Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Dardania

MJohnston wrote: »

I think there are things higher on any base shopping list:
+ Pool of hiring talent
+ Internet infrastructure
+ Safety
+ Tax considerations
+ Housing affordability

But I think the first in the list really outbalances everything else in it - I doubt London would be high on many companies' lists otherwise!

True (on London, and the pool of hiring talent also) - for a pool of hiring talent, you need to go to a location which is attractive for them to live in, in order to have that pool

plodder

MJohnston wrote: »

I'm as annoyed at this project being setback as anyone, but I have to laugh at the idea of US tech companies pulling out of a country because of poor infrastructure - have any of you ever been in Silicon Valley? Worst. Infrastructure. Ever.

In terms of public transport yes, but they made a conscious decision to rely on roads in the US for the most part, and while they are severely congested a lot of the time, don't forget the area has a population of 4-6 million that has developed only in a matter of decades. I work for a US MNC and we've had plenty of non-Irish working for us who jump at the opportunity (when it arises) to move to Silicon valley. What matters is the whole package, which includes things we can't control, like climate obviously, but also things we can control, like transport.

MJohnston

plodder wrote: »

In terms of public transport yes, but they made a conscious decision to rely on roads in the US for the most part, and while they are severely congested a lot of the time, don't forget the area has a population of 4-6 million that has developed only in a matter of decades. I work for a US MNC and we've had plenty of non-Irish working for us who jump at the opportunity (when it arises) to move to Silicon valley. What matters is the whole package, which includes things we can't control, like climate obviously, but also things we can control, like transport.

Climate and money in my experience (I relocated there for 18 months, came back because I hated it)

spuddy

MJohnston wrote: »

Possibly - I think public transport is something they care not at all about - what IS an issue is affordable housing, and a forward looking public transport plan would be one good part of a multi-pronged approach to solving that crisis.

I'd agree with that, it's part of the solution, which is why cancelling DU and long fingering MN over tax cuts & Christmas bonuses seem so very short sighted.

murphaph

spuddy wrote: »

I'd agree with that, it's part of the solution, which is why cancelling DU and long fingering MN over tax cuts & Christmas bonuses seem so very short sighted.

Not short sighted at all when your vision only extends to the next election. It's all quite intentional this. The Dail politicians know perfectly well that the infrastructure would be better for the city (and even the country) long term, but they simply don't care about that. They only care about hitting the quota at the next election.

Idbatterim

Not short sighted at all when your vision only extends to the next election. It's all quite intentional this. The Dail politicians know perfectly well that the infrastructure would be better for the city (and even the country) long term, but they simply don't care about that. They only care about hitting the quota at the next election.

They should re-secure power then do what they know it right, rather than what they choose to do, to maintain power. I was reading on another thread, the insanity of traffic from M1 - M50 as far down as Sandyford...

One person coming from North Co. Dublin said when luas cross city is finished, he will get dart to Tara Street, then walk a minute or two to Trinity stop, then luas to Sandyford Business park...

over tax cuts & Christmas bonuses seem so very short sighted.

in terms of re-securing election, that christmas bonus in nothing compared to buy offs of previous years (not that I agree with it) and I totally agree with cutting taxes, but the only one I would be cutting is the ridiculous marginal rate...

Bray Head

I've migrated to and from Ireland several times. There are lots of things you weigh up. For me public transport is always a relevant factor. When considering Dublin I've always had to live somewhere within cycling distance to work because public transport is so poor.

All else equal it also drives up the cost of housing, which is part of overall competitiveness.

plodder

I don't think it's an accident that the two best known tech companies in Dublin (google and facebook) are both within spitting distance of the DART.

MJohnston

plodder wrote: »

I don't think it's an accident that the two best known tech companies in Dublin (google and facebook) are both within spitting distance of the DART.

I work in one of them and while it's probably why the "Digital Docklands" sprung up around here (as well as the availability of land), I'd estimate a good 90% of the workforce here live within 5-10 minutes walk.

monument

MJohnston wrote: »

I work in one of them and while it's probably why the "Digital Docklands" sprung up around here (as well as the availability of land), I'd estimate a good 90% of the workforce here live within 5-10 minutes walk.

Is here one company or the Docklands?

If it's one company, fine. I'm not going to argue with you without knowing the company better.

But if 'here' is the Docklands overall, there's no way even close to 90% of the workforce there lives less than a 16 minute walk away. I'm guessing that the Census data supports my position but I don't have time to look right now, so I'm open to correction.

MJohnston

monument wrote: »

Is here one company or the Docklands?

If it's one company, fine. I'm not going to argue with you without knowing the company better.

But if 'here' is the Docklands overall, there's no way even close to 90% of the workforce there lives less than a 16 minute walk away. I'm guessing that the Census data supports my position but I don't have time to look right now, so I'm open to correction.

Sorry, the second 'here' referred to one of the Silicon Valley companies mentioned as not liking Dublin's transport infrastructure. I suspect most of the employees from the non techy companies in the Docklands probably live much further out.

MrMorooka

If Facebook and Google want to waste their money paying employees larger salaries to pay over-inflated rents to greedy landlords in the Docklands so they can live in their little bubble, more power to them. But that's not an option for most companies and employees, so we need to address public transport.

MJohnston

MrMorooka wrote: »

If Facebook and Google want to waste their money paying employees larger salaries to pay over-inflated rents to greedy landlords in the Docklands so they can live in their little bubble, more power to them. But that's not an option for most companies and employees, so we need to address public transport.

You've kind of missed the point of what I was trying to say tbh if this is addressed at me - aside from the fact that companies like those absolutely do not pay larger salaries compared to their long-establish software counterparts such as IBM, Microsoft, etc. What I'm saying is that a lack of public transport isn't going to discourage tech startups from setting up in Dublin, what will do that is lack of office space and lack of affordable accomodation for employees. And to address that problem, we absolutely need better PT.

1huge1

Came across this today, nothing new here really but I still don't see how they can justify there being no construction for another 6 years.

http://www.northcountyleader.ie/2015/12/08/date-set-for-start-of-metro-project/

North County Leader - Date set for start of metro project

The County Leader can exclusively confirm that construction of the much sought after Metro North Rail project will definitely go ahead, with a definite start date confirmed.

Transport Minister, Paschal Donohoe was at a Fingal Dublin Chamber breakfast at the Radisson Blu Hotel at Dublin Airport, in the company of local Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Dr James Reilly. In a private interview with this newspaper, Ministers Donohoe and Reilly confirmed that 2021 is the date when the first sod will be turned, provided that the present Government are returned to power in the upcoming general election.

This is the first concrete commitment by Government to the delivery of Metro North. During his speech earlier that morning, Minister Donohoe was noncommittal about a date for the commencement of Metro North, saying that it was difficult to pin down. During his speech, he said that nothing would happen before 2017, as there were issues like the Railway Order, which is a complicated planning project, as well as tendering, amongst other considerations.

This all changed when this reporter asked him, in a private interview after the event, whether hard pressed commuters in the North County, who have endured promises from successive Governments over the years could be guaranteed delivery of Metro North. Minister Donohoe replied by saying, “Yes, Metro North will definitely happen. It will be funded by the Exchequer. If we have a period of economic growth and political stability, I believe we will have a Metro project. This is a commitment I can give, but there are assumptions underneath it, regarding our economy. However, I firmly believe that the best project is Metro North. When asked if the country slipped back into recession, as this is a 12 year project, would it affect the delivery of Metro, the Minister said that this is
the case in all projects. It was then that he confirmed that construction of Metro North will happen in 2021.

Local Minister Dr James Reilly, who was in the company of Minister Donohoe when the date was confirmed, told the County Leader; “This is great news further confirming the Government’s commitment. The timeline is both real and realistic and it’s great news for people and businesses in Swords and the greater North County area.”

“Connectivity to the city is critical to further growth and prosperity of the North County. Metro North provides accessibility to the city for our young people to pursue their education. It also provides accessibility for visitors to enjoy what Fingal has to offer, with the largest number of tourists entering Dublin Airport since the peak in 2008. The opportunities for Fingal tourism are clear,” he said.

He continued: “This project is now made possible because of the focus of this Government on creating jobs and that focus will continue with more jobs and greater geographical spread across Fingal and beyond. We’re determined that these will be good jobs that pay more than welfare, with less people attending welfare means having more tax collection for the exchequer, meaning more funding for transport infrastructural projects such as Metro North.”

Reilly went on to say; “I have been committed to Metro North from the start and though we found ourselves in the worst financial catastrophe, I fought to have this project to not be scrapped and to get it back on track. I’m delighted to be able to thank Minister Donohoe for confirming the sod will be turned during the lifetime of the next Government in 2021, if we’re returned to power,” he concluded.

LeinsterDub

I'll belive it when it's written into the constitution or they turn a sod. Until then I believe nothing

Grandeeod

Let me highlight the get out clauses that are traditionally rolled out and featured in that article.

Firstly, the interview was given to a mickey mouse publication. Politicians tell the biggest porkies to local papers. Noel Dempsey fed more ****e to the Meath Chronicle than a farmer fed to a pig, regarding the Navan railway, the nearer he came to getting out of politics.

1.

In a private interview with this newspaper, Ministers Donohoe and Reilly confirmed that 2021 is the date when the first sod will be turned, provided that the present Government are returned to power in the upcoming general election.

Usual nonsense.

2.

During his speech earlier that morning, Minister Donohoe was noncommittal about a date for the commencement of Metro North, saying that it was difficult to pin down. During his speech, he said that nothing would happen before 2017, as there were issues like the Railway Order, which is a complicated planning project, as well as tendering, amongst other considerations.

More baloney.

3.

This all changed when this reporter asked him, in a private interview after the event, whether hard pressed commuters in the North County, who have endured promises from successive Governments over the years could be guaranteed delivery of Metro North. Minister Donohoe replied by saying, “Yes, Metro North will definitely happen. It will be funded by the Exchequer. If we have a period of economic growth and political stability, I believe we will have a Metro project. This is a commitment I can give, but there are assumptions underneath it, regarding our economy. However, I firmly believe that the best project is Metro North. When asked if the country slipped back into recession, as this is a 12 year project, would it affect the delivery of Metro, the Minister said that this is
the case in all projects.

Are you seeing the trend yet?

4.

Local Minister Dr James Reilly, who was in the company of Minister Donohoe when the date was confirmed, told the County Leader; “This is great news further confirming the Government’s commitment. The timeline is both real and realistic and it’s great news for people and businesses in Swords and the greater North County area.”

Blatant example of a TD spewing crap that highlights the same old repetitive stuff we have been hearing for many many years.

5.

Reilly went on to say; “I have been committed to Metro North from the start and though we found ourselves in the worst financial catastrophe, I fought to have this project to not be scrapped and to get it back on track. I’m delighted to be able to thank Minister Donohoe for confirming the sod will be turned during the lifetime of the next Government in 2021, if we’re returned to power,” he concluded.

Cute hoorism at its best.

That article really spells out why major rail infrastructure projects are neglected and is backed up by history. As Governments shift between the two main parties, projects are kicked around like footballs in an attempt for either party to claim them. I could add in the general political attitude to rail infrastructure, but I will assume I've upset you enough.

strassenwo!f

If they actually do get around to eventually building this, I'd certainly hope that they will have a serious rethink of their original plans for the St. Stephen's Green - Parnell Square section.

That was terribly weak.

The RPA's plan was to build two stations at just one location (O'Connell Bridge), for what is pretty much an underground LUAS.

Hopefully they'll have beefed up the planning team before this project comes around again, to make sure that Dublin doesn't get presented with anything so absurd again.

monument

Just to confirm:

Is the original Railway Order for Metro North still valid?

cgcsb

Even with completely new planning. There's no reason it cant be ready for construction in 2018 other than FG want ammunition for the 2021 election. Come to think of it that's probably a good thing. They only way to get big infrastructure done here is to make it a must for political survival.

OssianSmyth

monument wrote: »

Just to confirm:

Is the original Railway Order for Metro North still valid?

The original railway order specifies that works must be 'substantially completed' by 27/10/2020. The planning consent cost €170m and took 9 years to obtain starting from the original Platform for Change proposal in 2001.

The new plan is to start the design and planning process again from scratch and eventually build a lower capacity metro (60m trams vs 90m).

monument

OssianSmyth wrote: »

monument wrote: »

Just to confirm:

Is the original Railway Order for Metro North still valid?

The original railway order specifies that works must be 'substantially completed' by 27/10/2020. The planning consent cost 170m and took 9 years to obtain starting from the original Platform for Change proposal in 2001.

The new plan is to start the design and planning process again from scratch and eventually build a lower capacity metro (60m trams vs 90m).

So, my next question is, if we used the 3 billion extra in tax take for metro, how quickly could it be substantially completed?

Markcheese

monument wrote:

So, my next question is, if we used the 3 billion extra in tax take for metro, how quickly could it be substantially completed?

Basically if there was a windfall corporation tax from say apple - would the government of the day go with the original planned metro north or the new never never metro lite -

Grandeeod

Markcheese wrote: »

Basically if there was a windfall corporation tax from say apple - would the government of the day go with the original planned metro north or the new never never metro lite -

LOL!

markpb

monument wrote:

So, my next question is, if we used the 3 billion extra in tax take for metro, how quickly could it be substantially completed?

It couldn't reduce it at all. The windfall would go on a reduction in USC which will benefit people to the tune of €50 a year, a few bypasses and an increase in OAP. Metro North will never be built.

Sam Russell

Maybe offer Apple or Google the naming rights.

Grandeeod

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe offer Apple or Google the naming rights.

Considering what Apple and Google are gaining from the country, that's not a mad suggestion.:D

Grandeeod

This thread is here 5 years now and there's other threads re MN around the place. We will still be debating this in another 5 years and then 5 years after that and then 5 years after that again. So on and so forth.

Public transport just isn't an election issue and it shouldn't be. It should be an unrelated Governmental responsibility done in the interests of making the nation better for its citizens. Tax, VAT/Excise and all that lark are election issues. Health and public transport are fundamental expectations from your tax dollars, yet we still fail time after time.

FreudianSlippers

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe offer Apple or Google the naming rights.

If, say, Google/Facebook/etc. wanted to pay to get it running, I wouldn't care if it went from the airport straight to their bloody offices once it linked with the DART/Luas somewhere.

murphaph

The County Leader can exclusively confirm that construction of the much sought after Metro North Rail project will definitely go ahead, with a definite start date confirmed.

...phew. I thought it was cancelled there for a while!

Captain Chaos

murphaph wrote: »

...phew. I thought it was cancelled there for a while!

DART Underground was cancelled while the useless option will still go ahead. It will end up costing more in the long run trying to upgrade it's capacity in years after it opening.

DU on the other hand is a future proof scaling plan and intergrates with the existing system instead of another isolated transport system.