The Next TD Of Waterford?

deisebob1

Roanmore wrote: »

I don't think Brian Cowen will call a by election in Waterford because he doen't have to. Pity, because this would be Waterford's best chance to get some promises for the region.

In fairness I think Waterford has already got promises in this regard. I am by no means a FG supporter but I did vote for Cummins in the local elections last year and for a young chap I have been impressed with him. Anyway I was reading the munster yesterday and Enda Kenny is quoted as saying FG is committed to delivering a university at WIT, he said that it was FG policy and if they got into government they would deliver it. This is an issue which I have a very big interest in and what he said was very clear cut, it is also Labour policy so the next Government should have no problems delivering this for us!

In relation to our next TD, I certainly think it is coffey's to loose as I have said before but Halligan is a threat especially if he joins Labour

Deise Tom

deisebob1 wrote: »

In fairness I think Waterford has already got promises in this regard. I am by no means a FG supporter but I did vote for Cummins in the local elections last year and for a young chap I have been impressed with him. Anyway I was reading the munster yesterday and Enda Kenny is quoted as saying FG is committed to delivering a university at WIT, he said that it was FG policy and if they got into government they would deliver it. This is an issue which I have a very big interest in and what he said was very clear cut, it is also Labour policy so the next Government should have no problems delivering this for us!

In relation to our next TD, I certainly think it is coffey's to loose as I have said before but Halligan is a threat especially if he joins Labour

I have a feeling if FG were in power, there is no doubt that WIT would be upgraded to university status, but i fear so many other ITs would also be up graded. I dont think it would be done as a reward for the good work for the work done in them but to gain votes in further elections.

deisebob1

Deise Tom wrote: »

I have a feeling if FG were in power, there is no doubt that WIT would be upgraded to university status, but i fear so many other ITs would also be up graded. I dont think it would be done as a reward for the good work for the work done in them but to gain votes in further elections.

I think that is an unfair comment, read the Munster, Kenny said on geographical grounds, the case stood for a university at WIT. Now the last time I checked the South East region was the only region without a university. If you remember Deise Tom It was FF that upgraded all regional colleges to IT status instead of just the 2 or 3 that were deserving of this status. I dont believe FG will make this same mistake and before I am attacked, as I said I am not a FG supporter as such but I certainly will be supporting them in the next election because I think the country needs a new government and I would be saying the same if any party was in power for 10+ years, its not healthy!

Smiley Burnett

we will NEVER get a university for the south east whilst fianna fail are in power!!!

Bards

For all the talk and bluster from FG - even they have no intention of upgrading WIT to University.

Instead they propose the creation of an overarching umbrella organisation, similar to NUI, to which all the IT's become a constiuent part

The following is taken (Page 18) from their Education Policy Document http://www.finegael.org/upload/file/3rdway.pdf




In order to ensure diversity within the sector and to develop the IoT sector as
a different and alternative to university style of education delivery, an
overarching umbrella University or federation for the entire IoT sector should
be introduced, under which, individual IoTs would be constituent colleges.
This would still allow the IoT sector to concentrate on matching technological
and emerging employment needs, albeit under an overarching national
framework.


==============================================
Thanks, but no thanks FG

Sully

Iv an interview with Enda Kenny which suggests a different approach for WIT. Ill type it up (its voice recorded). Iv also asked the Education Spokesperson to get back to me on a number of questions related to this.

crazydude

From the Labour Party's last election manifesto.
3rd bullet point under the "Third and Fourth Level" section

We will establish a multi-campus University of the South East with Waterford Institute of Technology as its hub.

http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/6.html

(and yes I am a member of Labour :cool:)

Sully

crazydude wrote: »

From the Labour Party's last election manifesto.
3rd bullet point under the "Third and Fourth Level" section



http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/6.html

(and yes I am a member of Labour :cool:)

Which is exactly the Fine Gael proposal for the South East of Ireland. Selective quoting and all that.

crazydude

That it may now be. I'm only making the comparison wrt Labour's election policy at the last election

That commitment was not in either FF's or FG's manifestos

Sully

Sully wrote: »

Iv an interview with Enda Kenny which suggests a different approach for WIT. Ill type it up (its voice recorded). Iv also asked the Education Spokesperson to get back to me on a number of questions related to this.

Brian Hayes was in touch, stating that the IoT plan is correct but that WIT is part of a specific plan to be given university status for the South East. He has confirmed that if Fine Gael are elected, they will indeed give university status to the South East.

For further information, see here:- http://endakenny.finegael.ie/representatives/common/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/33751/pkey/0/page/1

Application for a new university in the South East to be accepted
"The application for a new university in the South East should be accepted, pending a positive outcome to an examination of this application under Section 9 of the Universities Act 1997.

The Fine Gael plan has many benefits including:

- The establishment of a proper framework defining what a university is;
- Certainty brought to the university and IoT sectors that will allow the development of a national strategy;
- Greater collaboration between regional universities and their IoT counterparts that will benefit all;
- Greater focus on research and on the knowledge economy;
- A new university for the South East region that will benefit economic development;
- A new beginning for the IoT sector that will more successfully be able to compete, both nationally, and internationally, under a new 'Umbrella University';
- DIT, finally, achieving university status;
- The potential for 'mission drift' is overcome, by solidifying the IoT sector as a different entity to the university sector and by giving the Oireachtas greater control over the mission of the two universities going forward;

The above is a document set out by the education spokesperson, Brian Hayes TD.

Our local senator, Paudie Coffey, has been very active on this and some of his recent comments can be read here:-
http://www.paudiecoffey.finegael.org/statements/c/2450/article/
http://www.paudiecoffey.finegael.org/statements/c/1996/article/

The Munster Express has covered the FG position here:- http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

FUSE covered it here:-
http://se4u.org/news/2008/10/24/enda-kenny-backs-south-east-university/

I think all of the above puts to bed any doubt what Fine Gaels plans are for WIT and the South East tbh.

AdMMM

Because we all know that election promises are delivered upon...

Sully

AdMMM wrote: »

Because we all know that election promises are delivered upon...

To be fair, its a bit more then an election promise. Any promise can be taken as is or ignored - its up to you what you want to believe.

Bards

Sully wrote: »

Brian Hayes was in touch, stating that the IoT plan is correct but that WIT is part of a specific plan to be given university status for the South East. He has confirmed that if Fine Gael are elected, they will indeed give university status to the South East.

For further information, see here:- http://endakenny.finegael.ie/representatives/common/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/33751/pkey/0/page/1





The above is a document set out by the education spokesperson, Brian Hayes TD.

Our local senator, Paudie Coffey, has been very active on this and some of his recent comments can be read here:-
http://www.paudiecoffey.finegael.org/statements/c/2450/article/
http://www.paudiecoffey.finegael.org/statements/c/1996/article/

The Munster Express has covered the FG position here:- http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

FUSE covered it here:-
http://se4u.org/news/2008/10/24/enda-kenny-backs-south-east-university/

I think all of the above puts to bed any doubt what Fine Gaels plans are for WIT and the South East tbh.

I have one BIG question, the statement (http://endakenny.finegael.ie/representatives/common/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/33751/pkey/0/page/1) outlined above is dated March 2008, however the Current FIne Gael's Policy Document (Dates March 2009) on Education does not reference the South East at all, and instead just advocates the establishment of the Umberella Universioty for all IoT's??

If we are to believe FG's promises, then FG must update it's poilcy Document on Education and not issue speeches which have no meaning or weight attached - otherwsie it will be more of the same from our political classes - a fudge

jayboi

Sure FG can promise the sun moon and stars in their manifestos and policies but at the end of the day it’s highly unlikely they will be the sole party in power and will likely have labour with them as a result compromises will be made along the way.

I reckon that when the next government that comes to power half the promises wont be on the program for government and the rest will be dealt with in the distant future subject to some sort of expensive report the ultimately say "Nah leave it off" and that’s not just for university status but a lot of promises that are being made.
I know some of ye are saying that both FG and Labour are both promising the same thing but Id be very surprised if they more than empty election promises.

Yea a university in the South would be nice but:

Where’s the funding going to come from?
The WIT is a bit of joke most people who studied there will tell you that I am talking about staff, facilities and the management.
Do we even need another university?

Deise Tom

Bards wrote: »

For all the talk and bluster from FG - even they have no intention of upgrading WIT to University.


==============================================
Thanks, but no thanks FG

I still believe what i said above may well happen, I.E. WIT will become a uni, but so will the likes of Tralee, Athlone, Carlow and maybe a few others. If WIT was upgraded and so were a number of others, it would only become a bit of a political thing.

Deise Tom

jayboi wrote: »

Sure FG can promise the sun moon and stars in their manifestos and policies but at the end of the day it’s highly unlikely they will be the sole party in power and will likely have labour with them as a result compromises will be made along the way.

I would love to know if there is any proinant FG officials on here, and would they be willing to come on and tell us exactly (no waffle, keep it plain and simple) how the party are going to give all they say they will do. What areas will they pay for all they promise, what cut backs will they make. Would they be getting rid of the lebbies that are in place now, and instead increase taxes, which effectly would be the same thing that is happening right now.

jayboi

Deise Tom wrote: »

I would love to know if there is any proinant FG officials on here, and would they be willing to come on and tell us exactly (no waffle, keep it plain and simple) how the party are going to give all they say they will do. What areas will they pay for all they promise, what cut backs will they make. Would they be getting rid of the lebbies that are in place now, and instead increase taxes, which effectly would be the same thing that is happening right now.

Il have to stop you their, I am by no means a FF supporter and I have no intention of ever voting for them, I would probably vote FG over FF but I have no intention of voting for either. If you think im trying to make a case for FF your wrong.

I want change i never want to see a Fianna Fail td, minister, senator or canvasser ever again! at the end of the day they have proven themselves to be corrupt to such a level it would put Robert Mugabe to shame.

At the same time im not going to swallow whatever FG throw at me just because their are the likely successors

Ri na hEireann

Deise Tom wrote: »

I still believe what i said above may well happen, I.E. WIT will become a uni, but so will the likes of Tralee, Athlone, Carlow and maybe a few others. If WIT was upgraded and so were a number of others, it would only become a bit of a political thing.

See, this just shows complete and utter ignorance. You're seeing what you want to see.

The FG document clearly and explicitly states that there would be a new IoT umbrella group akin to the NUI structure BUT that WIT and DIT would not be part of this body and would be given full University status. It can't get more clear than that. You're either purposely ignoring that to suit your "ah sure they're all the same" mentality or for some other reason.

To even suggest Tralee,Athlone or others would become Universities under any government shows zero knowledge of the topic at hand and is in fact insulting to WIT.

Another thing Deise Tom, you keep implying FG have no plan and in your last post you want things explained for you plainly. How about you go have a look for yourself at http://www.finegael.org . All the policies are available there.

Look at ones such as Recovery Through Reform, NewERA, Hope for A Lost Generation, FairCare, SME Survival Package.

And when you have that done feel free to call FF and FG all the same but at least have a basis for your argument.

merlante

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

See, this just shows complete and utter ignorance. You're seeing what you want to see.

The FG document clearly and explicitly states that there would be a new IoT umbrella group akin to the NUI structure BUT that WIT and DIT would not be part of this body and would be given full University status. It can't get more clear than that. You're either purposely ignoring that to suit your "ah sure they're all the same" mentality or for some other reason.

To even suggest Tralee,Athlone or others would become Universities under any government shows zero knowledge of the topic at hand and is in fact insulting to WIT.

Another thing Deise Tom, you keep implying FG have no plan and in your last post you want things explained for you plainly. How about you go have a look for yourself at http://www.finegael.org . All the policies are available there.

Look at ones such as Recovery Through Reform, NewERA, Hope for A Lost Generation, FairCare, SME Survival Package.

And when you have that done feel free to call FF and FG all the same but at least have a basis for your argument.

This was crystal clear and was part of FG education policy. Whether or not it remains part of their policy or whether they will deliver on it or not remains to be seen. But if we don't start voting for parties that at least claim to do the right thing, then we'll never get anywhere.

Ri na hEireann

merlante wrote: »

This was crystal clear and was part of FG education policy. Whether or not it remains part of their policy or whether they will deliver on it or not remains to be seen. But if we don't start voting for parties that at least claim to do the right thing, then we'll never get anywhere.

It was re-affirmed by Enda Kenny during his visit to WIT and Waterford last Thursday. He mentioned it in his weekly email to members the day after the visit too:

While I was in Waterford on Thursday, I took the opportunity to visit the Institute of Technology there. I was there to meet several members of WIT Young Fine Gael and visit some of the departments. It certainly is a very impressive establishment and a great asset to the South East. Fine Gael is committed to providing University status to WIT and to the South East

chelloveks

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

It was re-affirmed by Enda Kenny during his visit to WIT and Waterford last Thursday. He mentioned it in his weekly email to members the day after the visit too:

Yea, that quote and a few bob will get you on the bus to Nirvana....political dog patting....

Ri na hEireann

chelloveks wrote: »

Yea, that quote and a few bob will get you on the bus to Nirvana....political dog patting....

Whatever you say butty. But sure it's either believe someone who has on a large number of occasions said he supports upgrading or wait on a Government who has denied it, put it on the long finger and not budged even with a Waterford man at cabinet.

redbridge

Crazydude, you're a member of the labour party. They were known as the party of the worker,of the common people,yeah? How do you explain Brian O'Shea sitting in the Dail on full pay and drawing a full teachers pension and in another year or two he'll retire on a full TD's pension as well? And the tax payer,you and me,will pay for both of them. Some democracy and some kick up the backside for the working man.

Deise Tom

redbridge wrote: »

Crazydude, you're a member of the labour party. They were known as the party of the worker,of the common people,yeah? How do you explain Brian O'Shea sitting in the Dail on full pay and drawing a full teachers pension and in another year or two he'll retire on a full TD's pension as well? And the tax payer,you and me,will pay for both of them. Some democracy and some kick up the backside for the working man.

In fairness to Brian O'Shea he is not the only TD that is doing this and will have a double pension. I know in these tought times (indeed even in the good times) it is wrong that TDs can draw more than one pension. I would love for one of them to stand up and have the balls to say that they will only take one, it might set a trend.

redbridge

Deise Tom, there is no ''in fairness'' about it. He is our TD. Some pols.will end up with 3 pensions while people in our world can't even get 1 job AND you and me pay for their pensions. Brian O'Shea hasn't had to make one contribution for his teacher's pension yet we fork out for it.

Deise Tom

redbridge wrote: »

Deise Tom, there is no ''in fairness'' about it. He is our TD. Some pols.will end up with 3 pensions while people in our world can't even get 1 job AND you and me pay for their pensions. Brian O'Shea hasn't had to make one contribution for his teacher's pension yet we fork out for it.

I agree with you. The "In Fairness" is just a phrase, call it what you want. I just wanted to point out that Brian O'Shea would not be the only polition drawing two or more pensions.

merlante

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

It was re-affirmed by Enda Kenny during his visit to WIT and Waterford last Thursday. He mentioned it in his weekly email to members the day after the visit too:

I went onto the FG site and read what is there on their new plan and read an education green paper. No mention of a WIT upgrade in those documents.

Deise Tom

merlante wrote: »

I went onto the FG site and read what is there on their new plan and read an education green paper. No mention of a WIT upgrade in those documents.

Heard then say on NEwstalk earlier that Enda bore the pants off the crowd that turned up to listen to a pre planned show for the TV Cameras last night.

merlante

Deise Tom wrote: »

Heard then say on NEwstalk earlier that Enda bore the pants off the crowd that turned up to listen to a pre planned show for the TV Cameras last night.

Well if Enda Kenny and Brian Cowen were in Irish Politician Top Trumps, I'm not sure which would prevail in the boredom category. Cowen was an embarrassment on Paddy's day with Obama. Kenny has had awful media performances. Cowen doesn't do media performance at all. Much of a muchness really.

Sully

merlante wrote: »

I went onto the FG site and read what is there on their new plan and read an education green paper. No mention of a WIT upgrade in those documents.

Have a look through earlier posts covering this.