Irish "Citizens" Involved in Plot to Kill Swedish Cartoonist

Byron85

Just found this on the RTE website and i'm somewhat shocked.

Arrests over alleged plot to kill cartoonist



Gardaí have arrested five people in Waterford and two others in Cork in connection with an investigation into a conspiracy to murder a Swedish cartoonist.
Cartoonist Lars Vilks has been threatened over his drawing depicting the Prophet Muhammad with the body of a dog.
The head of an al-Qaeda faction in Iraq, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, posted an audio tape on the Internet in September 2007 offering $100,000 for the killing of Mr Vilks.


This morning, detectives arrested three men and two women in Waterford and Tramore and another man and woman at Ballincollig, near Cork city. A number of searches also took place.
A garda spokesman said the operation was part of an investigation into a conspiracy to murder an individual in another jurisdiction.
Members of the Garda National Support Services and the Special Detective Unit were also involved in this morning's operation.
Gardaí say they are working closely with police forces in a number of other European countries and in the US.
The seven people arrested this morning range in age from their mid-20s to their late-40s.
They are being questioned at garda stations in Waterford, Tramore, Dungarvan and Thomastown.
All are being detained under section 50 of the Criminal Justice Act, which allows for them to be held for up to a week.
Those in custody are originally from Morocco and Yemen, but it is understood they all have refugee status and are legally in the country.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/waterford.html

Stercus Accidit

Ah ffs, glad they were caught anyway, I feel sorry for the cartoonist, I can't imagine what its like to be on some fundamentalist hit list. Its incredibly negative PR for Islam also, but I suppose the fundies rarely consider or even understand how their threats are viewed by rational people.

Xluna

I like the way religion gives logic the middle finger-highly amusing.

ronaldoshaky

This is the kind of scum that we let in so easy here. They should be deported

Daftendirekt

There is no rolleyes emoticon condescending enough for these people.

:rolleyes:

deman

There are already at least 2 other threads about this story.

The Mad Hatter

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

This is the kind of scum that we let in so easy here. They should be deported

...

Corkfeen

Al Qaeda are offering a hundred grand to kill him. I'll [...be taking a holiday for making a completely inappropriate suggestion...]

robindch

Corkfeen wrote: »

Al Qaeda are offering a hundred grand to kill him. I'll [...]

Corkfeen is taking a holiday from the forum.

Coriolanus

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

...

I'm not sure I see the problem.

1) We shouldn't, ideally, be granting refugee status to militants of any stripe.

2) If we fail to detect them on entry, then they should be removed if any of their actions are illegal, and linked to an ideology (as opposed to say, breaking a speed limit. Illegal, but not grounds for deportion I think we can all agree).

The Mad Hatter

Nevore wrote: »

I'm not sure I see the problem.

1) We shouldn't, ideally, be granting refugee status to militants of any stripe.

2) If we fail to detect them on entry, then they should be removed if any of their actions are illegal, and linked to an ideology (as opposed to say, breaking a speed limit. Illegal, but not grounds for deportion I think we can all agree).

It was the generalisation I found objectionable, as if these guys were typical examples of refugees.

Coriolanus

Eh, I didn't read it that way.

Zillah

Nevore wrote: »

I'm not sure I see the problem.

1) We shouldn't, ideally, be granting refugee status to militants of any stripe.

2) If we fail to detect them on entry, then they should be removed if any of their actions are illegal, and linked to an ideology (as opposed to say, breaking a speed limit. Illegal, but not grounds for deportion I think we can all agree).

You think it's better to send them on their merry way rather than throwing them in prison for engaging in conspiracy to murder?

Goduznt Xzst

Zillah wrote: »

You think it's better to send them on their merry way rather than throwing them in prison for engaging in conspiracy to murder?

What's that about hearing hoofbeats and assuming Zebras?

When Nevore said "removed" it seemed fairly obvious to me to assume something like "extradited" instead of just being sent on "their merry way"

Dades

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

When Nevore said "removed" it seemed fairly obvious to me to assume something like "extradited" instead of just being sent on "their merry way"

You'd have to question whether they'd be greeted by police or a brass band on extradition back home though.

Hagar

Just because a plot is uncovered in Ireland it doesn't make it an Irish plot.
As an Irishman I find the thread title misleading and somewhat offensive. Those nutjobs are not Irish, their faith seems to be their nationality.

recedite

Two messages will now go out to the rest of the world;
1. Ireland has Islamic extremists.
2. Ireland has struck a blow against ignorance and intolerance, and stands in solidarity with the Danes and the Swedes in this regard.

Congratulations are due to the Gardai anyway for preventing the attack.

Byron85

69 wrote: »

Just because a plot is uncovered in Ireland it doesn't make it an Irish plot.
As an Irishman I find the thread title misleading and somewhat offensive. Those nutjobs are not Irish, their faith seems to be their nationality.

I read somewhere that they had Irish citizenship but I can't find the link at the moment. Splitting hairs I know but no need to get offended over semantics. Thread title has been slightly changed nonetheless.


Edit: Found the link.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256616/Arrests-plot-kill-Mohammed-cartoonist-Lars-Vilks-Ireland.html

It is understood that some of those arrested hold Irish citizenship and a number are originally from the Middle East.

getz

a good link to see is www.strateypage.com.

PeterIanStaker

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

I read somewhere that they had Irish citizenship but I can't find the link at the moment. Splitting hairs I know but no need to get offended over semantics. Thread title has been slightly changed nonetheless.


Edit: Found the link.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256616/Arrests-plot-kill-Mohammed-cartoonist-Lars-Vilks-Ireland.html

Trust the Daily Mail to point it out of course
"IRISH ISLAMIC TERRORISTS WILL GIVE YOU SWINE FLU"

The Mad Hatter

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

I read somewhere that they had Irish citizenship but I can't find the link at the moment. Splitting hairs I know but no need to get offended over semantics. Thread title has been slightly changed nonetheless.


Edit: Found the link.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256616/Arrests-plot-kill-Mohammed-cartoonist-Lars-Vilks-Ireland.html

Anything from a reliable source?

Byron85

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Anything from a reliable source?

Woops. My bad. Didn't notice it was the Daily Mail somehow.


Found it on The Times website anyway.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7055282.ece

They are believed to include Algerian, Libyan, Croatian, US and Palestinian citizens and at least one naturalised Irish citizen.

And also from the Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0309/breaking40.html

The Irish Times understands most of those arrested are from Algeria, Croatia, Libya, the United States and Palestinian, and that they are legally resident in Ireland.

sionnach

recedite wrote: »

Two messages will now go out to the rest of the world;
1. Ireland has Islamic extremists.
2. Ireland has struck a blow against ignorance and intolerance, and stands in solidarity with the Danes and the Swedes in this regard.
Congratulations are due to the Gardai anyway for preventing the attack.

No, we struck a blow against murder. The arrest of these people has nothing to do with Ireland as a country standing in solidarity with the Danes and the Swedes against ignorance and intolerance. We've done the exact opposite by introducing a ridiculous blasphemy law.

Coriolanus

Zillah wrote: »

You think it's better to send them on their merry way rather than throwing them in prison for engaging in conspiracy to murder?

No, I thought it would be obvious that the deportation would come after the jail sentence.

Rev Hellfire

Nevore wrote: »

No, I thought it would be obvious that the deportation would come after the jail sentence.

Would it ?
I mean if you grant asylum to someone on the basis their life would be endangered should they return what makes you think that would change once they have completed their sentence ?

recedite

sionnach wrote: »

No, we struck a blow against murder. The arrest of these people has nothing to do with Ireland as a country standing in solidarity with the Danes and the Swedes against ignorance and intolerance. We've done the exact opposite by introducing a ridiculous blasphemy law.

Maybe, but the rest of the world doesn't know that.

Coriolanus

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Would it ?
I mean if you grant asylum to someone on the basis their life would be endangered should they return what makes you think that would change once they have completed their sentence ?

Well, a couple of things there.

1: The original asylum may have been gained fraudulently. "Please don't send me back to Yemen, the Islamists there will kill me." Then the guy turns out to be an Islamist... So that would need to be looked at.

2: Now that I think about it, deportation might not be ideal anyway, regardless of the asylum status. Considering the joke that is our justice system, I'd be far more inclined to see cooperation between the Gardai and the Dutch police that would lead to an extradition request from the Netherlands. I don't know about them specifically, but several countries have it in their book of statutes that conspiracy against the state/it's citizens even when done outside the state, is a crime prosecutable within it.

3: Asylum is granted on the basis that we have a moral obligation to prevent harm right? It could be argued that someone who then abuses that protection has waived their right to it.
Take away the political level and put it this way. I think we have an obligation to not let someone starve to death if they're found at my door. If I then take that person in and give them succour, and they then abuse that hospitality, I'm no longer obliged to care for them, even if kicking them out of the house may result in them starving to death. Or whatever, you get what I mean, I'm sure.

ronaldoshaky

Nevore wrote: »

No, I thought it would be obvious that the deportation would come after the jail sentence.

Why not just revoke their citizenship and deport them, err, without making the taxpayer have to pay for their stay in an Irish prison. It would happen in Saudi Arabia or the U.A.E.

Coriolanus

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

Why not just revoke their citizenship and deport them, err, without making the taxpayer have to pay for their stay in an Irish prison. It would happen in Saudi Arabia or the U.A.E.

Because they should be punished? I wouldn't mind whether they served here or in Amsterdam but I do think think the consequences should be a bit more than a simple revocation of asylum status and a plane ticket back to a country where they'd likely be hailed as heroes.

KidKeith89

Were these people planning the murder as a result of their religious convictions, or for the $150,000 bounty? I'd be inclined to say that the American woman, "Jihad Jane" (great name), planned it as a result of her faith, and the other 7 in Ireland were doing it for the money (mainly - killing Vilks was a bonus).

sock puppet

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

Why not just revoke their citizenship and deport them, err, without making the taxpayer have to pay for their stay in an Irish prison. It would happen in Saudi Arabia or the U.A.E.

Because they're too dangerous to be let off prison.

KidKeith89 wrote: »

Were these people planning the murder as a result of their religious convictions, or for the $150,000 bounty? I'd be inclined to say that the American woman, "Jihad Jane" (great name), planned it as a result of her faith, and the other 7 in Ireland were doing it for the money (mainly - killing Vilks was a bonus).

If someone were to murder someone for money I'd imagine they'd want a lot more than $100,000 split 7 ways. It'd be pretty funny if the reward was denominated in dollars though:D.

ronaldoshaky

Nevore wrote: »

Because they should be punished? I wouldn't mind whether they served here or in Amsterdam but I do think think the consequences should be a bit more than a simple revocation of asylum status and a plane ticket back to a country where they'd likely be hailed as heroes.

Its not simple. Deportation is a serious matter.

Coriolanus

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

Its not simple. Deportation is a serious matter.

On the surface, that reads as "... so they shouldn't be deported."
Care to expand a bit?

ronaldoshaky

Nevore wrote: »

On the surface, that reads as "... so they shouldn't be deported."
Care to expand a bit?

Its a serious matter if your citizenship is revoked. Thats what I meant.

Why should the Irish taxpayer pay for terrorists? Even to keep them in prison.

Gary L

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

This is the kind of scum that we let in so easy here. They should be deported

What kind of selection process should we use?

MikeC101

What do you feel is an appropriate response to your being offended by someone mocking your faith?

a. Be offended.
b. Write a strongly worded letter to the Times.
c. Chop off their heads.
d. All of the above.

Anyone who ticks c or d shouldn't be given asylum.

But seriously - we're allowed freedom of expression (just about, and not in Germany) in most of Europe. If you're an asylum seeker and you don't believe in freedom of expression, you might want to consider seeking asylum elsewhere.