FFXIII - First Impressions *probable spoilers*

Burning Eclipse

I've 40 hours put in now, just left Chapter 11 behind.

Highwind and Army of One are amazing... makes it difficult to choose one party leader and stick to her!

Out of interest, once you have a choice in the matter, who was your leader?

Did anybody answer something other than Lightning or Fang to that question?

Raze_them_all

I swapped between snow and vanille/hope tbh

Burning Eclipse

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I swapped between snow and vanille/hope tbh

Any reason in particular? Snow as a Com and the other two as Rav, I presume?? I found sentinel more useful if someone else was using it, not my party leader. Fang is the best Com in the game from what I hear, not sure who the best Rav is?

Raze_them_all

I never used fang tbh,

I'll try to remember, I'd swap snow between commando,rav,sab and sentinal depending on the fight, lightning would me rav/com/medic and vanille/hope would be sab/synergist(depending on which I'd use) then medic, then rev then commando

If vanille/hope was my partyleader it meant I was using their eideloin

Burning Eclipse

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I never used fang tbh,

I'll try to remember, I'd swap snow between commando,rav,sab and sentinal depending on the fight, lightning would me rav/com/medic and vanille/hope would be sab/synergist(depending on which I'd use) then medic, then rev then commando

If vanille/hope was my partyleader it meant I was using their eideloin

Oh ya, good call!! Hecaton is very strong!! Any tips for me on getting death to work??;)

Raze_them_all

Yeah he was my strongest for ages, next thing I know alexander had over 4000 strength so started using hope.

If yer fighting an adamntoise go in as a sab, summon Hecaton straight away, this'll knock him down,use his finishing move straight away, have another sab in the team, cast defuffs on him then spam death, apparently when he's down and debuffed the success rate goes up.

If it's neoochu have healers and one sab and spam like fook!!

jamescd

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

Out of interest, once you have a choice in the matter, who was your leader?

Did anybody answer something other than Lightning or Fang to that question?

Hope FTW Sometimes I swap Snow for Fang because he is a better Sentinel or Vanille for Lightning because she is a better Medic etc., but I rarely take off Hope. I prefer to control him myself so that I can pick and choose what buffs to put on, what spells to cast and all that. This helped me a lot on Mission 54 (Gigantuar). The AI controlled Hope just kept casting Cure even though there was hardly any need to and with Snow unable to defend, Fang and Hope just kept dying soon after. So I decided to manually control Hope and as soon as that 10,000 Needles attack lands on Snow, I'd immediately cast Esuna so he'd be ready to block the next attack. Didn't even have to use Cure once because Snow has massive HP but the stupid AI kept casting it anyway :pac:

Raze_them_all wrote: »

If it's neoochu have healers and one sab and spam like fook!!

Funny you mention that cause that's exactly what I did . I used a Sentinel and Medic though with Vanille just spamming Death. Took me a couple of tries because Death just wouldn't land on that bugger, but on what seemed like my 100th try Death finally worked in like after 2 casts.

Thanks to that Growth Egg, I get 80k CP for each Adamantoise kill . I can kill them much faster now because I don't have to use Death anymore so I'm getting CP like crazy :eek:

Did you get everything done before you traded it in btw (missions, achievements, etc.) ?

Raze_them_all

jamescd wrote: »

Did you get everything done before you traded it in btw (missions, achievements, etc.) ?

Nope, I hated the game all the way through, Hell Gran pulse only provided about an hour of not boredom, I told myself I'd get 1000 GS in it but after 74 hours I couldn't stick it, I had to get rid of it. It disturbs me that I loathe this game and has gone on my top 5 list of worst games ever played and number one on regret paying full price for!

Xluna

Raze_them_all wrote: »

So disappointed with Square enix as of late, While last oddessy was a good game it was boring with all the reading and had no characters you cared about, FF was my last hope for SE, It saddens me that they've basterdised the series for money since X-2 rather than make the games for gamers like they used to.

Lost Odyssey was'nt made by Square though. Personally I like the literture in L.O. Nicely presented and not too much to read,unlike Dragon Age.
I agree though that the semi porno that was FFX-2 was a bad sign of things to come.

Raze_them_all

Xluna wrote: »

Lost Odyssey was'nt made by Square though. Personally I like the literture in L.O. Nicely presented and not too much to read,unlike Dragon Age.
I agree though that the semi porno that was FFX-2 was a bad sign of things to come.

Sorry you are right I was thinking of last remnant!
FFX-2 was a a badish game, 12 gave me hope till i played it, also a badish game....13 was just dreadful

Xluna

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Sorry you are right I was thinking of last remnant!
FFX-2 was a a badish game, 12 gave me hope till i played it, also a badish game....13 was just dreadful

Oh yeah Last Remnant was unplayable and don't forget those awful two secret of mana games for the DS. Way to kill two of my favourite RPG franchises Square. I'd be happy now if they just keep on remaking their good older games on the portables and if a Dragon Quest and a Suikoden game comes to the 360/PS3.

Memnoch

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

Any reason in particular? Snow as a Com and the other two as Rav, I presume?? I found sentinel more useful if someone else was using it, not my party leader. Fang is the best Com in the game from what I hear, not sure who the best Rav is?

End game Fang has the highest str and makes the best com, Hope make the best rav/healer + he can buff so he's a must. The last slot usually goes to lightning for her chain building goodness, but obviously you need vanille for death spam if your farming adamntoise.

The tips regarding death above are right... a couple more pointers... wait till chapter 13.

Level both VANILLE AND FANG to Role level 5 as sabateurs (this helps A LOT). Start with the Espionage paradigm, i.e. Vanille and Fang as sabs and Hope as synergist. Summon, then (on ps3) his select to skip the sequence. Hit Square to go gestalt, select again then hit triangle to use finishing move and dismiss eidlon. Now spam death with vanille and let hope and fang do their thing. IF you haven't killed it by then, it will probably stand up a little after hope finishes putting 6 buffs on each character. Now, if you want you can just retry the fight at this point, though I usually keep going. You'll have to use the attrition paradigm most of hte time, vanille as sab, hope medic, fang sent.

I did find that initially it was very hit or miss and could take ages to kill him. Since I got both fang and hope to level 5 sab, and have good stats on them I'm killing it within 1-3 minutes pretty much every time.

bokkenspiel

hi

ShaneU

This thread is for "first" impressions, not post spoilers from the last three chapters without a spoiler tag :rolleyes:

Burning Eclipse

ShaneU wrote: »

This thread is for "first" impressions, not post spoilers from the last three chapters without a spoiler tag :rolleyes:

The game has been out for over a fortnight now, and this thread has clearly become a general discussion thread.

Memnoch

ShaneU wrote: »

This thread is for "first" impressions, not post spoilers from the last three chapters without a spoiler tag :rolleyes:

Sorry, I was using spoiler tags initially, but then it did seem to turn into a general discussion thread, so I gave up

joe123

How many levels of the crystarium thing are there?

I hate how its locked untill you progress into the story.

Im just at cocoon now for the second time think im at stage 9....

jamescd

Just one more level, it will be unlocked after you beat the final boss

joe123

Is there any point in me warping back to gran pulse? Ive maxed out three roles for each character so theres not much else to do untill I unlock the final crystarium stage...

Raze_them_all

nope the final boss is piss easy

Burning Eclipse

Raze_them_all wrote:

I loathe this game and has gone on my top 5 list of worst games ever played

Why is your gamerpic of Hope if you really mean the above... something is amiss?! I don't mean to be shitty about it, but it seems strange to be advertising one of the games characters when you dislike it so much.

jamescd

Lol my gamerpic is Hope as well

I have Hope, Vanille and Sazh gamerpics unlocked, anyone know how to unlock the rest?

GothPunk

I really don't get the hate for this game going on here, it has one of the greatest battle systems to grace an RPG, the soundtrack is fantastic, the characters actually develop into something likeable and the art direction of the entire world, from the enemies to the environments, is top notch. FFX is one of my favourite Final Fantasy games, I can see FFXIII trumping it.

jamescd

Only Raze _them_all hates it.......everyone else in this thread seems to love it (in the last few pages at least lol) :P

Raze_them_all

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

Why is your gamerpic of Hope if you really mean the above... something is amiss?! I don't mean to be shitty about it, but it seems strange to be advertising one of the games characters when you dislike it so much.

I have it changed, except i don't have live in my house so it won't appear till i get onto live(I live in the fookin sticks)

jamescd wrote: »

Lol my gamerpic is Hope as well

I have Hope, Vanille and Sazh gamerpics unlocked, anyone know how to unlock the rest?

You have to beat the suped up version of adamantoise,(happens after the last ceith stone) have the all items achievement(or else all crystilarium achievement) and then all the achievements unlocks serahs

GothPunk wrote: »

I really don't get the hate for this game going on here, it has one of the greatest battle systems to grace an RPG, the soundtrack is fantastic, the characters actually develop into something likeable and the art direction of the entire world, from the enemies to the environments, is top notch. FFX is one of my favourite Final Fantasy games, I can see FFXIII trumping it.

I think I'm honestly one of the few to prefer the battle systems where you get the menu to choose what to do, in this i just constantly hit auto battle, It didn't make me feel that just spamming a was negative, didn't give me the impression that what I did had that big of an effect

jamescd wrote: »

Only Raze _them_all hates it.......everyone else in this thread seems to love it (in the last few pages at least lol) :P

I think I just expect more from FF, It's by far my favourite series of any game, I've easily clocked up over 800hours playing the series and for the most part I've loved the characters, the story and have felt a connection to the games, not with this one though.

Burning Eclipse

GothPunk wrote: »

I really don't get the hate for this game going on here, it has one of the greatest battle systems to grace an RPG, the soundtrack is fantastic, the characters actually develop into something likeable and the art direction of the entire world, from the enemies to the environments, is top notch. FFX is one of my favourite Final Fantasy games, I can see FFXIII trumping it.

Me too. I have my issues with it, fair enough, but I can say that about just about every RPG I've ever played (except Final Fantasy IX and Skies of Arcadia - they are flawless ). I couldn't agree more about the battle system; it is utterly satisfying, so much so that I can't see how people would objectively fault it. Music is the best in the series with the exception of VIII imo (love that score), and the characters actually developed in a meaningful way, especially in comparison to XII. Well, maybe not Vanille

jamescd

Raze_them_all wrote: »

You have to beat the suped up version of adamantoise,(happens after the last ceith stone) have the all items achievement(or else all crystilarium achievement) and then all the achievements unlocks serahs

Cheers mate

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I think I just expect more from FF, It's by far my favourite series of any game, I've easily clocked up over 800hours playing the series and for the most part I've loved the characters, the story and have felt a connection to the games, not with this one though.

Yeah I can understand that, I felt the story was a little lacking too. Although for the most part, I enjoyed the game while I was doing the missions/main storyline. Now that I'm just going for the achievements, the game is just one big grind so I'm hella bored. God knows how many adamantoise's I've killed at this stage :pac:

Raze_them_all

jamescd wrote: »

Cheers mate



Yeah I can understand that, I felt the story was a little lacking too. Although for the most part, I enjoyed the game while I was doing the missions/main storyline. Now that I'm just going for the achievements, the game is just one big grind so I'm hella bored. God knows how many adamantoise's I've killed at this stage :pac:

You have to hold every weapon and item, which means evolving the ones that do, also there's a missable item in the game (afaik) which means it gets crazy repetitive going for that achievement

joe123

GothPunk wrote: »

I really don't get the hate for this game going on here, it has one of the greatest battle systems to grace an RPG, the soundtrack is fantastic, the characters actually develop into something likeable and the art direction of the entire world, from the enemies to the environments, is top notch. FFX is one of my favourite Final Fantasy games, I can see FFXIII trumping it.

Speak for yourself. Of all the Final fanasy games ive played this battle system is my least favourite.

First of all its really hard to see how much damage each specific attack does.As most of the time it looks like numbers on top of numbers and you cant make anything out.

Secondly its really annoying having to redo paradigms EVERY time when you change your battle team.

Thirdly Id much rather have control over all my members and know what exactly im doing.

Fourthly I HATE how the majority of the time each time you change paradigm mid battle it does the animation of going through each member switching to the new system.

I Really think its over rated and alot of battles are so boring because of this system.

I also think the Cyrstarium system is the worst levelling up system ever and I really dislike the upgrading weapons craic. I like change during a game this long but ive been using the same weapon from the start as its more powerful than any other ive picked up along the way.

And....

The last levels design is absolute muck

Edit: And the eidolins are a waste of time. Im at the final boss and used them about 5 times in the whole game.

GothPunk

joe123 wrote: »

First of all its really hard to see how much damage each specific attack does.As most of the time it looks like numbers on top of numbers and you cant make anything out.

Then press R1 to bring up the enemy info screen - you can see how much HP the enemy has remaining and it's total HP there.

joe123 wrote: »

Secondly its really annoying having to redo paradigms EVERY time when you change your battle team.

More annoying than having to re-jig your accessories and weapons after a battle team change like in other FF games and JRPGs?

joe123 wrote: »

Thirdly Id much rather have control over all my members and know what exactly im doing.

Fair enough, but I would have thought most JRPG fans have gotten used to this system by now from playing Persona 3 etc. This is why the paradigm system is so good, because it makes the AI work the way you want it to. It rewards you for using Libra, setting and using the right paradigms. It's not like you're sitting there praying for Hope to use Thundara; if you've used Libra and you have him set as Ravager he'll be using Thunder and Thundara where appropriate. The paradigm system gives you control over your party, just not direct control. Besides, the battle system is too fast paced for you to be able to control more than one character.

joe123 wrote: »

Fourthly I HATE how the majority of the time each time you change paradigm mid battle it does the animation of going through each member switching to the new system.

It does the each member view once per battle and then the single character focus each subsequent time. Sure your ATB is usually filling up whilst it does the paradigm shift camera animation so it's not like you're missing out on game time while it happens.

These 4 examples are a bit of a stretch dude, it's like you're looking really hard to find fault with a battle system that is really very good.

joe123 wrote: »

I Really think its over rated and alot of battles are so boring because of this system.

If there is one thing that the FFXIII battle system is most definitely not, is boring. The paradigm system keeps you on the edge of your seat when you're fighting any half way difficult enemy. Constantly juggling buffers, debuffers, chain builders, tank/mage combo's etc is what makes the battle system so much fun. There's also the fact that unlike most FF games, status effects actually mean something and can impact battle, and not every enemy is weak to a specific element, but sometimes a specific debuff. The Eidolon battles and the Juggernauts are an example of what I mean by this. Based on your skill a battle can last 30 seconds or five minutes. In fact the entire game is structured so that you win battles by having the right strategy and knowing the enemies weakness and executing it all quickly.

joe123 wrote: »

I also think the Cyrstarium system is the worst levelling up system ever and I really dislike the upgrading weapons craic. I like change during a game this long but ive been using the same weapon from the start as its more powerful than any other ive picked up along the way.

Each weapon has unique status effects and such, and becomes much more powerful as you upgrade them. So you could very easily change your weapon, spend your upgrade items and end up with something kickass and very different from the starter equipment.

I can see why someone like you who has stated their love for grinding and over leveling their characters would hate the Crystarium system, but I think it works. By enforcing a level cap throughout the game it makes battles more interesting and challenging. I think it's a much better way to achieve this than what Persona 3 or Lost Odyssey have used.

The battle system in FFX is one of the most praised of all the FF games. I think that FFXIII takes it and makes it much more interesting, more dynamic and more punishing. Instead of switching characters in and out during battle, you switch paradigms, a much deeper system. Instead of aiming for an 'Overdrive', you try to build up your chain bonus and stagger the enemy. The FFXIII battle system is more complex than that of FFX, and yet they haven't taken away any of the fun or the challenge from that battle system. Sure you can sit there with one or two characters as healers and chip away at the enemy for ages, but the system rewards you for finishing battles as quickly as possible.

Final Fantasy XIII takes the ATB system from previous games and gives it a right good kick up the arse. It has improved on it in almost every way.

Your complaints seem to be focused on wanting Final Fantasy games to stick to a specific formula. This is a terrible thing to wish for. If there's one thing that'll kill a game series for sure, it is sticking to a very specific formula. It's like those people who complain when every FPS isn't like Call of Duty.

The fact that the Final Fantasy games are always trying something different is what keeps bringing me back to the games. Whilst I'm sure they upset a few die hard fans, I'm surprised at how many people I know or on my PSN friends list who haven't played a JRPG in a really long time or don't like JRPGs and yet they bought FFXIII and are loving it. JRPGs need these new fans.

Do you know what I hear them praising? The excellent fast paced battle system.

bokkenspiel

just proving that ff13 is the best

joe123

GothPunk wrote: »

Then press R1 to bring up the enemy info screen - you can see how much HP the enemy has remaining and it's total HP there.

No I mean, I attack with Thunder....I cant see how much damage it does as theres a load of other numbers on top of it so they get all mixed up during it attacks. Its VERY hard make out how much damage your taking with each attack.

More annoying than having to re-jig your accessories and weapons after a battle team change like in other FF games and JRPGs?

How often do you do that? Come on in FF games you usually come across a new weapon every two hours or so. And yes I liked equiping new weapons etc seeing their new effects/damage/what they look like. Besides you still have to equip in this! And the bloody leveling up weapons isnt all that!

Fair enough, but I would have thought most JRPG fans have gotten used to this system by now from playing Persona 3 etc. This is why the paradigm system is so good, because it makes the AI work the way you want it to. It rewards you for using Libra, setting and using the right paradigms. It's not like you're sitting there praying for Hope to use Thundara; if you've used Libra and you have him set as Ravager he'll be using Thunder and Thundara where appropriate. The paradigm system gives you control over your party, just not direct control. Besides, the battle system is too fast paced for you to be able to control more than one character.

But for most mob fights as you trawl through the narrow corridors you just do the same thing over and over waiting for your party to slowy grind down the enemy using the same paradigm then switching to the other paradigm.Usually a fight consists of the same two every fight.

It does the each member view once per battle and then the single character focus each subsequent time. Sure your ATB is usually filling up whilst it does the paradigm shift camera animation so it's not like you're missing out on game time while it happens.

I could of sworn it happens every time I change paradigms in a fight. The only time I can skip the animation is when im in the air.Its bloody tedious seeing the same animation over and over.

If there is one thing that the FFXIII battle system is most definitely not, is boring. The paradigm system keeps you on the edge of your seat when you're fighting any half way difficult enemy. Constantly juggling buffers, debuffers, chain builders, tank/mage combo's etc is what makes the battle system so much fun.

Well this is where we just have to disaggree. I found it pretty boring selecting the same options over and over. Id find myself just tapping A constantly during a fight. I used to like how I could select Thundaga then use a different attack next time round. In this all it consists of is....**tap a tap a tap a tap a press lb select decimation tap a press lb back to relentless assault....zzzzz....And not wanting to change my party because I couldnt face setting up paradigms again. If they let you save more than 6 and stop resetting them then maybe it wouldnt of been so bad.

There's also the fact that unlike most FF games, status effects actually mean something and can impact battle, and not every enemy is weak to a specific element, but sometimes a specific debuff. The Eidolon battles and the Juggernauts are an example of what I mean by this. Based on your skill a battle can last 30 seconds or five minutes. In fact the entire game is structured so that you win battles by having the right strategy and knowing the enemies weakness and executing it all quickly.

No pretty much every battle I had id start with a sab/Com/syn. Id have casted deprotect and imperil so their weak, my party would have haste and then all id do is have to switch to relentless assault. Some fights you knew youd win but they just lasted too long.

Each weapon has unique status effects and such, and becomes much more powerful as you upgrade them. So you could very easily change your weapon, spend your upgrade items and end up with something kickass and very different from the starter equipment.

It wasnt as easy as that though. To upgrade your weapons properly you need a hell of a lot of gill. Gill that you will never get untill your able to take on the admantoise to actually recover decent spoils to sell.

I can see why someone like you who has stated their love for grinding and over leveling their characters would hate the Crystarium system, but I think it works. By enforcing a level cap throughout the game it makes battles more interesting and challenging. I think it's a much better way to achieve this than what Persona 3 or Lost Odyssey have used.

Maybe as I hate with a passion the way Oblivion and Fallout etc have introduced this enemy scaling/levelling up with you. But in ffxiii it just held you down because the game didnt want you getting to powerfull. In my eyes the game should reward those willing to put in the effort to grind.

Your complaints seem to be focused on wanting Final Fantasy games to stick to a specific formula. This is a terrible thing to wish for. If there's one thing that'll kill a game series for sure, it is sticking to a very specific formula. It's like those people who complain when every FPS isn't like Call of Duty.

The fact that the Final Fantasy games are always trying something different is what keeps bringing me back to the games. Whilst I'm sure they upset a few die hard fans, I'm surprised at how many people I know or on my PSN friends list who haven't played a JRPG in a really long time or don't like JRPGs and yet they bought FFXIII and are loving it. JRPGs need these new fans.

Do you know what I hear them praising? The excellent fast paced battle system.

Well if it makes any difference I loved the gambit system in FFxii and that was a complete overhaul on 10. Saying that the best system imo was ix where it was strategic and i loved how you could learn abilities from weapons.

To be honest I dont care if new fans like the new battle system. I found it boring and repetitive. People might find that ff10 or 9 boring and repetitive but sure no one agrees on everything.

Mr. K

I'm on Chapter 11 and I like just about everything about the game. Feeling a bit lost at the moment though, since the area I'm in is

so vast compared to the straight roads I've been following up to now

. Is that even a spoiler?! Anyway, I expect this to rank among my favourite FF games, unless it all goes pear-shaped after this point!

bugs

All in all i find the battle system quite good but .....
I don't mind that the AI controls your team-mates but its become clear that on occasion they prioritise their actions in ways you might not want.
For example, a low HP character suffering with deprotect will always get cure thrown at them before esuna, and in certain cases removing the deprotect would have been far more beneficial.

Similar to FF12, it would have been nice to have been able to interrupt your team and force them to change their current turn action.
More often than not i find i have to switch to a paradigm that will give me the option to throw out the required debuff, but its hardly the best option.

CodeMonkey

joe123 wrote: »

I could of sworn it happens every time I change paradigms in a fight. The only time I can skip the animation is when im in the air.Its bloody tedious seeing the same animation over and over.

You always see the change paradigm animation the first time you change paradigm in a fight. I see it as penalty for not being able to kill thrash monsters with your default paradigm. The game has a very strong emphasis on fast kills and battles.

Changing paradigm though recharges your atb and you can use this to your advantage in a tough fight. Highlight the paradigm you want to change to, wait til your character finishes the current attacks, switch, and instant full atb.

Well this is where we just have to disaggree. I found it pretty boring selecting the same options over and over. Id find myself just tapping A constantly during a fight. I used to like how I could select Thundaga then use a different attack next time round. In this all it consists of is....**tap a tap a tap a tap a press lb select decimation tap a press lb back to relentless assault....zzzzz....And not wanting to change my party because I couldnt face setting up paradigms again. If they let you save more than 6 and stop resetting them then maybe it wouldnt of been so bad.

The system also rewards you with fast kills. If they're no challenge then stop fighting thrash monsters and stop grinding. The problem is you love old fashioned jrpgs where you need to grind and you feel like you have to kill everything. Most monsters you can run past.

It wasnt as easy as that though. To upgrade your weapons properly you need a hell of a lot of gill. Gill that you will never get untill your able to take on the admantoise to actually recover decent spoils to sell.

I've done next to no grinding and only looked into upgrading weapons at chapter 12. I was able to upgrade at least 2 weapons to maxed out tier 2.

Maybe as I hate with a passion the way Oblivion and Fallout etc have introduced this enemy scaling/levelling up with you. But in ffxiii it just held you down because the game didnt want you getting to powerfull. In my eyes the game should reward those willing to put in the effort to grind.

Why? Grinding is not fun.

joe123

CodeMonkey wrote: »

You always see the change paradigm animation the first time you change paradigm in a fight. I see it as penalty for not being able to kill thrash monsters with your default paradigm. The game has a very strong emphasis on fast kills and battles.

Changing paradigm though recharges your atb and you can use this to your advantage in a tough fight. Highlight the paradigm you want to change to, wait til your character finishes the current attacks, switch, and instant full atb.


The system also rewards you with fast kills. If they're no challenge then stop fighting thrash monsters and stop grinding. The problem is you love old fashioned jrpgs where you need to grind and you feel like you have to kill everything. Most monsters you can run past.

I've done next to no grinding and only looked into upgrading weapons at chapter 12. I was able to upgrade at least 2 weapons to maxed out tier 2.


Why? Grinding is not fun.

Lol. If you can get through monsters without changing paradigms then you are doing something I clearly couldnt. I was maxed out and still had to switch paradigms or else fights would just go on ages. You could still beat the monster but instead of making the fight last 30 seconds it would last 2 minutes.

Im assuming your not as far into the game or else your not quite saying it how it is regards you able to get fast kills.

Grinding can be fun at times im not saying all the time. But this game basically doesnt really need you to grind as usually once the crystarium expands you can max it out. As long as you didnt avoid any fights in your path in ff13 youd have no problem.

CodeMonkey

joe123 wrote: »

Lol. If you can get through monsters without changing paradigms then you are doing something I clearly couldnt. I was maxed out and still had to switch paradigms or else fights would just go on ages. You could still beat the monster but instead of making the fight last 30 seconds it would last 2 minutes.

Im assuming your not as far into the game or else your not quite saying it how it is regards you able to get fast kills.

Grinding can be fun at times im not saying all the time. But this game basically doesnt really need you to grind as usually once the crystarium expands you can max it out. As long as you didnt avoid any fights in your path in ff13 youd have no problem.

I didn't say you don't have to change paradigms. I've finished the game without maxing out any crystarium paths for anyone. Only need to change paradigms on a regular basis when I got to chapter 11. It's only a must against the harder monsters in chapter 12 and 13.

All I am saying is that the game encourages you in a lot of ways to get fast kills.

jamescd

Finally got all the achievements w00t I was kinda worried I missed some accessories for the treasure hunter achievement so I was really happy when I got it. And jesus Long Gui is one tough bugger, took me a lot of tries to finally take one down for the achievement.

Xluna

Bah, I need a break from this. I'm going back to Lost Odyssey for awhile-a real Final Fantasy game.:p

BeansBeans

I was really loving it but at the end of Chapter 6 now and its just too bloody disjointed. Come on for ffs stop splitting people up! Very linear but still great stuf. Now if they would get the story moving a bit faster. I love the graphics its beautiful looking. Love the new combat system too its brilliant. But i get the feeling squeenix were trying to be too clever with the story or something

johnny_ultimate

Hitting the 20 hour mark now, and still not sure what my feelings are. I definitely don't hate it (the battle system is too good for that), but that are times when I definitely don't particularly like it either.

The battle system is being rightly praised. When it works, it works great. While most battles can be won by simply mixing Commando and Ravenger skills (with a medic when needed) it still is fun, especially on those bits when you're outnumbered, and strategy comes into play. Yeah, you can more or less automate the repetitive bits (which in a way is a good thing - I'm glad I only have to press auto-battle rather than the water command four times) but there is strategy. The only class I consider a serious dud is Sentinel (I ****ing hate sentinel class :pac:) but in general the characters act as they should. There were moments in Persona 3, for example, when lack of control meant an ally helped me lose a battle. That doesn't happen here - if a specific character is in serious danger, the medic will help. All you need to do is be in the right paradigm.

That said...

I still feel the game's pacing is all-off. Being forced to switch teams so often - and customised paradigms switching too, which is infuriating - makes it hard for me to relate and get used to the characters. I think the Lightning / Fang / Hope combo works for me, so it annoys me when I have to go back to Razh and Vanille. It does get you used to all the characters, but I am looking forward to being able to customise my party - it shouldn't take longer than twenty hours to get to that point.

The story has some poignant moments, and yes I am growing to like some of the characters despite my initial misgivings. Story still seems unfocused though - the lack of a clear villain so far

(alright, they have just introduced a character who may take that role)

and indeed a clear protagonist (clearly meant to be Lightning, but honestly haven't had enough time with her to call her that yet) is off-putting. Really, and I'll repeat a point above, it shouldn't take twenty hours to start liking a character. That is pretty clunky storytelling.

I do agree the art-design and soundtrack are fantastic. Yet there are limits - everything is pre-defined, which can be frustrating. The repetition is my major issue so far. The gameplay is basically corridor - cutscene - corridor. This wouldn't be so annoying if there weren't so many moments when the corridors felt so damn long - there are parts when you are fighting the same enemies for around an hour. It gets a little dull.

FFXIII isn't a bad game as such, but it is a flawed one. I'm sticking with it because there are moments (mainly in combat) when the game shines, the creator's intentions clearly fulfilled. I have a feeling - and backed up by many reviewers - that soon the game will truly shine. Yet the fact that it takes twenty hours to get there is a serious flaw - that is a lot of time, and there is no forgiving clunky storytelling and characters, even if they do begin to shine eventually. Not everyone is going to stick with a game long for twenty hours because of a vague promise that it gets better. However, I am finding enough to continue on, even if at points it seems a bit foolish to do so.

Hopefully I'll reach

Pulse soon

(I'm guessing so) and my concerns will become less vocal. As of now, I like it, but it definitely isn't as instantly compelling as, say, Persona 4 or FFVII.

OxfordComma

I agree with most of what the above poster has said.

I'm about 30 hours in now, on Chapter 11, and I have somewhat mixed feelings on the game so far. I definitely love how the game places a large emphasis on plot (unlike the abominable FF XII.) The characters themselves are quite endearing and likeable - I particularly like Lightning and Sazh. The plot, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about - thus far, it definitely seems to be missing something. It seems to be a bit inconsistent, and it's definitely not as compelling as, for example, FF VI or FF X, and the lack of a clear villain (so far) really hurts the storyline. That's not to say it's bad, but definitely not one of the series' strongest stories. There have been several times when I was certain things were finally starting to get really good (particularly at the end of Chapter 9, really really enjoyed that bit) but then Squeenix seem to lose it somehow.

The battle system is absolutely excellent - possibly the best the series has ever seen. It's a very fun system, and offers a surprising degree of challenge for gamers to sink their teeth into. It's very fast paced, and requires a good deal of strategic thinking, quick reflexes and skill, mainly due to the Paradigm Shift system.

Out of battle, though, is where things start to get problematic. Everyone's already heard about the whole "linearity" issue with this game, undoubtedly. Before I played the game, I didn't think it'd be much of a big deal (after all, FF X, my favourite game in the whole series, was very linear too) but in reality, it really, really is a huge problem, and takes a lot away from the whole experience. The game feels as if it's on rails; even a huge city like

Palumpolum

resembles a corridor. You simply walk straight ahead for 25+ hours. The world of Cocoon, which should be an expansive environment you can immerse yourself in, is incredibly restricted, and the various locations in the game feel oddly disjointed. And the thing is, there's no real reason for this. FF X took the role of a religious pilgrimage with a clearly defined path from place to place, so there was at least a vaild explanation for its linearity; I don't really think a band of fugitives should really have such a definite path to travel.

Obviously, the graphics are phenomenal (that almost goes without saying). Voice acting's quite good too, and the music, while lacking the sheer wonder of Uematsu's stunning compositions, is pretty good (and a definite improvement over FF XII).

GothPunk

joe123 wrote: »

No I mean, I attack with Thunder....I cant see how much damage it does as theres a load of other numbers on top of it so they get all mixed up during it attacks. Its VERY hard make out how much damage your taking with each attack.

I know what you meant, there can be up to 10 different damage indicators overlaying each other, I get that. What I'm saying is that if the health bar above the enemy doesn't give enough detail for you to see how much damage you're dealing you can just press R1 and see how much damage you are dealing. It's not hard at all to see how much damage you're doing with an attack by just checking the enemy info screen in this way.

joe123 wrote: »

How often do you do that? Come on in FF games you usually come across a new weapon every two hours or so. And yes I liked equiping new weapons etc seeing their new effects/damage/what they look like. Besides you still have to equip in this! And the bloody leveling up weapons isnt all that!

That's not what I said. I said when the battle team changes, you know, when you need to swap a healer or tank in or out or the game just plain changes who is available due to the story (or if a character dies). Then you have to rejig the weapons and accessories for the characters. I don't see much difference between that and setting up and changing paradigms. It's just something that I expect in an RPG. Isn't one of the draws of playing an RPG all the micromanagement?

joe123 wrote: »

But for most mob fights as you trawl through the narrow corridors you just do the same thing over and over waiting for your party to slowy grind down the enemy using the same paradigm then switching to the other paradigm.Usually a fight consists of the same two every fight.

Slowly? If you're using paradigms correctly said mob fights shouldn't take more than 30 seconds usually, to a max of about 90 seconds. If you were using auto-battle maybe they'd go on a bit longer but if you're controlling the main character and trying to get preemptive strikes those battles are very fast. I also found some of the regular grunt fights gave me a bit of a challenge, in fact I think FFXIII is one of the few JRPGs where I've died outside of a boss fight.

joe123 wrote: »

Well this is where we just have to disaggree. I found it pretty boring selecting the same options over and over. Id find myself just tapping A constantly during a fight. I used to like how I could select Thundaga then use a different attack next time round. In this all it consists of is....**tap a tap a tap a tap a press lb select decimation tap a press lb back to relentless assault....zzzzz....And not wanting to change my party because I couldnt face setting up paradigms again. If they let you save more than 6 and stop resetting them then maybe it wouldnt of been so bad.

No pretty much every battle I had id start with a sab/Com/syn. Id have casted deprotect and imperil so their weak, my party would have haste and then all id do is have to switch to relentless assault. Some fights you knew youd win but they just lasted too long.

This is where you loose me. You can't have it both ways. Either you grind your ass off so that you can breeze through any enemy you come across, or you don't grind and you experience more of a challenge. If you grind as much as you can do you not think it's unfair to then complain when the game is too easy?

When you say that the battles were taking too long I feel like we are playing different games. You can't always use the same paradigms, what do you do against enemies that are immune to deprotect and other debuffs?

joe123 wrote: »

It wasnt as easy as that though. To upgrade your weapons properly you need a hell of a lot of gill. Gill that you will never get untill your able to take on the admantoise to actually recover decent spoils to sell.

I've upgraded a weapon for Lightning up to level 17 in my game and I haven't spent a single gil, so I'm not sure what's going on there. So now I have a weapon that lets me start with a partially full ATB bar and refills my ATB a little bit every time I hit an enemy. It's also a helluva lot more powerful than the starter weapon. Your point seemed to be that there's no point to upgrading your weapons, when clearly there is. Fair enough if you don't like leveling/upgrading stuff in an RPG.

joe123 wrote: »

Maybe as I hate with a passion the way Oblivion and Fallout etc have introduced this enemy scaling/levelling up with you. But in ffxiii it just held you down because the game didnt want you getting to powerfull. In my eyes the game should reward those willing to put in the effort to grind.

Reward you how? I would much rather play a game that rewards you for playing with the right strategy against an enemy, exploiting their weakness(es) if they have any to bring them down in a timely fashion. I used to grind my characters to be much higher than enemies but I just don't see the point anymore, it just makes games boring. From Pokemon to Persona to FFXIII, where's the fun in battle if every single battle you fight is a guaranteed win for you?

joe123 wrote: »

To be honest I dont care if new fans like the new battle system. I found it boring and repetitive. People might find that ff10 or 9 boring and repetitive but sure no one agrees on everything.

Far be it from me to ask everyone to agree on something, but it would seem to me that the majority of people, old fans and new, like if not love the battle system in FFXIII. Fair enough if you don't enjoy the game, but I stand by my comment that the battle system in FFXIII is one of the greatest battle systems in a JRPG to date. FFXIII is far from perfect but for me it's quickly becoming one of my favourite FF games, mostly due to the excellent battle system.

joe123

GothPunk wrote: »

I know what you meant, there can be up to 10 different damage indicators overlaying each other, I get that. What I'm saying is that if the health bar above the enemy doesn't give enough detail for you to see how much damage you're dealing you can just press R1 and see how much damage you are dealing. It's not hard at all to see how much damage you're doing with an attack by just checking the enemy info screen in this way.

The player shouldnt have to do that. Its bad game design to not be able to see how much damage is being dealt. Its only a minor gripe but still I like to be able to see what damage each attack does.

That's not what I said. I said when the battle team changes, you know, when you need to swap a healer or tank in or out or the game just plain changes who is available due to the story (or if a character dies). Then you have to rejig the weapons and accessories for the characters. I don't see much difference between that and setting up and changing paradigms. It's just something that I expect in an RPG. Isn't one of the draws of playing an RPG all the micromanagement?

Sure micromanagement can be fun. But the problem with the paradigms getting reset is that you will be constantly setting the same loadout over and over again just because you might change out one character.

Slowly? If you're using paradigms correctly said mob fights shouldn't take more than 30 seconds usually, to a max of about 90 seconds. If you were using auto-battle maybe they'd go on a bit longer but if you're controlling the main character and trying to get preemptive strikes those battles are very fast. I also found some of the regular grunt fights gave me a bit of a challenge, in fact I think FFXIII is one of the few JRPGs where I've died outside of a boss fight.

Well I was at the last level when I was mentioning this, so I may have been slightly off by saing all mob fights are long. But on the last level before the final fight some of them lasted ages. You knew youd win the fight but having to switch paradigms..see the animation of switching and then just tapping a constantly was a bit of a bore.

For me alot of the time was just spent tapping a whereas in other FF's youd be selecting different options. I dont know but older ff games just felt more involved. FFxiii battle system isnt bad but I just think its very over rated.

This is where you loose me. You can't have it both ways. Either you grind your ass off so that you can breeze through any enemy you come across, or you don't grind and you experience more of a challenge. If you grind as much as you can do you not think it's unfair to then complain when the game is too easy?

I wouldnt complain. If I want to level up and grind the game should let me. If I want to continue and have the game challenging it should let me too. FFxiii doesnt offer this choice it just says "ok your powerful enough for the next while".

When you say that the battles were taking too long I feel like we are playing different games. You can't always use the same paradigms, what do you do against enemies that are immune to deprotect and other debuffs?I've upgraded a weapon for Lightning up to level 17 in my game and I haven't spent a single gil, so I'm not sure what's going on there. So now I have a weapon that lets me start with a partially full ATB bar and refills my ATB a little bit every time I hit an enemy. It's also a helluva lot more powerful than the starter weapon. Your point seemed to be that there's no point to upgrading your weapons, when clearly there is

.

Theres not. I finished the game with weapons somewhere in their second phase. If you want to get ultimate weapons in this game you need those trapehezrons or whatever they're called. They are dropped by admantoises or buy them for 2 million. Something you wont have untill you complete the game.

Fair enough if you don't like leveling/upgrading stuff in an RPG.Reward you how? I would much rather play a game that rewards you for playing with the right strategy against an enemy, exploiting their weakness(es) if they have any to bring them down in a timely fashion. I used to grind my characters to be much higher than enemies but I just don't see the point anymore, it just makes games boring. From Pokemon to Persona to FFXIII, where's the fun in battle if every single battle you fight is a guaranteed win for you?

Eh but I do like levelling up!? Thats why im saying i didnt like the crystarium thing in this years FF. It was restricted and felt alot smaller than older FF's. And I just prefered finding weapons rather than needing loads of gill to have an ultimate weapon.

And im just sayin the option should of been there for people to grind if they wanted. I remember in FFX fighting seymour and needing a strategy to fight him by employing immune spells to whatever he was about to cast. Maybe it was just me but it just felt like there was more thinking involved in boss fights as opposed to 13.

In this it was usually...Synergist/sab/com....then just relentless assault....then medic medic/sab...and over and over.

Far be it from me to ask everyone to agree on something, but it would seem to me that the majority of people, old fans and new, like if not love the battle system in FFXIII. Fair enough if you don't enjoy the game, but I stand by my comment that the battle system in FFXIII is one of the greatest battle systems in a JRPG to date. FFXIII is far from perfect but for me it's quickly becoming one of my favourite FF games, mostly due to the excellent battle system.

Yep I know this battle system is getting praised, I just dont think its all that. Its good but not great. It just feels very repetitive.

CodeMonkey

joe123 wrote: »

I wouldnt complain. If I want to level up and grind the game should let me. If I want to continue and have the game challenging it should let me too. FFxiii doesnt offer this choice it just says "ok your powerful enough for the next while".

<snip>

Eh but I do like levelling up!? Thats why im saying i didnt like the crystarium thing in this years FF. It was restricted and felt alot smaller than older FF's. And I just prefered finding weapons rather than needing loads of gill to have an ultimate weapon.

And im just sayin the option should of been there for people to grind if they wanted. I remember in FFX fighting seymour and needing a strategy to fight him by employing immune spells to whatever he was about to cast. Maybe it was just me but it just felt like there was more thinking involved in boss fights as opposed to 13.

Why should the game give you the option to over level in the first play through to such an extent that you can 1 hit kill the last boss? No seriously, why? Why is that considered a good design? You can do this if you reload the save after finishing it.

While I am at it, why is it bad design when the numbers flashes by too quick to over analysis the attack/skill when it doesn't really matter since the numbers are pretty arbitrary? You know pretty quickly if you doing big damage vs small damage without seeing the actual numbers. That's all that matters.

Yep I know this battle system is getting praised, I just dont think its all that. Its good but not great. It just feels very repetitive.

Which FF fight system doesn't get repetitive? You love the ocd-ness of grinding and leveling in older FF but complain about FF13 battle system being repetitive, that is just odd. It looks like you just don't like it cause it's different.

joe123

CodeMonkey wrote: »

Why should the game give you the option to over level in the first play through to such an extent that you can 1 hit kill the last boss? No seriously, why? Why is that considered a good design? You can do this if you reload the save after finishing it.

The option should be there. If theres someone crazy enough out there to level themselves up to such an extent to be that powerful then the option should be there. For me when in the mood I should of been allowed grind...level up and go through a section of the game with relative ease untill the game caught up with me again.

While I am at it, why is it bad design when the numbers flashes by too quick to over analysis the attack/skill when it doesn't really matter since the numbers are pretty arbitrary? You know pretty quickly if you doing big damage vs small damage without seeing the actual numbers. That's all that matters.

Because maybe I want to know what damage by firaga is doing, or my newly upgraded weapon? Its just something id like to know.

Which FF fight system doesn't get repetitive? You love the ocd-ness of grinding and leveling in older FF but complain about FF13 battle system being repetitive, that is just odd. It looks like you just don't like it cause it's different.

Have to say your a great man for the assumptions! :pac:

I know there was always a repetitiveness about the battle systems but I used to like learning a new power, picking that mid fight and seeing loads of damage. In this you learn a new power but you still just tap a tap a tap a tap a.

Ive already mentioned I really liked the gambit system in 12 and that was a huge change from 10 and 9.

Mark Hamill

joe123 wrote: »

The option should be there. If theres someone crazy enough out there to level themselves up to such an extent to be that powerful then the option should be there. For me when in the mood I should of been allowed grind...level up and go through a section of the game with relative ease untill the game caught up with me again.

I dont really see the problem with how 13 gives you crystarium levels. Sure you cant really grind if you want to, but you can still build up cp to level up once new stages open up. Also, while you could grind whenever you wanted in the older final fantasies, they where usually balanced in such a way that, for instance, you couldn't just level a fire materia to fire3 at the start, as an exponential increase of exp was required for leveling up, so its not that different. I like the way 13 does it tbh, it keeps a bit of urgency in the final bossfight by restricting your level, and then opens up afterwards for all the secret boss grinding you'll need.

joe123 wrote: »

Because maybe I want to know what damage by firaga is doing, or my newly upgraded weapon? Its just something id like to know.

Then change paradigms to one where only your main attacker is attacking. Or just guage it off the health bar. The fighting is supposed to be fats, trying to be aware of every digit flying off your foe defeats the point, I think.

joe123 wrote: »

I know there was always a repetitiveness about the battle systems but I used to like learning a new power, picking that mid fight and seeing loads of damage. In this you learn a new power but you still just tap a tap a tap a tap a.

You did that in the old final fantasies aswell. You would move the cursor to magic/abilities/techniques etc, press x, choose your move, press x and you would see your move happen. I dont really see any difference in 13, you can completely ignore the auto-fight option if you wanted (you can even have the cursor default position somewhere else, through the settings menu).

CodeMonkey

joe123 wrote: »

The option should be there. If theres someone crazy enough out there to level themselves up to such an extent to be that powerful then the option should be there. For me when in the mood I should of been allowed grind...level up and go through a section of the game with relative ease untill the game caught up with me again.

Again, why? Why should this be an option in first play through? The option is there after you finish. Why shouldn't the game designer move forward, away from an older leveling system that breaks the game. Why is this bad design? Seems like the opposite to me.

By your argument, I can argue that older FF should let me grind and level to an indefinite level, why should level cap be 99?

Have to say your a great man for the assumptions! :pac:

Assumptions based on what you're saying though which is, FF13 doesn't let me do X. Older FF lets me do X. FF13 does something else I don't like. Therefore FF13 is badly designed.

I know there was always a repetitiveness about the battle systems but I used to like learning a new power, picking that mid fight and seeing loads of damage. In this you learn a new power but you still just tap a tap a tap a tap a.

My point is the repetitiveness is not that bad compared to older FF. Just pointing out that maybe that's not a problem like you suggest.

imitation

Just finished it last night, I really enjoyed it. Its incredibly slow to get started though, its quite a while before you get paradigms and even then your lumbered with limited 2 people teams for quite a while. Once you get the full freedom of 3 characters of your choice it becomes much better, you can choose fun stack ups (double sab for example, nothing like chain paining a tough enemy) and there is alot more paradigm switching. It does feel like they made a big mistake with the auto battle / gestalt option, then again, maybe I should have just not used it :pac:. Your still sweating it through the tough fights though, so I guess its no loss.

Story wise, its a fair bit cringe worthy in parts, but nowhere near as bad as you would have thought from the trailers. On the whole though I enjoyed it enough for it to pull me through the 50 hour mash fest.

Sound track is really noteworthy, some songs are a bit too sugar sweet, but they really hit the mood, battle music, foreboding, sadness, reminiscence etc.

Crystalarium is a bit of a pain, it just feels like a time sink chasing orbs around a track, and hunting down skills you may have missed. It gets worse if your close to maxing it while you try and hunt down the stats you need for a character.

Finally, the spoilerz

First of all, the Leona lewis song at the end ? God it was awful, so completely out of place, what were they thinking. Its made even worse by the fact the game has such a good score in general. I might have been in some way saddened by the ending, but hearing that wail on just made me cringe. The fact they also crystalized my two favourite characters also kind of sucked, but I guess it wouldnt be FF without some form of bitter-sweet ending, and a sequel is pretty unlikely.

I was also disappointed by obera, there was a good opportunity for back story there, but it feels like one big void, in fact most of pulse does. Considering how much they throw the story at you in the first 25 hours or so you would have think they might have rationed it more evenly.

The end boss fights were surprisingly easy (Ok I cheated a bit and got the 60% death accessory, but I`m glad I did, its lame game design to just get randomly one shotted, and all you`d do is go buy one anyway). Mainly considering that in the bit just before eden I was getting plastered by all the giant monster packs.

BeansBeans

Really enjoying it now, but i have realised whats bugging me. There hasnt been one puzzle of any sort. I quite enjoyed the puzzles in X (that was the last FF i played so stuck in my head) would have liked something like that again to change the pace.
Great stuff though.