of the continual crayonism and consultation BS. We've done this already.

Chivito550

Have posted a reply myself, though I doubt he'll even read it.

LeinsterDub

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/metro-north-works-will-not-start-before-2021-says-nta-1.3075898

Asked about the potential to have the 17km line in place before the notional deadline of 2026-2027, Mr Creegan said: “We may be able to shave some months off it as we go along, but I don’t want to promise that we can shave years off it. I don’t believe that’s possible.”

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/metro-north-works-will-not-start-before-2021-says-nta-1.3075898

It is possible.

As we all know.

MJohnston

I think his point is that it's not possible if they have to redo all of the initial steps that were already done.

Zebra3

Embarrassing stuff from some FF clown in that IT piece.

Peregrine

It's not possible with a new plan but it is possible with the original plan. It's just a matter of paying up.

It was decided that it will be a new plan though. Why or by whom, I'm still not sure.

annfield1978

NTA want to relook at the plan and value engineer it. Kicks the can down the road as they have no money for bus corridors never mind serious infrastructure

The amount of design that goes onto a shelf is ridiculous

LeinsterDub

annfield1978 wrote: »

NTA want to relook at the plan and value engineer it. Kicks the can down the road as they have no money for bus corridors never mind serious infrastructure

The amount of design that goes onto a shelf is ridiculous

European is giving away money and Alan Farrell has said that the Minster for Transport has indicated money isn't an issue.

So that just leaves a complete and total lack of political will as the issue

Consonata

Alan Farrell responded RE: Abandoning the old model of Metro North

https://www.facebook.com/alanfarrelltd/posts/1149453811827264?comment_id=1149636511808994&reply_comment_id=1158728704233108&ref=notif&notif_t=share_reply&notif_id=1494337045669758

we decided to depart from the former proposal on cost grounds shortly after the election in 2011. It is not in dispute that had we proceeded, it would have consumed circa 75% of the then Departmental budget which would have severly effected road, rail and bus services over a period of many years. The revised proposal is significantly cheaper and will result in faster journey times. It is also being built with capacity in mind in that it can be upraded to cater for greater demands as projected 15/20 years post completion, if memory serves. All this information in on the NTA website.

The previous plan has been dumped. We won't be returning to it. That decision was made five years ago.

*facedesk*