Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

MJohnston

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Great one car crossing and maybe 2 pedestrian crossing over 3 k of road.

Incorrect. 3 car crossings, or 5 with the elevated section around the Ikea junction, which is going to be the case as jd pointed out. Which means at least 5 pedestrian crossings, at least 1 at the Ballymun Metro station itself, and optionally more if you build a couple of overpasses.

Dyr

LeinsterDub wrote: »

1. This is a residential area
2. Traffic needs to be able cross the road
3. People need to be able to cross the road
4. MU is expecting to run every 3 to 5 minutes in one direction
5. MU is expected to going at about 80 kph

All of which means better than long mile road like grade separation and no time to sit around at lights

Or of course we can cheap out on it and have in running at 30 kph like the Luas around town, stopping for traffic lights but then it's not really a metro

I think you'll find the proposed solution to the first three points is "I don't care"

Anyone who thinks there's going to be two high frequency train lines splitting Glasnevin and Ballymun at ground level is living in a hornby fantasy world

Idbatterim

I have heard the proposed frequency is up to every 2 minutes and if they go for the pathetic 60m platforms, wait till its every 2 minutes from nearly the get go, not 10 years down the road :rolleyes:

LeinsterDub

MJohnston wrote: »

Incorrect. 3 car crossings, or 5 with the elevated section around the Ikea junction, which is going to be the case as jd pointed out. Which means at least 5 pedestrian crossings, at least 1 at the Ballymun Metro station itself, and optionally more if you build a couple of overpasses.

Sorry misread your post. So basically barring papins road (which I feel is needed for the bus and local access) we are on the same page of 600 to 900 m of duck and dive over the course of 2k.

Sam Russell

What are the cost implication say per km for

1. At grade.
2. elevated
3. cut and cover
4. trench
5. deep tunnel
6. duck and dive.

Just wondering how much of a difference we are talking about.

Idbatterim

What are the cost implication say per km for

1. At grade.
2. elevated
3. cut and cover
4. trench
5. deep tunnel
6. duck and dive.

I was thinking the same earlier, particularly for elevated...

marno21

If street running along the R108 is the order of the day, call it Luas North and just build it with all these at grade junctions.

Either it's a high speed grade seperated metro or not. There is no in between.

LeinsterDub

http://m.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0809/807945-dublin-airport-growth/

Sure a couple of buses and a taxi will cover that

marno21

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0809/807945-dublin-airport-growth/

Sure a couple of buses and a taxi will cover that

And more car parks. Lots of car parks

Bray Head

What exactly is DAA's position on MN?

cgcsb

Bray Head wrote: »

What exactly is DAA's position on MN?

Why on Earth would they want to loose their car park revenue to a frequent, reliable light rail?

Sam Russell

The DAA have spent nearly €50m to upgrade the airport according to that report and the Clongriffin spur costs between €100m and €200m, which would be a quick solution to passenger and staff transport.

Metro North would be a longer term and better solution.

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

Why on Earth would they want to loose their car park revenue to a frequent, reliable light rail?

The car park revenue is pretty safe because people will still arrive by car and need to park them. It is near impossible to get a car park space unless it is booked in advance.

Bray Head

Sam Russell wrote: »

The DAA have spent nearly 50m to upgrade the airport according to that report and the Clongriffin spur costs between 100m and 200m, which would be a quick solution to passenger and staff transport.

As low as 100m for a brand new alignment, CPO of farmland, bridge over the M50, station, junction at Clongriffin.

Not remotely credible to me.

Idbatterim

I have asked / stated this before. Can't they build a large car park themselves and make money from it on a greenfield site near airport? The metro would be the shuttle...

McAlban

Idbatterim wrote: »

I have asked / stated this before. Can't they build a large car park themselves and make money from it on a greenfield site near airport? The metro would be the shuttle...

It's a good idea, you could run it like Heathrow express and have Free transport to / from Car Park.
Most of this land is already owned by private developers / DAA though.

Idbatterim

Imagine the fortune in parking that could be saved if there was a frequent / high hughish speed option of getting to the airport. I'd love to be able to ditch car for stays of more than several days, if not all together. You'd have to wonder if metro north is actually more important than DU. It would take a lot of traffic off m50 and the n1 from city centre to port tunnel entrance. Both of which suffer chronic traffic...

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

The car park revenue is pretty safe because people will still arrive by car and need to park them. It is near impossible to get a car park space unless it is booked in advance.

Yes but certainly less so. If you have a reliable rail service driving and paying parking charges will become less attractive.

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

Imagine the fortune in parking that could be saved if there was a frequent / high hughish speed option of getting to the airport. I'd love to be able to ditch car for stays of more than several days, if not all together. You'd have to wonder if metro north is actually more important than DU. It would take a lot of traffic off m50 and the n1 from city centre to port tunnel entrance. Both of which suffer chronic traffic...

I would say metro north will serve more new, previously unserved areas, with rail. DARTu, will have the effect of radically improving existing rail services in the GDA and indeed across the country as more capacity will be freed up for long distance trains.

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

I would say metro north will serve more new, previously unserved areas, with rail. DARTu, will have the effect of radically improving existing rail services in the GDA and indeed across the country as more capacity will be freed up for long distance trains.

in the short term though if easing Dublin congestion is number 1 criteria. Wouldn't MN do a better job of this than Du?

cgcsb

I don't think there's any point in talking 'short term' when either project will take at least 5 years to construct and at least 3 years of planning. Assuming no change of government or rather change of the wind.

Besides it's not like we can't fund both. Ireland's cost of borrowing is at a record low and we seem to be able to easily find the cash to build mega bridges across the river barrow and loch Corrib for no good reason.

Idbatterim

I agree with the above. But if we could choose one to start right now, I'd go with MN...

Sam Russell

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree with the above. But if we could choose one to start right now, I'd go with MN...

But if you started Clongriffin, DU and MN today, Clongriffin would come on stream first by a long way.

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

But if you started Clongriffin, DU and MN today, Clongriffin would come on stream first by a long way.

But what would be the point if there's nowhere for trains comming from the airport to go when it merges onto the northern line.

Idbatterim

Couldn't less darts be run to howth? To make airport service in any way useful you would need two preferably three darts per hour in my opinion...

Carawaystick

Idbatterim wrote: »

Couldn't less darts be run to howth? To make airport service in any way useful you would need two preferably three darts per hour in my opinion...

If you had to wait half an hour for the next train, you'ld be rightly complaining about the uselessness of the train.

Idbatterim

Carawaystick wrote: »

If you had to wait half an hour for the next train, you'ld be rightly complaining about the uselessness of the train.

i just checked stansted express and they run up to every 15 min...

murphaph

Idbatterim wrote: »

in the short term though if easing Dublin congestion is number 1 criteria. Wouldn't MN do a better job of this than Du?

Not if DU was implemented holistically. DU would involve the tunnel, creating the X shaped DART network, as we all know on here. This would need to be accompanied by a wholesale reconfiguration of bus routes in most of West Dublin/North Kildare, North East Dublin and South East Dublin, so that the massive capacity created on the DART network could be fed with buses that cease running parallel to the existing heavy rail lines and instead run perpendicular to them. You wouldn't run a 67A from Maynooth to town any more. You'd run it from say Dunboyne Railway station to Maynooth Station, to Hazelhatch to the Luas at Saggart. Further in you'd run from Clonsilla Station to Adamstown to Luas somewhere like Cheeverstown and on to say Bawnogue, and so in in towards town.

In South East Dublin the same idea but with buses running perpendicular to the Luas and DART and when MN got built the same there too.

The buses don't get snarled up in city centre traffic and can actually run to some sort of reliable time table.

Ah, but it'll never happen with our current political set-up.

BonnieSituation

murphaph wrote: »

Not if DU was implemented holistically. DU would involve the tunnel, creating the X shaped DART network, as we all know on here. This would need to be accompanied by a wholesale reconfiguration of bus routes in most of West Dublin/North Kildare, North East Dublin and South East Dublin, so that the massive capacity created on the DART network could be fed with buses that cease running parallel to the existing heavy rail lines and instead run perpendicular to them. You wouldn't run a 67A from Maynooth to town any more. You'd run it from say Dunboyne Railway station to Maynooth Station, to Hazelhatch to the Luas at Saggart. Further in you'd run from Clonsilla Station to Adamstown to Luas somewhere like Cheeverstown and on to say Bawnogue, and so in in towards town.

In South East Dublin the same idea but with buses running perpendicular to the Luas and DART and when MN got built the same there too.

The buses don't get snarled up in city centre traffic and can actually run to some sort of reliable time table.

Ah, but it'll never happen with our current political set-up.

That's the dream right there.

Sam Russell

Bray Head wrote: »

As low as 100m for a brand new alignment, CPO of farmland, bridge over the M50, station, junction at Clongriffin.

Not remotely credible to me.

The €100m would build the rail - it is just 7 km across green fields with a crossing on the M1. That requires less than 70 acres of land.

Electrification and rolling stock would increase the cost. The commuter trains running non-stop to Connolly, or a single stop at Clongriffin, would be able to provide the service assuming there is room in the schedule.

Dart to the airport would require the Howth Junction to Howth service to become a shuttle service - that is already a published plan.