Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

marno21

Traffic on the M1 south of Lissenhall (J4) is hitting 100k consistantly and peaking above 110k on Fridays. How long more can the traffic continue from north Co. Dublin before it descends into gridlock?

Sam Russell

LeinsterDub wrote: »

A bit like those housing estates in the middle of Meath that where advertised as only 30 minutes from Dublin (at 3 am in the morning)

Travel time from clontarf to Connoly is often in excess of 10 minutes as the dart lumbers along at a snails pace waiting for a train ahead to move. Also what frequency could they deliver? Every second train would be max 3 an hour or few as 1

I assume the resignalling project will transform the Howth Junction to Connolly to GCD region. Currently I believe it's capacity is 8 trains per hour, which will rise to 20 trains per hour.

The better solution would be for the airport train to go through the Dart Underground tunnel to Pearse SSG and Heuston.

25 million passengers went through Dublin Airport last year with current predictions showing a rise of 20% this year.

LeinsterDub

Sam Russell wrote: »

I assume the resignalling project will transform the Howth Junction to Connolly to GCD region. Currently I believe it's capacity is 8 trains per hour, which will rise to 20 trains per hour.

The better solution would be for the airport train to go through the Dart Underground tunnel to Pearse SSG and Heuston.

25 million passengers went through Dublin Airport last year with current predictions showing a rise of 20% this year.

DU please, we'll all be with O'Leary in the grave before that ever happens

Sam Russell

LeinsterDub wrote: »

DU please, we'll all be with O'Leary in the grave before that ever happens

I am sure Michael O'Leary would push for DU, and the Clongriffin spur if it improved Ryanair's throughput.

MJohnston

Sam Russell wrote: »

I am sure Michael O'Leary would push for DU, and the Clongriffin spur if it improved Ryanair's throughput.

I think his solution would be car drivers armed with guns to take out all those traffic causing cyclists!

Sam Russell

Deedsie wrote: »

Different O'Leary... I think Leinster Dub is referring to the Fenian O'Leary from the yeats poem

Oh dear - can you not get a joke?

Idbatterim

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/new-luas-lines-among-transport-proposals-for-dublin-1.2392135

Using the new line (BXD) to link the city to the airport had been considered as an alternative to Metro North, but it emerged last month that this option had been discounted because it would prevent the extension of the Luas line to Finglas.

Can I just highlight this again, this was the prime reason why Luas wasnt chosen for aiport, not because the proposal was a total joke! thanks christ that it prevented the extension to finglas!

Because they were looking for a way, any way they could find to get out of a proper airport link...

Sam Russell

Deedsie wrote: »

Didn't read it as a joke sorry, just thought you misinterpreted or weren't familiar with the expression. Apologies

Deedsie gets a joke - a terrible beauty is born!

Grandeeod

Sam Russell wrote: »

I am sure Michael O'Leary would push for DU, and the Clongriffin spur if it improved Ryanair's throughput.

Despite the misgotten joke, MOL doesn't care about DU, a DART Spur or MN. He has a complete distrust of anything the state plans and subsequently fails to deliver. He is a man of private enterprise and I appreciate that despite some of his bluff.

Sam Russell

Grandeeod wrote: »

Despite the misgotten joke, MOL doesn't care about DU, a DART Spur or MN. He has a complete distrust of anything the state plans and subsequently fails to deliver. He is a man of private enterprise and I appreciate that despite some of his bluff.

My post:
I am sure Michael O'Leary would push for DU, and the Clongriffin spur if it improved Ryanair's throughput.

He is indeed interested in public enterprise if his private enterprise benefits. He does not like waste wherever it come from.

Grandeeod

Sam Russell wrote: »

My post:
I am sure Michael O'Leary would push for DU, and the Clongriffin spur if it improved Ryanair's throughput.

He is indeed interested in public enterprise if his private enterprise benefits. He does not like waste wherever it come from.

OK Sam. I'll bite.

Show me some evidence of this.

Brian CivilEng

Just putting things into perspective, daily passengers in Dublin Airport are currently approx 90,000 strong. The peak hour is hitting 6,000. 36% of passengers currently use the bus with 22% using taxis (2014 mode share).

That requires 648 buses and 13,200 taxis a day, assuming average 50 passengers for the bus and 1.5 passengers for taxi. In the busy hour that equates to 43 buses and 880 taxis. Everyone else is driving, not sure how to account for the number of cars that equates to but the nratrafficdata.ie website shows 2412 vehicles heading westbound on the M1 to Airport link between 8 and 9 this morning.

Dublin Airport is growing. The Airport has a target of growing public transport mode share amongst staff and passengers. It's 90,000 passengers today (and I mean literally the 27th May 2016), and it's not even peak summer time yet. In addition an office park is planned for the area on front of t2, with the first tenants moving in later this year. It's well known say that until the new runway growth will be restricted, in today's Irish Times the CEO of Aer Lingus highlights that until additional stands and gates are built growth will be restricted. How come the lack of mass transit access to the airport is no longer on the radar?

Idbatterim

Because it was based on a convenient lie. That and wait for this " the original scheme was based on higher growth figures " and was now a larger capacity than needs be. This despite the fact airport traffic m50 housing situation is worse than the boom already. The fact that limiting the capacity of original scheme actually decreases densities we can build at, must be lost on our politicians and "planners" ...

marno21

66k using the M1 spur to the Airport yesterday and 152k using the M1 betwen J2 Airport and the M50 Interchange.

Sustainable?

Pete_Cavan

DAA seem like a very well run company, profits up to €61m last year, not just on rapidly expanding DUB but also through contracts won at other airports, and developing commercial offices to produce more income. I believe they are also looking to finance the new runway themselves through the issue of bonds rather than looking for money from the exchequer similar to what they did with T2. This model should be used to fund MN rather than relying on politicians how have no interest.

I would nearly give the MN project to DAA and let them fiance and build it as they will benefit greatly from it, particularly as they plan to develop more office space. TII are grand but they will be waiting around until a government puts up the money which might never happen. Its a pity IE is such a dinosaur more interested in closing rather than opening rail lines as the airport link really should be a heavy rail link at take pressure off the northern line. Perhaps the ideal situation would be a DAA driven project with support from IE and a private sector finance and construction partner, and of course, as little politics as possible.

It would be great if some of these semi-states could fund MN through bonds. Detail analysis would be needed but the passenger fares would be substantial and should be enough to cover construction costs over 30 years. Yet instead we choose to use this model to build a motorway in a sparsely populated area with no revenue producing mechanism to recoup the cost which is a serious risk to our public finances in the future. Really highlights where our priorities lay and the limits of our ambition. Never going to happen though as our politicians are never going to give up the public transport football, too much to be gained by kicking it around.

Bray Head

@Pete_Cavan

Great post.

There is likely a very high willingness to pay on a metro link to/from the airport. I regularly share a 25 taxi from the city centre or take a 7 aircoach and metro would be a better than either. If these revenues could be secured it would part-finance a lot of the construction cost. This is not impossible, just needs a well written contract.

Anyway this kind of very large infrastructural project is just not suited to the short-run pressures of the political system for a number of reasons:
-Expenditure is just so large that it creates a very large hole for 4-5 years preventing other capital projects
-Dublin would be seen to be getting too much

This is why we've seen expenditure on 'placeholder' projects like the Luas Cross City and M17/18 over the last few years. Neither costs so much that they displace other types of capital spend. Neither is particularly critical either. But they prove that the government is building something on the road and rail front.

Electricity (and hopefully soon water) network capex is funded this way and there is a very good case for doing the same with a project like this too.

murphaph

The DAA makes savage money from car parking. I wouldn't be so sure they'd be fans of improved public transport at the airport at all.

marno21

murphaph wrote: »

The DAA makes savage money from car parking. I wouldn't be so sure they'd be fans of improved public transport at the airport at all.

Beat me to it. It's no wonder they're posting record profits with the price of parking at the airport.

D Trent

marno21 wrote: »

Beat me to it. It's no wonder they're posting record profits with the price of parking at the airport.

I'm just wondering are you allowed park at Luas Red cow and not use the Luas?

Would that be cheaper if you got taxi from there to Airport?
I'm lucky I always get the bus direct from Galway whenever I'm flying.

Carawaystick

D Trent wrote: »

I'm just wondering are you allowed park at Luas Red cow and not use the Luas?

You can only pay for a day there, iirc

There's free parking in Swords, and get a bus to the Airport if you want to cut costs and take a risk.

LXFlyer

murphaph wrote: »

The DAA makes savage money from car parking. I wouldn't be so sure they'd be fans of improved public transport at the airport at all.

Hence every bus and coach operator (including PSO services operated by DB and BE) are charged by DAA for the use of the airport bus and coach parks.

In my view it's absolutely ludicrous that PSO services should be charged - they should be encouraging as many public transport routes to serve the airport as is possible.

Sam Russell

lxflyer wrote: »

Hence every bus and coach operator (including PSO services operated by DB and BE) are charged by DAA for the use of the airport bus and coach parks.

In my view it's absolutely ludicrous that PSO services should be charged - they should be encouraging as many public transport routes to serve the airport as is possible.

Totally agree.

PASCHAL DONOHOE's (Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport) first reaction to the news that Dublin Airport surpassed 25m passengers last year was to suggest that they would need more car parks - not that the would need MN or the Clongriffin spur. No, more car parks!

McAlban

Carawaystick wrote: »

You can only pay for a day there, iirc

There's free parking in Swords, and get a bus to the Airport if you want to cut costs and take a risk.

Not so much free parking in Swords these days. Swords Manor or JC's maybe are the only ones close to a Bus stop that's free

Idbatterim

Beat me to it. It's no wonder they're posting record profits with the price of parking at the airport.

the price is dirt cheap compared to uk airports. There is so much competition from the local hotels and quickpark...

PASCHAL DONOHOE's (Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport) first reaction to the news that Dublin Airport surpassed 25m passengers last year was to suggest that they would need more car parks - not that the would need MN or the Clongriffin spur. No, more car parks!

well he is the minister that announced the knocking of original metro north on the head, based on lies...

Idbatterim

How come the lack of mass transit access to the airport is no longer on the radar?

oh it is,they just bought themselves and thus us, 5 years of bull**** "debate"...

the only "saving" on those proposed, might be at ballymun surface running v tunnel. half a decade delay and all of the associated costs, just for that?

Like I said, thank god it wasnt a worse case scenario, i.e. the pretty much all on street luas joke proposal... There will be so much made of the moronic 60m stations, that I reckon that will get overturned too...

Idbatterim

just a thought, given revised metro north will be totally entirely or mostly? segregated, can they automate the line? What are were the proposed running hours for the line?

McAlban

Idbatterim wrote: »

just a thought, given revised metro north will be totally segregated, can they automate the line?

Will it be? God knows what will come out of the proposal. Cost saving may lead to running on Road up the R108 through Ballymun.

I know Copenhagen metro is locked into a particular type of train because the manufactures developed the automation system. It's really something to sit in the front of a metro from the Airport to City centre.

cgcsb

given that there are now driverless cars, I don't see why metro, or even the existing luas system could not be driverless.

Idbatterim

given that it has been pushed back and the current crap with the luas drivers, I wonder what the initial cost is upfront for driverless v the cost of wages of the lifetime of system. I see a few big issues now with it being driver v driverless. Its an expensive enough project, excellent value, but its a chunk of change. This should be running 24 hours or close to it, IMO...

cgcsb

Indeed with driverless tech you are removing the wage cost which is the biggest barrier to late night and 24 services. You'll also have to have some night time closures for maintenance.