Massey Very Cold

yessam

Are Massey Ferguson harder to start than other tractors in the cold. Just seems like a very rough cigarette smoker on these frosty mornings compared to the Ford or Case. Does anyone else think the same. I'm beginning to think if these cold mornings last, I am going to burn the starter out of it so I left it this morning and used the old Ford instead even though ther is no heater or back window in the Ford.

millertime78

most definitely.....I have a 690 and I can never start it when the temp is below zero...(the heat plug ain't working so this doesn't help) However once the frost burns off it starts first pull.

corkcomp

it depends on the model and how the compression is, if you have any or all of the following you could have a problem - worn piston rings, liners or poor diesel pump. lots of tractors can be hard to start in this weather, david brown and fords can be a b***h too!

Casinoking

Spent an hour and a half trying to start the brother in law's John Deere 6610 yesterday morning. It doesn't like the cold either!

marlyman

Casinoking wrote: »

Spent an hour and a half trying to start the brother in law's John Deere 6610 yesterday morning. It doesn't like the cold either!

thats whats bradex is for .... or "start ya bastard" from nulon

Ford4000

Massys always wer a bit harder started, my ford 4000 starts with no heater everytime, the uncles zetor crystal starts first kick but the neighbours 290 the devil in hell wouldn start er and it has v low hours compared to our yokes !!!

tabby aspreme

always thought perkins engines were easy to start , have a massey 65 mk 2 it around the place about as long as i am never fails to start even at minus 17 in january

rooney32

the 300 series masseys are very hard to start we had to jump ours on the real cold mornings. a local mechanic is recommending using a high speed iskra starter and a 665 battery (900 amp).also the heater plugs are giving a bit of trouble they are heating up but the diesel isnt getting through.

this year the diesel froze in a lot of machines some diesel in ireland is rated for -10 degrees no good for this year

pakalasa

I think these days the best thing to do is leave it until the afternoon , if you can before starting. You could have a rise of 15C or more by then.;)

boredmeeting

Ford4000 wrote: »

Massys always wer a bit harder started, my ford 4000 starts with no heater everytime, the uncles zetor crystal starts first kick but the neighbours 290 the devil in hell wouldn start er and it has v low hours compared to our yokes !!!

is there heater plugs and two batteries in your uncles zetor

Ford4000

2 baterries but no heater plugs lad !! always heard crystals were v easy to start, thats why i have one nearly bought

cj plant agri

Casinoking wrote: »

Spent an hour and a half trying to start the brother in law's John Deere 6610 yesterday morning. It doesn't like the cold either!

i have a 6600 and a 10 and as you said not as quick to get out of the bed in the cold morning as id like, the 66 jd had problems with the heads, from the 6600 right up to the 6630 which jd never really sorted properly, all it would take is a heavy duty head gasget, but they never seem to have engineerd it. dont know why a fabulos tractor does the work of the country. but out of all the 6000 series they were the most tempremental.

as for the masseys the majority of 1990s masseys were and proved them selves as near enough scrap apart from the 390, and the 690 698 699 were even more trouble than a drug dealer, (i dont mean to run any mans tractor down, i know this from my own expierence) but heater plugs mean alot, and if the temp goes below -5 or even -10 the diesel can freeze you know ,so this would be the same as an airlock, and would cause the lift pump to starve itself.

might seem mad but i have been known to light a fire with a meal bag beside machines on such mornings, far enough away as not to do damage, but close enough to warm up the lines.

rooney32

"pakasala" has problem sorted lads if its a frosty morning everyone stay in bed until afternoon before starting tractor!!!!!. what planet do you opperate from???

pakalasa

rooney32 wrote: »

"pakasala" has problem sorted lads if its a frosty morning everyone stay in bed until afternoon before starting tractor!!!!!. what planet do you opperate from???

I meant for those with a small amount of work to do, like dropping in silage bales etc.............smart ass :mad:

marlyman

rooney32 wrote: »

the 300 series masseys are very hard to start we had to jump ours on the real cold mornings. a local mechanic is recommending using a high speed iskra starter and a 665 battery (900 amp).also the heater plugs are giving a bit of trouble they are heating up but the diesel isnt getting through.

this year the diesel froze in a lot of machines some diesel in ireland is rated for -10 degrees no good for this year

the 300's masseys have a unique different problem . there is power drop across the wiring loom which means the starter doesn't get the full 12 volts. put a relay on your ignition switch. it will solve the problem.

marlyman

cj plant agri wrote: »

as for the masseys the majority of 1990s masseys were and proved them selves as near enough scrap apart from the 390, and the 690 698 699 were even more trouble than a drug dealer.QUOTE]

thats a stretch when you consider the total production numbers for just the four models you mentioned. i think the cab was the only thing that let down the 600's -to prone to rust. Of all the masseys ive had though i never had any of them.

id love to convert a 690 back to footstep tractor though for a few tractor runs. it would be a good feeling from the seat.

yessam

Well its a 1998 MF 4270 that I have and I like the tractor and unfortunately the cold weather is not agreeing with it. Like someone said if I could leave it until 11 or 12 o clock, it will go on first touch but I need to do some work early in the morning, especially this time of the year. Does anyone find this with the 42 series. Is this mainly a Massey problem.

cormywormy

My 390 was a bad starter the cold mornings. To cure it i got a new heavy duty battery, alternator, starter and glow plug. Solved it, starts no bother now even on the coldest mornings with a bit of heat.

tabby aspreme

during the bad weather in january i put a gallon of petrol into each diesel tank including the car and van had no bother with frozen diesel

tismesoitis

we have a mf 290 1983 model 2wd and a 1990 398. 290 needs 30 seconds on the heater plugs b4 she'l start. the 398 is the best i've ever seen to start no nood 4 heater even during -12 half a turn and she's away. by the way they both need a paint job especially rims but think i'l touch them all up....where is the best place to get the mf paint and can anyone talk us through preparing the surface for paint?

Casinoking

cj plant agri wrote: »

i have a 6600 and a 10 and as you said not as quick to get out of the bed in the cold morning as id like, the 66 jd had problems with the heads, from the 6600 right up to the 6630 which jd never really sorted properly, all it would take is a heavy duty head gasget, but they never seem to have engineerd it. dont know why a fabulos tractor does the work of the country. but out of all the 6000 series they were the most tempremental.

as for the masseys the majority of 1990s masseys were and proved them selves as near enough scrap apart from the 390, and the 690 698 699 were even more trouble than a drug dealer, (i dont mean to run any mans tractor down, i know this from my own expierence) but heater plugs mean alot, and if the temp goes below -5 or even -10 the diesel can freeze you know ,so this would be the same as an airlock, and would cause the lift pump to starve itself.

might seem mad but i have been known to light a fire with a meal bag beside machines on such mornings, far enough away as not to do damage, but close enough to warm up the lines.

Worst tractor I ever had was a 6600, if the 6610 was mine I'd put a match to it and be done with it. However I was only giving him a hand for a couple of hours so I don't think I'd get away with anything that drastic....!!

rooney32

marlyman how would you go about fitting that relay definetly worth a try.

Fishtits

Hi all,

I currently make my crust doing starters/alternators/electrics etc. The following comments are based on my experience.

I’m not saying they’re the solution to your particular problem – without diagnosing a machine on the spot you can never be sure.

Tractors that won’t start on a cold morning are a common issue. I’d say 85% of the time its down to a duff battery. Due to the price of lead over the last few years the amount of “reasonably” or “budget” priced batteries sold has soared, many of these are produced in Asia which in the main doesn’t suffer -15 winters. I won’t start listing brands but if your battery is not from a manufacturer that supplies a new vehicle production line it’s a hit and miss. End of story. I learned the hard way, pay cheap, pay twice. A decent OEM battery, looked after will and does, last 10 years. The key to getting good service life out of any battery is simple – keep it charged, a battery that is left flat for a week or two is hammered.

Connections; a previous poster mentions installing a relay on the start feed from the ignition switch. This will not solve slow or lazy starting. The power supply to the motor – which drives the starter – does not go via the ignition switch, it’s the direct cable from the battery positive. The ign supply just engages the starter.

If you have an ign switch problem it usually presents as either intermittent operation or a “machine gun” sound when you operate the starter. If your starter is clicking, your ign switch is usually OK.

Keep your contacts, both earth and live spotless and tight. Take them off, give them a polish with emery or a wire brush. Just because they’re tight doesn’t mean that they’re good. Pay particular attention to the screw in type battery terminals.

A fully charged battery is in or about 12.6V, a mildly scruffy connection can reduce that to 12.2V, sounds like a little, in reality 12.2V is equivalent to a 50% charged battery.

I hope this helps.

Sorry if I’ve p*ssed off some people, just telling it as I find it, day in, day out.

PS, an afterthought re the reference to the mechanic who recommended the Iskra
Starter, this is a reference to the upgrading of many manufacturers (including JD) who joined the masses and moving to high speed reduction geared starters. These starters are far more efficient than the standard direct drive type – be warned however that they are more expensive. Iskra is a first class manufacturer, OE on many machines, they seem to be a Bosch shadow, except they are more expensive and spares are scarce and very expensive.

The Bosch equivalent is available for many applications, lesson: don’t ask for Iskra by name, just ask for the reduction geared starter.

Cheers,

pakalasa

Great last post there, sounds like you really know your stuff.

One thing I found really great this year was the use of an electric hot air gun at the air in-take. I place it back just far enough so that it doesnt smoother the engine when it gets going. Bought it in Woodies for just 19Euro, it's 1.8 Kw.

The other thing too is to give the engine a few turns initially even before using the heat bulb. I read somewhere before that this stimulates the battery chemically so that you get a better boost of power later.

marlyman

Fishtits wrote: »

Hi all,
Connections; a previous poster mentions installing a relay on the start feed from the ignition switch. This will not solve slow or lazy starting. The power supply to the motor – which drives the starter – does not go via the ignition switch, it’s the direct cable from the battery positive. The ign supply just engages the starter.

If you have an ign switch problem it usually presents as either intermittent operation or a “machine gun” sound when you operate the starter. If your starter is clicking, your ign switch is usually OK.
Cheers,

I actually stated that this applied only to Massey 300's tractors if your read my post.

In Detail this is due to a power drop accross the loom which brings the voltage from 14V back to 11.5V at the time of startings. This burns out the solenoid and causing the starter to click. A very simple and inexpensive realy kit is available to solve this problem. Again only in a 390.

Also worth noting - a gear reduction starter does not like extended cranking. If your tractor is hard started a gear reduction starter will spin the engine faster but it will burn out a lot quicker. forget 20 second cranking as it wont take it.

pm me with you address if you want to know where your nearest place to get that relay kit is

Fishtits

I did read your post.

Originally Posted by rooney32 [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Shaun/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
the 300 series masseys are very hard to start we had to jump ours on the real cold mornings. a local mechanic is recommending using a high speed iskra starter and a 665 battery (900 amp).also the heater plugs are giving a bit of trouble they are heating up but the diesel isnt getting through.

this year the diesel froze in a lot of machines some diesel in ireland is rated for -10 degrees no good for this year

“the 300's masseys have a unique different problem . there is power drop across the wiring loom which means the starter doesn't get the full 12 volts. put a relay on your ignition switch. it will solve the problem.”

Your post was misleading.

The “power drop” across the loom you mention refers to the supply to the solenoid from the ign switch, i.e. the command to the starter to operate. If it is poor then the solenoid may have weak contact pressure which leads over time to burnt contacts/high resistance. This in turn leads to lazy starting.

Placing a relay in the system at this point will achieve at best temporary relief or more likely nothing as the damage has been done. The solenoid contacts should be replaced at the same time as the relay installation as they have been damaged.

Regarding your comments on the geared starter not liking long cranking periods, I agree totally. They are soft when it comes to extended cranking, but, many slow starting engines are much better when they are cranked over quicker, and tend to start.

If it doesn’t start with a decent whip over, I think its unfair to blame the starter/battery etc.

As an aside, I find New Holland the worst offenders in the cold starting league, only cured by replacing the main cables…


Cheers,

snowman707

tabby aspreme wrote: »

during the bad weather in january i put a gallon of petrol into each diesel tank including the car and van had no bother with frozen diesel

keep putting petrol into diesel and you will have bigger worries than starting problems

corkcomp

snowman707 wrote: »

keep putting petrol into diesel and you will have bigger worries than starting problems

+1

put a gallon of kerosene into full tank of diesel, it will stop freezing and wont do any harm at that concentration

8560

we have a old cat loader which would turn and turn but not fire in cold. answer. put a infra red lamp over injection pump for night. it then starts like its middle of summer. at 6 in morning at -10. block heaters are v common in usa

corkcomp

8560 wrote: »

we have a old cat loader which would turn and turn but not fire in cold. answer. put a infra red lamp over injection pump for night. it then starts like its middle of summer. at 6 in morning at -10. block heaters are v common in usa

its not a Cat 910 is it?

8560

corkcomp wrote: »

its not a Cat 910 is it?

it is a it12 which is similar. do you have similar prob. i am not complaining, it has done 15000 hrs

corkcomp

8560 wrote: »

it is a it12 which is similar. do you have similar prob. i am not complaining, it has done 15000 hrs

used to have, but the 910 got a total rebuild (liners, pistons, bearings etc) about two years ago at 16K hours. it starts now first turn with no heat, even at -10.

id never heard of an it12 before, just looked it up there, whats difference between it and 910?

8560

corkcomp wrote: »

used to have, but the 910 got a total rebuild (liners, pistons, bearings etc) about two years ago at 16K hours. it starts now first turn with no heat, even at -10.

id never heard of an it12 before, just looked it up there, whats difference between it and 910?

i dont know the difference. i think its the model after the 910. it looks the same, it was made in japan . did you have to do up the tran as well. mine is 89 machine

corkcomp

8560 wrote: »

i dont know the difference. i think its the model after the 910. it looks the same, it was made in japan . did you have to do up the tran as well. mine is 89 machine

nope tran wasnt touched but the torque isnt 100% now, but still good enough. the 910 is 1984 machine! it will have to be kep going no matter what cos one of the potential drivers is (very) old now and at least he is used to the 910, anything strange could = disaster

8560

corkcomp wrote: »

nope tran wasnt touched but the torque isnt 100% now, but still good enough. the 910 is 1984 machine! it will have to be kep going no matter what cos one of the potential drivers is (very) old now and at least he is used to the 910, anything strange could = disaster

thats a high machine for a old man to climb into, buy him a NH teleporter and i will take the cat engine off you for free:)