Irish Examiner Today

Deise Tom

Don't know if this is the right section to post this but i have no doubt it will be put in the right section if it is wrong.

Did anyone see the story on the top of page 11 of the Irish Examiner Today. What disgraceful behabiour we are seeing from union leaders who are telling their members not to co-operate with Fianna Fail TD's and Councillors who are trying to help their constituents with planning etc.

I am glad this is been highlighted today. Some (by no means the vast majority) of Fianna Fail members in power may have friends in high places and have helped themselves in the past, but for unions to tell its members not to help people get planning etc is nothing but a disgrace and these people should be named and shamed. Would love to see one of these letters printed in the paper. It is my understanding that they are to be found in every council office in Ireland.

Sean O'Riordan in his report said that FF members of Cork County Council walked out of a meeting because of the letters and to be honest i believe they were right. How can they sit in a meeting where they are blatantly obstructed from doing their job.

Would love to see some journalist have the guts to have one of the letters printed and show the people of Ireland who the people are that are responsible for way this country is right now. (some of the people anyway).

ardmacha

The people in the planning offices should do their job, which is planning and the TDs should do their jobs, which is leglislating and not trying to have people skip the queue.

gandalf

TD's shouldn't be dealing with planning issues so from that point of view the unions are right.

hinault

The granting of my planning permission has been delayed by 6 weeks and counting due to this current "go slow" by the public services:mad::mad::mad:

MaceFace

This has been news for the last week or so.
While it is completly wrong to engage in targetting the government and supporters of their policies, it is normal part of the industrial dispute process.

Unless the unions are willing to go on full strike, anyone who engages in these disruptive processes should be given official warnings and if they continue, they should be redeployed or suspended from duty.

Until we have an all out strike, we will not get a resolution.

Sleepy

I'd love to see a listing of every TD who's meddling in planning affairs published tbh.

MaceFace

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd love to see a listing of every TD who's meddling in planning affairs published tbh.

Thats not too hard: here ya go

Deise Tom

MaceFace wrote: »

Thats not too hard: here ya go

That could be a very dangerous thing to say even if it is said tounge in cheek maybe.

Deise Tom

hinault wrote: »

The granting of my planning permission has been delayed by 6 weeks and counting due to this current "go slow" by the public services:mad::mad::mad:

It is so wrong that they are taking their greviences out on the public. Is it no wonder that there is little support for the public service workers when you see the carry on that is going on. I wish the majority of them would work acording to the conchince and not to what some git in an cosy office was telling them.

MaceFace

Deise Tom wrote: »

That could be a very dangerous thing to say even if it is said tounge in cheek maybe.

Well it would be if you were to correlate between getting involved in planning permission applications and doing so illegally.

The plain truth is that if you want to get your planning application moved along in a timely manner, you need to engage a public representative to put pressure on your behalf.
While many people may somehow incorrectly associate this with the carrying on that we saw in years gone by, the truth is that elected officials, whether they be TDs or councillors spend a lot of their time on constituency affairs and planning permission is but one of those affairs.

While most would see this as wasting the time of national officials who should be running the country, it is incorrect to think they are behaving in any way wrong (at least technically).

I am going to shut up now for fear of my real identity becoming known and the Herald publishing a story on me

Sleepy

I've a friend who discovered a local councillor had intervened on a planning application he'd submitted when that councillor told him he'd 'had a word with the planning office for ya on that application you put in'. This was completely unsolicited and was simply the local councillor trying to buy his vote!

dan_d

Ray Burke, anyone? Brown envelopes?

Cool Mo D

MaceFace wrote: »

While most would see this as wasting the time of national officials who should be running the country, it is incorrect to think they are behaving in any way wrong (at least technically).
p

Yes, it is technically wrong. It may not be illegal, but that's a different thing to being wrong. The idea that a TD is a gatekeeper to all sorts of services, from planning permission, to medical cards, to intervening with the gardai, is one of the worst, and most backwards parts of our electoral system.
It encourages an atmosphere of clientelism, back-scratching, and cronyism that has infested Irish politics, and has killed off any idea of electing politicians who want to spend their time deciding on matters in the national interest, rather than ringing the council offices on behalf of Bridie down the road having her rent go up €20 a year.

murphaph

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd love to see a listing of every TD who's meddling in planning affairs published tbh.

This list would contain 166 names

SkepticOne

Deise Tom wrote: »

Fianna Fail TD's and Councillors who are trying to help their constituents with planning etc.

They are not really helping their constituents. For every constituent a TD 'helps' there's another constituent who is penalised for going through the proper channels. There is also the additional administrative load as officials try to juggle requests from TDs into their normal workflow. I don't agree with the go slow but in this respect the unions are correct.

MaceFace

SkepticOne wrote: »

They are not really helping their constituents. For every constituent a TD 'helps' there's another constituent who is penalised for going through the proper channels. There is also the additional administrative load as officials try to juggle requests from TDs into their normal workflow. I don't agree with the go slow but in this respect the unions are correct.

The Unions are not the police. They have no right to decide unilaterally who and who they do not help. It is also councillors that they are not helping, and these people require their service.

SkepticOne

MaceFace wrote: »

The Unions are not the police. They have no right to decide unilaterally who and who they do not help. It is also councillors that they are not helping, and these people require their service.

It is not refusing to help, it is refusing to privilege one group of citizens over another simply because a TD is requesting it. I don't see anything wrong with it to be honest. The fact that the unions are recommending the ending of the pandering to TDs is neither here nor there, imo.

Deise Tom

SkepticOne wrote: »

They are not really helping their constituents. For every constituent a TD 'helps' there's another constituent who is penalised for going through the proper channels. There is also the additional administrative load as officials try to juggle requests from TDs into their normal workflow. I don't agree with the go slow but in this respect the unions are correct.

Unions in this country should be banned because they have done more damage than any anyone else has. Many of them have life too cushy and are they and the members that toe the party line are making life very difficult for many people.

SkepticOne

Deise Tom wrote: »

Many of them have life too cushy and are they and the members that toe the party line are making life very difficult for many people.

That may well be so in other respects however in this respect they are in the right imo.

Deise Tom

SkepticOne wrote: »

That may well be so in other respects however in this respect they are in the right imo.

What the Public Servants are doing is very very wrong. Its a pity that the shoe was not on the other foot for some of them, especially those that work in hospitals, who could in the long run be playing with peoples lives and those that are acting the pr!ck in dole offices etc are no better.

murphaph

Just a quick remark on the TDs helping planning apps. If South Dublin CC is anything to go by, a TD's "assistance" is worthless. The planners are not swayed either way by this carry on IME.

SkepticOne

Deise Tom wrote: »

What the Public Servants are doing is very very wrong.

Why? The TDs are not the bosses of the public servants. The TD's job is to vote on legislation, sit on committees etc. They don't have exective power.

Its a pity that the shoe was not on the other foot for some of them, especially those that work in hospitals, who could in the long run be playing with peoples lives and those that are acting the pr!ck in dole offices etc are no better.

They may be acting the prick in many respect but refusing to pander to vote-seeking TDs is not one of them.

Deise Tom

murphaph wrote: »

Just a quick remark on the TDs helping planning apps. If South Dublin CC is anything to go by, a TD's "assistance" is worthless. The planners are not swayed either way by this carry on IME.

So did the planners in South Dublin CC put the letters they got from the unions, i dont know is it SIPTU or IMPACT in the shredder and say we are not going to listen to what that shower of ***** are telling us. If they did, i say well done, but i suspect they did not do it and are listening to what the unions are saying.

Deise Tom

SkepticOne wrote: »

Why? The TDs are not the bosses of the public servants. The TD's job is to vote on legislation, sit on committees etc. They don't have exective power.They may be acting the prick in many respect but refusing to pander to vote-seeking TDs is not one of them.

Going on a go slow and depriving people of their rights, including to sign on and off the dole is acting the PRICK. The people causing this to happen should remember that there is a long road without a turn in it.

jackofalltrades

Deise Tom wrote:

Fianna Fail Unions in this country should be banned because they have done more damage than any anyone else has. Many of them have life too cushy and are they and the members that toe the party line are making life very difficult for many people.

Fixed that for you:).

As much as I may not like the behaviour of the public sector unions at the moment, talk of banning them is just silly.

Good to some someone is taking a stand against parish pump politics for whatever reason they may be doing it.

lumo22

Deise Tom wrote: »

Unions in this country should be banned because they have done more damage than any anyone else has. Many of them have life too cushy and are they and the members that toe the party line are making life very difficult for many people.

I've seen some ridiculous comments on Boards in my time but this one beats them all.

SkepticOne

Deise Tom wrote: »

Going on a go slow and depriving people of their rights, including to sign on and off the dole is acting the PRICK. The people causing this to happen should remember that there is a long road without a turn in it.

Yes, but that is different to pandering to TDs.

Deise Tom

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Fixed that for you:).

As much as I may not like the behaviour of the public sector unions at the moment, talk of banning them is just silly.

Good to some someone is taking a stand against parish pump politics for whatever reason they may be doing it.

Well if unions persist on fecking up the country, putting peoples lives in possible danger, run the risk of teachers not completing a curriculum, and as a result a student running the risk of failing exams, if they insist on people who are already hard up having to longer without getting money for which they are entitled, then there is no doubt in my mind they should be banned. I could not give a fiddlers if anyone agrees with me or not, i am not going to change my view on them.

Deise Tom

SkepticOne wrote: »

Yes, but that is different to pandering to TDs.

So are you saying that its ok for civil servants to be doing what they are doing.

deise blue

Deise Tom wrote: »

Well if unions persist on fecking up the country, putting peoples lives in possible danger, run the risk of teachers not completing a curriculum, and as a result a student running the risk of failing exams, if they insist on people who are already hard up having to longer without getting money for which they are entitled, then there is no doubt in my mind they should be banned. I could not give a fiddlers if anyone agrees with me or not, i am not going to change my view on them.

Why would anyone try to change your views on unions . after all we live in a democracy and are all entitled to our our own points of view.

Equally I am democratically entitled to be member of a union who are entitled to take industrial action if mandated to do so by their members

Deise Tom

How genuine are those polls for strike etc. I know of civil servants who have never been asked their views but are told what to do and what not to do.

deise blue

Deise Tom wrote: »

How genuine are those polls for strike etc. I know of civil servants who have never been asked their views but are told what to do and what not to do.

What polls ?

The respective unions issue ballots to all members asking them to vote either in favour or against industrial action.

This democratic process has to date delivered a huge majority in favour of such action.

Deise Tom

deise blue wrote: »

What polls ?

The respective unions issue ballots to all members asking them to vote either in favour or against industrial action.

This democratic process has to date delivered a huge majority in favour of such action.

Sorry, i ment ballots. Still know people however that did not get asked their views however.