Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

D.L.R.

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think citing the loop line at Tara St to Connolly is a bit unkind. That was Victorian Engineering at its most brutal. A sleek design in the style of the Dundrum viaduct would be a great asset. Simple stairs up to stations would also work.

The options are: at grade, elevated, cut & cover, and deep tunnel - in order of cast. Elevated would get my vote.

Well elevated is a good choice when there's budgetary constraints to going underground. You get the segragation and it can be a nice addition to the urban fabric. Ballymun is all about dynamic regeneration and an elevated line fits right into that context for me.

The loop line gets some stick but imagine it was at grade with level crossings on the quays :pac:

murphaph

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think citing the loop line at Tara St to Connolly is a bit unkind. That was Victorian Engineering at its most brutal. A sleek design in the style of the Dundrum viaduct would be a great asset. Simple stairs up to stations would also work.

The options are: at grade, elevated, cut & cover, and deep tunnel - in order of cast. Elevated would get my vote.

You can add in trench (so cut but no cover except at junctions and pedestrian bridges) to that list. Vienna underground is like this in parts and the DART does something similar in Dun Laoghaire.

strassenwo!f

Have they finally decided that they're not going for the two stations at O'Connell Bridge, with the platforms connecting them?

I have to say it never seemed like a terribly good plan, especially in terms of cost.

MJohnston

Given that New Metro North is essentially an entirely new project, absolutely nothing has been finally decided on yet, but then, this is pretty common knowledge is it not?

strassenwo!f

On the Northside, I would be in favour of a station at O'Connell Street, to integrate in some way with the LUAS.

I would then look seriously at building it directly to Drumcondra, probably with a station around Temple Street.

I know that work has been done at the Mater Hospital for this project, but it was probably misguided, for political reasons. Now is the time to write it off.

If you build a station at Temple Street, you readily bring the whole of Mountjoy Square. the North side of Parnell Street, Fitzgibbon Street, Eccles Street, Nelson Street, Blessington Street, etc, and the Mater Hospital, into the catchment area.

If you build it through the Mater Hospital, and nothwithsdanding the work that has already been done at the Mater Hospital, you lose a lot of those opportunities for passenger uptake.

strassenwo!f

Take a large area like Mountjoy Square, for example, with big potential for employment. That'd be 10 minutes away from access to the metro if it's built via the Mater. That's obviously not bad if you consider the current situation for the square, but Dublin should really be aiming at 5 or so minutes for getting anybody working at such a major central location into the network.

murphaph

Interesting that you favour bringing the line closer to a park, something you are fervently against in other threads....

LeinsterDub

strassenwo!f wrote: »

.

If you build it through the Mater Hospital, and nothwithsdanding the work that has already been done at the Mater Hospital, you lose a lot of those opportunities for passenger uptake.

The Mater and Temple Street are basically the same catchment. Especially with Dublin Bikes factored in

MJohnston

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The Mater and Temple Street are basically the same catchment. Especially with Dublin Bikes factored in

It's barely a 5 minute walk even

D.L.R.

Mountjoy square is less than 200m from the new tram line. Besides Mater is half built already, there's no way it'll be abandoned. Not in this economy.

But credit where its due, at least you've changed the subject.

Dyr

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Which of course will not only mean grade separation but pedestrian separation as the Ballymun Road is a built up residential area. Basically dividing Ballymun in 2?

Of course it will but its just a minor detail for the hornby types

Mountjoy square is less than 200m from the new tram line. Besides Mater is half built already, there's no way it'll be abandoned. Not in this economy.

Strange that people would want the mater stop abandoned

L1011

strassenwo!f wrote: »

On the Northside, I would be in favour of a station at O'Connell Street, to integrate in some way with the LUAS.

I would then look seriously at building it directly to Drumcondra, probably with a station around Temple Street.

I know that work has been done at the Mater Hospital for this project, but it was probably misguided, for political reasons. Now is the time to write it off.

If you build a station at Temple Street, you readily bring the whole of Mountjoy Square. the North side of Parnell Street, Fitzgibbon Street, Eccles Street, Nelson Street, Blessington Street, etc, and the Mater Hospital, into the catchment area.

If you build it through the Mater Hospital, and nothwithsdanding the work that has already been done at the Mater Hospital, you lose a lot of those opportunities for passenger uptake.

Put away the crayons


You can't even keep a consistent idea of why you want to reroute things between threads.

You have repeatedly battered on about targeting employment areas without understanding density at all and now you suggest heading towards clearly empty areas.

That said, maybe your routes made more sense when you were last here, what, a decade and a half ago?

Grandeeod

annfield1978 wrote: »

An Alignment Study tender for New Metro North has been issued by the NTA to carry out an options selection and identify an Emerging Preferred Route for the Scheme

Back to square one folks.

We were here before and now we are here again. It is beyond any reasonable comprehension that both this study and the other one issued for DU re. Inchicore/Heuston is being done in the interests of saving money for the taxpayer and developing a starting point for better rail transport in the city.

This is just more reinventing the wheel based on ignorant, careless and power hungry politicians.

spacetweek

I contacted the NTA about Metro North since there's so little news and got this response:

Thank you for your enquiry. The Authority has commenced initial work on the design and planning stages of new Metro North in collaboration with Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), and in line with our Project Management Guidelines. The key objective of this first phase will be to determine the Emerging Preferred Route. This will be informed by a number of key work streams and studies, and some of these have also commenced. It is hoped that this will be completed during the 2017.

Thereafter, the Authority, in their role as Sanctioning Authority, will prepare a detailed business case for the project based on more detailed design and cost estimates of the Emerging Preferred Route prior to lodging the Railway Order for the proposed scheme. The comprehensive appraisal will be conducted in accordance with the Government's Public Spending Code. Public consultation will be carried out on the emerging preferred route in 2017.

Kind Regards

spacetweek

Indeed, the fact that they are yet to decide on an emerging preferred route means that the announcement of the specs of "low cost metro north" were just hot air. In fact, it seems no specs at all have been decided, or even the routing it will take.

It is, indeed, an entirely new project.

marno21

Deedsie wrote: »

Of the M20, Dart Underground & Metro North, which one is closest to being shovel ready?

It's a national embarrassment at this stage. Just get the hell on with it and build them.

The M20 is back to square one, as far from shovel ready as could be.

Metro North is also about 4/5 years from construction going by spacetweek's post above

DART Underground.. God only knows how far away that is

Grandeeod

spacetweek wrote: »

It is, indeed, an entirely new project.

Of course it is. Did you need to email anyone about it? Read my last post.

Markcheese

Is the m20 design totally cancelled ?? I thought the land had been CPOed and archaeological digs done...

Idbatterim

Grandeeod. I'm coming around to your way of thinking. A route was chosen , we have been here and done it! What's next honestly. A new scheme is devised and before its proceeded with in five years another excuse arises and we go for a revised , revised scheme?!

D.L.R.

Engineers Ireland made a good case last year for an alternative, cheaper routing for Metro. Its on youtube

Development of a New Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area 2015- 2040

The metro north bit starts around the 42 minute mark, but all major projects are discussed.

Grandeeod

D.L.R. wrote: »

Engineers Ireland made a good case last year for an alternative, cheaper routing for Metro. Its on youtube

Development of a New Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area 2015- 2040

The metro north bit starts around the 42 minute mark, but all major projects are discussed.

Its bonkers. Full of contradictions and interacts with so many private homes, the compo and objections would be sky high. As for all that elevated running.:eek:

Either do it right or not at all.

Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

Grandeeod. I'm coming around to your way of thinking. A route was chosen , we have been here and done it! What's next honestly. A new scheme is devised and before its proceeded with in five years another excuse arises and we go for a revised , revised scheme?!

That's what will probably happen. I can go back over 40 years and cite examples.

BonnieSituation

Can someone point me to the actual fear of ever committing to one of these things?

I mean we are all here complaining about it and we're Irish. So politicians have nothing to fear from us.

And surely telling people "your life will be better if we build this" isn't that hard a sell... so what is our actual malfunction when it comes to infrastructure?

Why does nothing get done right?

Grandeeod

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Can someone point me to the actual fear of ever committing to one of these things?

I mean we are all here complaining about it and we're Irish. So politicians have nothing to fear from us.

And surely telling people "your life will be better if we build this" isn't that hard a sell... so what is our actual malfunction when it comes to infrastructure?

Why does nothing get done right?

There is no fear of infrastructure in general. Its about a political comprehension of transport modes and politicians have a very poor comprehension of rail infrastructure. They have always approached it from a do minimum perspective.

Where does this mindset come from?

I have lots of theories that would go way off topic.

BonnieSituation

Grandeeod wrote: »

There is no fear of infrastructure in general. Its about a political comprehension of transport modes and politicians have a very poor comprehension of rail infrastructure. They have always approached it from a do minimum perspective.

Where does this mindset come from?

I have lots of theories that would go way off topic.

I wonder is there a compilation list of planned infrastructure projects since the 1920s?

I'd say there's a fair whack of great stuff that was just ignored.

I have never gotten my head around how this State could have Ardnacrusha built and implement rural electrification in its formative years and yet **** up a tram line.

Grandeeod

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I wonder is there a compilation list of planned infrastructure projects since the 1920s?

I'd say there's a fair whack of great stuff that was just ignored.

I have never gotten my head around how this State could have Ardnacrusha built and implement rural electrification in its formative years and yet **** up a tram line.

The bolded words will go some way towards finding the answers.

Markcheese

Actually, from an engineers point of view, it makes perfect sense to design everything multiple times, through in court challenges and reports and reviews thats a lot of work for engineers...:-)
I can accept that few large projects are perfect for everyone,so will lead to challenges... thinking height of the port tunnel, location of new childrens hospital ,

marno21

It costs x to build a single carraigeway bypass of a one horse town in Co. Clare, for example.

Because Dublin has more need for capacity, it would cost 10x to build an effective solution for a similar issue in Dublin. The M50 for example needed major freeflow intersections along its route. Yet it was given the same type of junction as exists on the N18 at Shannon, or the M7 at Portlaoise.

This is the issue, Dublin needs much more to be spent to accomodate the extra users/handle the extra traffic/journeys etc. Which won't be paid for as long as they can build something cheaper in the wilds and get the same amount of votes.

Markcheese

Shheesh, whats the opposite of a rose tinted view..
As far as I know the trams were removed not because of underuse,but because they were percieved as old fashioned...
The dart was introduced on existing track,

BonnieSituation

Markcheese wrote: »

Shheesh, whats the opposite of a rose tinted view..
As far as I know the trams were removed not because of underuse,but because they were percieved as old fashioned...
The dart was introduced on existing track,

Regardless of the "reason" and both of those reasons are crocks of **** no matter how anyone at the time could say otherwise.

The asterisks in my post on the last page are actually "fūck. And it was in relation to the luas plan as we have it now as opposed to how it was envisaged in the late 90s.