Etymotics

Khannie

Very seriously considering some of these delicious earphones based off reviews. Mostly I'll be using them on the train and maintaining sound isolation is a big issue for me.

So.....Can somebody tell me what the difference between the ER-4P's and the ER-6i's is?

The 6i's are substantially cheaper. I'm not an audiophile, but I'm getting tired of cheap earphones falling out of my ears over and over again and I'm ready to invest.

Brian

Etymotics are great. I had ER6s and now have ER-4Ps on their way to me.

The 4s are just upgrades in pretty much every way. Better construction, accuracy, isolation and replaceable cables.

However as you're a confessed new comer to high-end earphones, there are a few things to consider...

Etymotic started as an audio company for professionals. Their sound signature is described by most as Analytical. In basic terms, that means that Etymotics are often considered bass-light, as the intent is reproduce the sound as accurately as possible without coloration or emphasizing particular frequencies. If you like vocals and acoustic music then they would be well-suited, but not so much hip-hop or dance.

Etymotics are famous for their isolation. The isolation itself is a good thing, but some people find the necessary deep insertion uncomfortable. It definitely takes some getting used to.

When I bought my ER6s ~5 years ago, there wasn't really any other option for beginner audiophiles besides Shure. The situation has changed a lot since then. Klipsch, SoundMAGIC, NuForce, Hippo, HiFiman, JAYS, Meelectronics... everyone wants a piece of the sub-$100 market. There is much more choice and thus greater value available now. You no longer need to spend heaps to get great sound, so don't feel obliged to spend tons of money when there's the possibility you could be happy with something that costs €40 or so.

Khannie

That's some answer. Fair play to you.

I'd heard that about the initial discomfort. I've tried a good few pairs of cheaper earphones now with what I would class as giant frustration because they offer superb isolation for about 20 seconds, then shift enough that external sound gets in. Mostly this happens when I'm on the train or running. I'm prepared to suck that initial discomfort up though.

On the bass thing: Not too worried either. Mostly (about 80%) I'll use them for watching TV shows / Movies on the iPhone on the train. The other 20% will be for listening to music while out running.

I'm leaning towards the 6's at the moment, mostly on the cost front. Do you mind me asking where you got your 4's from?

Also, I noticed in pictures that the 6's come with a double flange in-ear bit and the 4's come with a triple. Would that make any difference do you think?

viv.ie

The ER 4P were on Amazon last weekend for £76,sadly for you gone up to £130.
If you are worried about lack of bass,I have one of these,tiny but really adds a nice punch to the sound if you have a good quality mp 3 player and good buds.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Fiio-E5-headphone-Amplifier-for-Ipod-Mp3-Mp4-Mobiles_W0QQitemZ140382870016QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_LC_Son_Home_Cinema_Audio_Vid%C3%A9o_Portable_Accessoires_MP3?hash=item20af789a00

Brian

OK, if you're planning to use them running, you should know this about the Etymotics : their cables are made of quite stiff, slick material which makes them quite "microphonic", ie there's a lot of cable noise from wind and them hitting against your body. They do come with a shirt clip which can help reduce the noise though.

I got my ER-4Ps for €100 from Amazon UK, as they had them at 60% off a few days ago (price has gone back up now). I plan to use them while travelling on the train though, so cable noise isn't as much of an issue for me.

The old ER6s came with double flanges but the ER6i has the same triple flange as the ER-4s do.



If you're really concerned about the cable noise when running I would recommend you check out earphones that have over-ear cabling, such as SoundMAGIC PL-50s, Fischer Audio Eterna or Meelectronics Ai-M6.

padi89

Avoid etys like the plague if your running, i couldn't stand the microphonics even walking. The clip helps the cable issue a bit but it's impossible to completely isolate it. If you listen to a lot of rock or metal id avoid too, being on the analytical side they will show up poor recordings.The bass is fine but the higher frequencies on poor recordings will make your ears bleed.

Tonal accuracy doesn't mean the best, you've got to be able to enjoy your music in comfort.

Khannie

Hmmmm. I don't run that often (I'd say twice a week on average). I might get a pair of headphones for that. The big thing for me is the train. I spend about 5-7 hours a week on the train watching TV / Movies. I'd rarely run more than 15K in a week (about 75 minutes, give or take).

So those PL50's are very cheap (around 40 euro delivered from here). I'd be nervous about getting the single flange buds though. I've found with cheaper earphones they just slip out of my ears (not sure if my ears are a funny shape or what, but those 6i's look like they're going nowhere).

Hmmmmm.

Further reading required....

Brian

The PL-50s isolate pretty well actually. They're so small that you can insert them quite deeply. I recommend sony hybrid tips with them.

Khannie

I'm confused now. Very confused. I was all set to get the 6i's. I thought they would be "the last set of in-ear earphones I ever buy" (slight exaggeration). Those SoundMagic's are probably just the ticket though.

Actually, I'm off to order them. At only 40 euro, if it all goes horribly wrong (unlikely) I can get better ones down the line.

edit: Ordered

Khannie

I have to say.....I'm very excited. I feel a little bit sad.

I also ordered some Sennheiser HD 210's off amazon for the oifig. Looking forward to them too.

Thanks for all the input everyone. Much appreciated.

The Black Oil

I own a pair of PL-50s thanks to Baza, they're quite something! I find them very good for podcasts and shutting out the world.

Khannie

Well....they arrived 2 days ago. First impressions:

Very good sound isolation. Used them for the first time on the train this morning. Excellent stuff. They also feel like they're glued to my head which is good news for running (though I haven't gone running with them yet, I'm gonna hit a cross trainer in about 20 minutes which should give a good indication (your head bobs around quite a bit relative to the stationary music player)).

I had to fiddle a bit to find out that only the small foam buds fit in my ears and hold them in place (I actually only discovered this now as the medium one is only coming out of my left ear very occasionally).

I can't comment a huge amount on sound quality because, basically, I'm not qualified. But...for what it's worth: I stuck on some Eels (vocals + acoustic guitar + other stuff, 256Kb MP3 from iTunes) and they sound animal. Put on some leftfield (dance / heavy bass, 320Kb MP3 cd rip) and turned it up to 11 and it wasn't so great. Bass in particular was a bit lacking. Also, there's an instant sound quality degradation if they shift even a small amount in your ear. I think this shifting is probably still down to the wrong size foam in one ear, so I'll report back.

Pros:
Amazing sound isolation
Very crisp sound overall
Those suckers aren't going anywhere
I like the over-ear add-on.
Look good
No microphonics noticeable so far
Cheap

Cons:
Bass isn't amazing
Zero documentation with them


Overall very happy.

Here are some pics:

The box:



Everything that's in the box:




So....I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can answer:

1) Where do I get more foam tips for them
and
2) What happens if some ear-wax gets into this bit:



I keep my ears clean, but it seems an inevitability given the short length of the small tips.

and
3) Maybe silly, but how are you supposed to insert them? Just shove them in?

Also, thanks to everyone for the really good advice. Very happy with my purchase.

The Black Oil

What struck me about them is that music and podcasts sound like they're actually inside your head (not in the psychotic sense :pac:) rather than simply being 'around' it. Very clear.

Brian

RE the bass, sounds like you're not getting a proper fit. The sound should not alter at all when you have them in and are moving. When I had them I inserted them quite a bit deeper than shown in this photo - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3548/3689588521_3fb1028c63.jpg In that it looks like the earhooks are preventing the earphone from being stuck in any deeper, so try it with those removed. You can achieve the same ear-gripping effect by just twisting the wire anyway.

You might want to also try some different eartips. Besides the foam tips, the PL50s don't have great eartips in the box. The best ones that I found were Sony Hybrids. They're pretty expensive and you can only get one pair of each size at a time, but there are good quality clones of them on eBay where you get 18 pcs. If you have an idea of what size you are you can ask for all 9 pairs to be that size, or you can just get 3 S, 3 M, 3 L. I think you can ask for any combination of those three sizes, but to be honest you probably don't need more than 3 pairs of the right size anyway. I found Medium to fit best for me.

Maybe you and The Black Oil could split an order or something if 9 pairs is excessive.

As for the mesh thing, it's glued in, so if you're gentle you can prise it out with a needle (be careful not to tear it) and wash it in hot water or with a toothbrush then just poke it back in. Be aware that there's a cotton filter behind that too.

For insertion, wet the eartip, and with your spare hand pull your ear upwards and outwards to open up the ear canal. While holding it like this insert the earphone with a slight twisting motion. Having your mouth open slightly also keeps your ear canal fully open and avoids air pressure imbalance.


EDIT : For earphones in general, ClieOS's IEM guide on Head-Fi is a great resource.

yimrsg

I had a similar experience when I first got my shure se110 when I found out I was inbetween foam sizes and couldn't get a good solid fit when moving. It came with 3 foam and 3 rubbery eartips but just couldn't get it right.

They're just gathering dust as I have a pair of Re0's now but I remember reading that you could have a bash making your own foam ear tips by taking some foam ear plugs like the ones used on building sites and trim them bit by bit till you got a good length and fit, after forcing a narrow nail into the middle lengthways and fit it onto the nozzle.

This mightn't work on the pl50 because the nozzle length mightn't be long enough to hold the foam in place like the se110 and because the foam ear protectors don't come in various thickness.
http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/se110_02.jpg

Khannie

Baza210 wrote: »

You might want to also try some different eartips. Besides the foam tips, the PL50s don't have great eartips in the box. The best ones that I found were Sony Hybrids. They're pretty expensive and you can only get one pair of each size at a time, but there are good quality clones of them on eBay where you get 18 pcs. If you have an idea of what size you are you can ask for all 9 pairs to be that size, or you can just get 3 S, 3 M, 3 L. I think you can ask for any combination of those three sizes, but to be honest you probably don't need more than 3 pairs of the right size anyway. I found Medium to fit best for me.

I really like the foam ones that come with it actually. They're (by far) the most comfortable I've worn. I'll try those ones you linked when these ones start getting a bit tatty.

Baza210 wrote: »

For insertion, wet the eartip, and with your spare hand pull your ear upwards and outwards to open up the ear canal. While holding it like this insert the earphone with a slight twisting motion. Having your mouth open slightly also keeps your ear canal fully open and avoids air pressure imbalance.

Yeah, spot on. I followed that guide you on head-fi and got them *right* into my ear. Perfect fit now. Very nice bass on the same track as before.

Brian

The hybrids and clones are made of very soft silicone compared to standard eartips, they are super comfortable.

Has the bass improved then?

Khannie

Baza210 wrote: »

The hybrids and clones are made of very soft silicone compared to standard eartips, they are super comfortable.

Maybe I'll splash out and spend the fiver then.

Baza210 wrote: »

Has the bass improved then?

Substantially, yeah. It's still not top notch, but it's good now.

Brian

Cheaper earphones typically have massively over-emphasized bass as it's more immediate and makes more of an impression when you first try them. This is why people buy Monster Beats after trying them in an Apple store because the bass is so overwhelming.

On the other hand, the PL-50s' strength is that they are very balanced. It may take some time for your brain to adjust to the sound but in the end you come to appreciate that the bass is not pounding and clouding the rest of the music.

Khannie

Yeah, I'm absolutely loving the crispness of the sound. I could very clearly make out the loss of sound quality in a relatively high bitrate MP3. That's the first time in a while that's happened.