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Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )
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Idbatterim wrote: »just reading a bit again about both projects. In terms of proposed savings we have
1. shorter platforms - a joke (honestly who ever even mentioned this for the pittance it will "save" i.e. 79,000,000 should be fired)
2. less rolling stock - fine just order less for original MN
3. drop a station - saving €131,000,000
4. ballymun track (see below and this issue will arise again)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Metro
my point being, the tracks may well again be ordered to go below ground in ballymun again, the dropping of stations is a compromise, so a five year delay and all of the costs incurred again, for an inferior scheme to save and I am laughing when I say save only a mere "131,000,000" potentially?!
why did they decide that a section would be above ground anyway?
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Originally it was to reach the surface and run on elevated track from DCU to beyond the M50 and then another deep bore tunnel under the airport.
Then the residents complained and the govt got the checkbook out and decided to cut and cover a tunnel from DCU to the M50.
No we're back to surface running in the 'optimised metro plan'
It is significantly more expansive to build a cut and cover tunnel than it is to run on the surface, putting that section underground was only to appease nimbys, there wasn't a lack of space on the surface.
I think we're now getting at grade surface running i.e. metros will be stopping at junctions, go figure.
Point being if the thing was running underground everywhere else why would you put an overground section in it for one particular part of the route?
It's a bit rich to claim it's nimbysim when this thing would run underground through every other part of its route 0 -
Point being if the thing was running underground everywhere else why would you put an overground section in it for one particular part of the route?
It's a bit rich to claim it's nimbysim when this thing would run underground through every other part of its route
Cost, above ground is cheaper. The reason it's underground in the City Centre is because there is no space above ground. There is space on the Ballymun road, at least for an elevate structure, so surface running is possible there and cost effective.
The entire route is not underground, the Swords section is surface as are the rural parts either side of the airport.0 -
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Cost, above ground is cheaper. The reason it's underground in the City Centre is because there is no space above ground. There is space on the Ballymun road, at least for an elevate structure, so surface running is possible there and cost effective.
The entire route is not underground, the Swords section is surface as are the rural parts either side of the airport.
It would have to make it through dorset street, drumcondra, griffith avenue, and glasnevin. All of which have roads that have a similar amount of space to the ballymun road 0 -
Not really. They are not as wide, not as straight and development is much closer to the edge of the road.Cost, above ground is cheaper. The reason it's underground in the City Centre is because there is no space above ground. There is space on the Ballymun road, at least for an elevate structure, so surface running is possible there and cost effective.
The entire route is not underground, the Swords section is surface as are the rural parts either side of the airport.
It would have to make it through dorset street, drumcondra, griffith avenue, and glasnevin. All of which have roads that have a similar amount of space to the ballymun road
Berlin's 'U-Bahn' (ie, underground way) started life on viaducts and still runs that way for large parts. Apparently going underground risked damaging the brand new sewers!0 -
It would have to make it through dorset street, drumcondra, griffith avenue, and glasnevin. All of which have roads that have a similar amount of space to the ballymun road
None of those roads have the central reserve space of the Ballymun road and none are positioned to allow a relatively straight line route.0 -
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Not really. They are not as wide, not as straight and development is much closer to the edge of the road.
Berlin's 'U-Bahn' (ie, underground way) started life on viaducts and still runs that way for large parts. Apparently going underground risked damaging the brand new sewers!
You'll find most of the ballymun road is similar to drumcondra, griffith avenue or dorset street in terms of width, development and straightness.
Smacks of a the usual government thinking that there's there was money to be saved in the povvo neighborhood
Aside from that the bottleneck that a ground level rail line causes, having to contend with traffic, lights and speed limits would be something that you would want to avoid I imagine 0 -
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You'll find most of the ballymun road is similar to drumcondra, griffith avenue or dorset street in terms of width, development and straightness.
Nope none of them do, there is no central reserve on any and there is no straight line road between Drumcondra station and the ballymun road.Aside from that the bottleneck that a ground level rail line causes, having to contend with traffic, lights and speed limits would be something that you would want to avoid I imagine
Yes and the elevated structure balances cost with that requirement. surface running is a cheaper again compromise.0 -
Nope none of them do, there is no central reserve on any and there is no straight line road between Drumcondra station and the ballymun road.
Yes and the elevated structure balances cost with that requirement. surface running is a cheaper again compromise.
Presuming the Ballymun road "reserve" you're on about is the pedestrian Island/Central row of trees, you also have two rows of trees on Griffith avenue taking up even more space (good luck with that
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theres a "reserve" and pedestrian island up Dorset street to. There's a "reserve" through much of Drumcondra too. Like I said, the defining factor is more likely to be that the government thought they could get away with running it above ground through a council estate. No suprise there.
If you wanted to you could run most of the route above ground but why would you?
The sooner they bit the bullet on an underground system the better for dublin0 -
Presuming the Ballymun road "reserve" you're on about is the pedestrian Island/Central row of trees, you also have two rows of trees on Griffith avenue taking up even more space (good luck with that)
theres a "reserve" and pedestrian island up Dorset street to. There's a "reserve" through much of Drumcondra too.
I really don't think this is accurate. The Ballymun Road has a large (about two traffic lanes wide) central reservation that runs uninterrupted (save for junctions) for an entire 3.2km, all the way from the M50 to Griffith Avenue.
The trees on Griffith Avenue are at the *sides* of the roads, which is an entirely different prospect. It should also be noted that the trees there are much older and more established than the handful of small ones along the Ballymun Road (which really doesn't have a lot of trees for most of its length).
Dorset Street has a central reservation that's just about 1 traffic lane wide, but it is a substantially busier road, with really important and busy junctions that could not be interrupted (NCR, Whitworth Road, etc.), and more importantly, the reservation is barely 500m in length and ends abruptly right after the Drumcondra railway bridge (which in itself might be another obstacle?).
Where do you propose this overground line would run for the 2km between that railway bridge and Griffith Avenue?0 -
Presuming the Ballymun road "reserve" you're on about is the pedestrian Island/Central row of trees, you also have two rows of trees on Griffith avenue taking up even more space (good luck with that)
theres a "reserve" and pedestrian island up Dorset street to. There's a "reserve" through much of Drumcondra too. Like I said, the defining factor is more likely to be that the government thought they could get away with running it above ground through a council estate. No suprise there.
If you wanted to you could run most of the route above ground but why would you?
The trees on the side of griffith avenue are an entirely different prospect, you'd be taking pedestrian space away for a wider road, the central reserve on Dorset Street is narrow and only 300m long.
What surface route would you propose for metro north? what sharp bends would have to be taken?0 -
I really don't think this is accurate. The Ballymun Road has a large (about two traffic lanes wide) central reservation that runs uninterrupted (save for junctions) for an entire 3.2km, all the way from the M50 to Griffith Avenue.
The trees on Griffith Avenue are at the *sides* of the roads, which is an entirely different prospect. It should also be noted that the trees there are much older and more established than the handful of small ones along the Ballymun Road (which really doesn't have a lot of trees for most of its length).
Dorset Street has a central reservation that's just about 1 traffic lane wide, but it is a substantially busier road, with really important and busy junctions that could not be interrupted (NCR, Whitworth Road, etc.), and more importantly, the reservation is barely 500m in length and ends abruptly right after the Drumcondra railway bridge (which in itself might be another obstacle?).
Where do you propose this overground line would run for the 2km between that railway bridge and Griffith Avenue?
Notwithstanding your assertion that the good people of griffith avenue have a god given right to greenery that their near neighbors don't hop on google maps and take a look at the central median of the ballymun road then compare it to dorset street.
It's barely one lane in places. If you could run a train service up that median without completely taking out other lanes there you could run it up any of the other sites.0 -
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Notwithstanding your assertion that the good people of griffith avenue have a god given right to greenery that their near neighbors don't hop on google maps and take a look at the central median of the ballymun road then compare it to dorset street.
It's barely one lane in places. If you could run a train service up that median without completely taking out other lanes there you could run it up any of the other sites.
What surface route you propose from Drumcondra?0
This discussion has been closed.
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