Formula 1 2010: Round 1 Bahrain

amacachi

Another problem with the new rules IMO is that it's almost impossible to make a difference by trying a different strategy.
Suppose someone decided to try to fly around and make an extra pitstop to make a difference. If (and it's a big if, since it requires a lot of luck with traffic) the guy they're racing has a pit team paying any attention they'll be able to cover that tactic easily.

Is there an e-mail address for the BBC forum? Fancy sending them my opinion.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

So, can we put this notion of Massa being able to keep up with Alonso to bed now? :pac:

Don't think so, Massa settled for second and was saving the engine and fuel, Alonso was on a glory run!

Bring back refuelling asap. So now as well as the dirty air stopping overtaking the drivers are also saving tyres and wont even push to pass or risk the tyres.
The cars are finishing way slower than qualifying because by the end of the race the tyres arent up to it. Its a marathon without the sprint finish. If Vettel didn't have a problem the top 10 would have been a procession to the end.

Congratulations to Ferrari and Alonso they got the dream start. Glad for Massa and gutted for Vettel he would have won.

Great result for Lotus.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Don't think so, Massa settled for second and was saving the engine and fuel, Alonso was on a glory run!

Bring back refuelling asap. So now as well as the dirty air stopping overtaking the drivers are also saving tyres and wont even push to pass or risk the tyres.
The cars are finishing way slower than qualifying because by the end of the race the tyres arent up to it. Its a marathon without the sprint finish. If Vettel didn't have a problem the top 10 would have been a procession to the end.

Congratulations to Ferrari and Alonso they got the dream start. Glad for Massa and gutted for Vettel he would have won.

Great result for Lotus.

On a glory run, yes, but after he passed Vettel Massa spent two laps going .7 a lap quicker than he had been, so to me it seems like he didn't settle straightaway and couldn't keep up with Alonso's raw pace at that point in the race.

RayM

Interminable stuff, but that's to be expected at Bahrain. What a stupid idea to start the season at one of the worst tracks. Ah, at least it's over now. Roll on Melbourne, which is always a nice car-breaker circuit.

Disappointed for Vettel, but happy to see Alonso winning again. Massa impressive too. Schumacher did ok, considering he hasn't done this in over three years. Williams and Sauber were massively disappointing. Lotus were impressive enough.

I'm glad to see the back of fuel-stops. Yes, they added excitement, but there was always something very artificial about it. I'd rather see a pole-to-flag procession than somebody losing a race because the fuel hose got stuck.

BoardsRanger

RayM wrote: »

I'm glad to see the back of fuel-stops. Yes, they added excitement, but there was always something very artificial about it. I'd rather see a pole-to-flag procession than somebody losing a race because the fuel hose got stuck.

Id rather see a F1 car going faster than GP2!!! Seriously, we need to bring back refueling. Its terrible - why watch cars going 5-8 seconds slower than they can do. Drivers nursing tyres for the whole race. I want to watch a car on the limit - not this sh1t.

IM0

you guys are barking up the wrong tree with the bring back re-fueling arguement. Its more to do with cars not being able to follow each other DESPITE them bringing in the big front wings, slick narrower front tyres, but Brawn last year has a lot to blame for this boring game, there diffuser schennagins (although legal) has virtually killed overtaking, add in no fueling and top class engineers/designers always a step ahead of the FIA efforts to make it harder for drivers and encourage overtaking, and you've got a recipe for a snorfest season, despite what the diver line ups say on paper.

They could only pass in the pitlane before, and now thats gone! :pac:
god what a let down :rolleyes:

amacachi

me@ucd wrote: »

you guys are barking up the wrong tree with the bring back re-fueling arguement. Its more to do with cars not being able to follow each other DESPITE them bringing in the big front wings, slick narrower front tyres, but Brawn last year has a lot to blame for this boring game, there diffuser schennagins (although legal) has virtually killed overtaking, add in no fueling and top class engineers/designers always a step ahead of the FIA efforts to make it harder for drivers and encourage overtaking, and you've got a recipe for a snorfest season, despite what the diver line ups say on paper.

They could only pass in the pitlane before, and now thats gone! :pac:
god what a let down :rolleyes:

All the changes last year did was move the turbulent area from about 1 second to ~0.7 seconds. Even when non-diffuser cars were following at the start of last year they couldn't get close enough.

Mike Litoris

Well that was pretty bad. Whatever happens we're stuck with no refeuling for the year. It would be interesting to see some stats on overtaking.

IM0

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Well that was pretty bad. Whatever happens we're stuck with no refeuling for the year. It would be interesting to see some stats on overtaking.

let me help you there, Vettel's car broke and Alonso and massa jumped him and Hamilton too, HORRIBLE race :P, oh and webber lost a few places at start and sutil and Kubica were last after fist corner, EJ is a tit "watch out for barrichello for the podium with the hard tyres"

either williams are much better on 1 lap than race pace or he got is WAY wrong..again..hmmm.

Sutil was the only one who made a charge through field, ended up around 14 from 21~

amacachi

me@ucd wrote: »

EJ is a tit "watch out for barrichello for the podium with the hard tyres"

Can't blame EJ for that one tbh, Rubens went **** all longer than the soft tyre runners which was unexpected.

Voodu Child

Awful dull race..

I think it was a good solid drive by Schumi. 6th place for a 41 year old coming back after an absence, I don't think you could call it disappointing.

fh041205

yea in fairness the beeb were tipping him even before Q1 ended. And its Eddie........c;mon:D

cooker3

redout wrote: »

Why is the grand prix not on BBC HD ?

EDIT: Is there any HD coverage available ?

It's not filmed in HD incredibly enough. BBC say they would show it if it was. No idea what Bernie is thinking on that front.

That was incredibly dull. I actually fell asleep twice which meant I missed Vettel losing first. Bahrain tends to be boring anyway so will give it a few races but this race does not bode well for the excitement levels for the year which would be a huge shame.

dsmythy

First race of the season should definitely have been in Australia. Beer drinking Aussies over corporate Bahrain any day.

lord lucan

Pretty boring race. Not gonna get too disheartened about it yet,Bahrain is an awful circuit. Even when cars were in close proximity there seemed to be little impetus to pass,eg. Schumacher,Button and Webber were practically driving in formation for the last 3rd of the race.

Roll on Australia,hopefully we'll see some more action. If the season turns into a string of processional races Bernie may have to take action as tv viewers will turn off in their droves. I've a number of friends who used to be F1 fans but gave up watching a few years back. They've all gotten excited about this season but i got a number of texts after the race today saying it was as boring as ever.

Great tits btw.

RayM wrote: »

I'd rather see a pole-to-flag procession than somebody losing a race because the fuel hose got stuck.

well why dont we just have the safety car run ahead of them all race? or better yet just sit out and look at the motorway for a couple of hours. actually bad example- thered be overtaking on the motorway.

IvySlayer

Boring, boring race. More tracks are needed with more emphasis on overtaking tbh. Don't like Bahrain. Happy for Schumacher, good start considering he's rusty.

Feel sorry for Vettel.

amacachi

IvySlayer wrote: »

Boring, boring race. More tracks are needed with more emphasis on overtaking tbh. Don't like Bahrain. Happy for Schumacher, good start considering he's rusty.

Feel sorry for Vettel.

How exactly? Short of basically making it a spec series there's very little difference the track can make.

BarryM3

me@ucd wrote: »

you guys are barking up the wrong tree with the bring back re-fueling arguement. Its more to do with cars not being able to follow each other DESPITE them bringing in the big front wings, slick narrower front tyres, but Brawn last year has a lot to blame for this boring game, there diffuser schennagins (although legal) has virtually killed overtaking, add in no fueling and top class engineers/designers always a step ahead of the FIA efforts to make it harder for drivers and encourage overtaking, and you've got a recipe for a snorfest season, despite what the diver line ups say on paper.

They could only pass in the pitlane before, and now thats gone! :pac:
god what a let down :rolleyes:

Exactly right - its the cars themselves that are the problem. The GP2 and Porsche races ON THE SAME TRACK were fantastic!

alpha2zulu

Very disappointing all in all, particularly after all the spin last year that no fuelling would spice things up. It was actually the first F1 race in a long time that I lost in interest half way through and just came back for the F1 forum. Hopefully its just the Bahrain circuit that dampened the racing but I fear a trend...

On the coverage front, with the 5live commentary on the red button even Crofty seemed to lose steam. Good news on that front is Anthony Davidson is back with him for Australia.

Despite DC's best efforts at the end of the forum I doubt the race did much good for Bahrani tourism, it looks a miserable place!

frostie500

Out of interest how many people think the race would have been considerably better with refueling? It seems that no one like Bahrain-presumably because of poor racing in the past-so I don't see how changing the rules has made a significant difference to the racing. Its pretty clear after that race that some tweaking is needed such as a more aggressive soft tyre that will yield a big differnce on a short stint and allow for some creativity in terms of strategy with the 'hard' compound probably closer to the supersoft we saw today so that teams would have to make more than a single stop. But give the regs some time before saying that Formula 1 as we know it is finished and that everyone will turn off their TV sets etc

am i bovvered

I was expecting some disapointment after todays race.
A great build-up with some great potential battles. However the new fueling rule and the fact that Bahrain is usually quite a boring race. I thought there may be excitment towards the end if the tyres gave up, that did not happen.
Felt sorry for Vettel.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

On a glory run, yes, but after he passed Vettel Massa spent two laps going .7 a lap quicker than he had been, so to me it seems like he didn't settle straightaway and couldn't keep up with Alonso's raw pace at that point in the race.

Alonso has always been great at putting in the quick laps at the right time and is defiantly the quicker driver. But Massa wont be too far off his pace.

Anyone think its funny McLaren have this clever device for reducing downforce on the straights and boosting their top speed and the main complaint from the drivers is a lack of downforce for the twisty bits. Maybe sort out the basics first before trying to be clever. :P

I wouldn't blame the circuit its the regulations messing up the racing, save the engine, conserve fuel, mind the tyres are all stopping the drivers from pushing too hard.

Oh how come F1 is celebrating 60 years, wasn't that last year? Didn't Ferrari name their car F60 because it was the their 60th year. Did someone get the numbers wrong?

RayM

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Oh how come F1 is celebrating 60 years, wasn't that last year? Didn't Ferrari name their car F60 because it was the their 60th year. Did someone get the numbers wrong?

Both are right. The first F1 Championship took place in 1950. Therefore, it's now 60 years since it started. However, 2009 would have been its 60th year.

amacachi

frostie500 wrote: »

Out of interest how many people think the race would have been considerably better with refueling? It seems that no one like Bahrain-presumably because of poor racing in the past-so I don't see how changing the rules has made a significant difference to the racing. Its pretty clear after that race that some tweaking is needed such as a more aggressive soft tyre that will yield a big differnce on a short stint and allow for some creativity in terms of strategy with the 'hard' compound probably closer to the supersoft we saw today so that teams would have to make more than a single stop. But give the regs some time before saying that Formula 1 as we know it is finished and that everyone will turn off their TV sets etc

The old rules would've at least led to some guessing and second-guessing, if not actually changing the results. It's just that it was more like a half stint in an endurance race than a Grand Prix that's annoying everyone I think.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Alonso has always been great at putting in the quick laps at the right time and is defiantly the quicker driver. But Massa wont be too far off his pace.

Not far off, but not able to match him under any set of even circumstances IMO.

Anyone think its funny McLaren have this clever device for reducing downforce on the straights and boosting their top speed and the main complaint from the drivers is a lack of downforce for the twisty bits. Maybe sort out the basics first before trying to be clever. :P

Shhhhh.

I wouldn't blame the circuit its the regulations messing up the racing, save the engine, conserve fuel, mind the tyres are all stopping the drivers from pushing too hard.

See the first thing I said in this post.

mickdw

They will have to open up the tyre choices I think to get it to a stage where there is always a relatively close call to make between 1 & 2 stops. I think, the tyre rules should allow numerous tyre grades from very soft to hard be available at each race & give the teams complete freedom in what they wish to use. It might shake things up a bit.

EvilMonkey

mickdw wrote: »

They will have to open up the tyre choices I think to get it to a stage where there is always a relatively close call to make between 1 & 2 stops. I think, the tyre rules should allow numerous tyre grades from very soft to hard be available at each race & give the teams complete freedom in what they wish to use. It might shake things up a bit.

I just hope they don't do anything stupid like bring in mandatory pitstops or pit windows.

ednwireland

thank god i didnt stay in to watch that, if the season i going to be short 1st stop and lets hang on for the rest of the race then all the races will blike that (hope not)
i dont think that new long infield helped, 6s off qualy pace ffs

steve_r

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I just hope they don't do anything stupid like bring in mandatory pitstops or pit windows.

Martin Whitmarsh has came out and suggested a mandatory two-stops.

Overtaking is the big issue, Alonso admiteed that he would have stuggled to get past Vettel bar the exhaust.

Hopefully Red Bull stay in contention, rather than leave themselves with a mountain to climb like last year.

One annother point, the re-using of engines/gearboxes could make things interesting towards the end of the season.

Top Dog

Looks like the majority of the press were as unimpressed as the rest of us

Press slam 'Bore-rain GP'

Vegeta

Yeah this season could be a snore fest

I fear that Ferrari will dominate the season. Their cars had slight heating issues and they changed engines after quali but once given clean air Alonso was very impressive.

Vettel, Rosberg and Hamilton are 3 great talents though and will not make it easy

projectmayhem

The season could be a precession alright but the fact that they open the season in "Corporate luxury hotel" Bahrain rather then "Fans drinking Fosters and shouting lots" Australia is a disgrace. F1, for me, should always start with Aus and end in Japan.

Ecclestone is a twat for moving things around to suit tosser sponsors.

vincenzolorenzo

I thought it was pretty much inevitable that the first race was going to be a disappointment, for a number of reasons:

1. Massive buildup to the start of the season, top drivers in top cars, 4 top teams as opposed to the normal Ferrari/McLaren
2. Schumacher back
3. Bahrain not being a great track. Better than most Tilkedromes IMO but its no Albert Park
4. No refuelling.

I really don't understand the logic of refuelling ban at all. You didn't need to be einstein to figure out that this was going to discourage wheel to wheel driving. What is has done is make F1 much more of a long game and will reward clever drivers, like Prost 20 years ago. There is a certain appeal in that idea but i would rather see closer scraps and we're not going to see that with the current rules. Constant rule changing is the biggest scourge in modern F1 IMO. :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

projectmayhem wrote: »

The season could be a precession alright but the fact that they open the season in "Corporate luxury hotel" Bahrain rather then "Fans drinking Fosters and shouting lots" Australia is a disgrace. F1, for me, should always start with Aus and end in Japan.

Ecclestone is a twat for moving things around to suit tosser sponsors.

I agree with you but would have it end in Brazil like recently.

The current ending, Abu Dabai is a terrible track and terrible spectacle, all just money being shown off.

Slutmonkey57b

Red Bull and their excuses - Having spent all winter bleating about the "unreliable, underpowered" Renault engine, what do they go out with? A spark plug. Mind boggling stuff in modern F1. Last year it was brakes, wing mirrors, electrics shutting themselves off...

Keep kidding yourselves guys, it's all the engine's fault! Never mind the 3 other cars with the same engine having no problems.

vincenzolorenzo

Did anyone else notice how biased Coulthard was in favour of Red Bull? I know he always backed them last year but in Bahrain he seemed to talk about them non stop! plus he was very quick to blame the renault engine for any drop in Red Bull performance both in bahrain and last year!

muckwarrior

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Did anyone else notice how biased Coulthard was in favour of Red Bull? I know he always backed them last year but in Bahrain he seemed to talk about them non stop! plus he was very quick to blame the renault engine for any drop in Red Bull performance both in bahrain and last year!

Dunno about this year, but last year he was their reserve driver, so he's hardly gonna say anything bad about his (other) employers. But yes, at the last race it was particularly noticeable. It's one thing talking about them when asked, but steering every conversation round to talking about red bull is rather annoying, not to mention unprofessional.

projectmayhem

muckwarrior wrote: »

Dunno about this year, but last year he was their reserve driver, so he's hardly gonna say anything bad about his (other) employers. But yes, at the last race it was particularly noticeable. It's one thing talking about them when asked, but steering every conversation round to talking about red bull is rather annoying, not to mention unprofessional.

He's still on the payroll at RBR as a consultant, so undoubtedly getting paid to throw their name around and ensure they're kept up as a "big team" while Coulthard is on BBC. BBC should, perhaps, put a gag on him for that kind of stuff. Only discuss RBR when someone else mentions it...

BaZmO*

projectmayhem wrote: »

He's still on the payroll at RBR as a consultant, so undoubtedly getting paid to throw their name around and ensure they're kept up as a "big team" while Coulthard is on BBC. BBC should, perhaps, put a gag on him for that kind of stuff. Only discuss RBR when someone else mentions it...

Really? I'm surprised BBC haven't warned him about bigging up a vested interest. I know they have players on doing commentary in the studio for big football matches (if they're injured) but at least you know they have a vested interest.

Frank Bullitt

I knew the ban on refueling would ruin it, why the hell did they do it?

How soon can they re introduce it?????

Slutmonkey57b

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Did anyone else notice how biased Coulthard was in favour of Red Bull? I know he always backed them last year but in Bahrain he seemed to talk about them non stop! plus he was very quick to blame the renault engine for any drop in Red Bull performance both in bahrain and last year!

I am very surprised at the amount of rope the BBC are giving DC actually. Last year he had some reserve about RBR, and tended to mix his commentary, or ensure that his comments about the team were kept in context with the facts. From the start of this year, he might as well be a paid shill for them, it's not good for the Beeb.

Still better than fukking Legard though....

Cookie_Monster

they always have Christian Horner on too. I'm sick of him and hearing about Red Bull already tbh

muckwarrior

I can just imagine the next race.

"Great weather this weekend David"
DC: "Yes, Red Bull have organised some great racing weather"

G-Money

I read somewhere that Red Bull were often complaining about the Renault engine but it's strange that the Renault team were not having the same failures. The article I read suggest that the fault actually lay with Red Bull and their installation of the engine.

The race was a bit dull alright, but I guess they should give it another one or two races before making any sudden rule changes.

I like the new superfast pit stops. The McLaren pitstop seems to be the most fluid, very nice to watch.

EvilMonkey

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Still better than fukking Legard though....

I had to listen to Legard for the race, I couldn't stand listening to Villeneuve on 5live Jackie Stewart was ok for qualifying though. I belive Ant will be back for Aus.

DC dose seem a bit worse this year(give him a chance its only round 1), i dont mind him being biased but he needs to tone it down a bit.

frostie500

In fairness to DC Red Bull had a fantastic second half to the season and was everyones favorite to develop the fastest car. Vettel put the car on pole, was comfortably leading the race prior to the failure. Yes its fair to say the team has some issues but I think its a bit far to ellude that they are not one of the top teams. They clearly are and while DC could do with evening things out a touch-blaming Renault when the evidence we had at the time-from the team-was that there was an exhaust problem wasnt the best impartial viewpoint. But in fairness to the man he is still fairly new to analysis and generally has been better than Eddie Jordan who for the vast majority of last year just tried to create firestorms with his comments

Tea 1000

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/824/6705/fastest_laps.html

tunguska

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I avoided all the results as I only watched the race tonight. Wow it was really terrible, practically nothing happened. That twat Legard really needs to put put in a closet and have the key thrown away. No suprise that most of the new teams didnt exactly go too far. Hopefully it was just a crap race and not a sign of things to come.

Was it really that bad? I missed this race myself, but by all acounts it was awful. Hard to believe with such potential for great racing this season what with schumaker back and all.

enzo7

Ya it was pretty poor alright, it it too early to say alonso is going to walk it???? still hopeing hamilton/mclaren can get their act together and give him a race for it!!!

Oblomov

Fastest Lap in the Race

Fernando Alonso.....Ferrari........1:58.287

Fastest Quali

Sebastian Vettel.....RBR-Ren.....1:55.029.....1:53.883......1:54.101

and

Fernando Alonso.....Ferrari........1:54.612.....1:54.172.......1:54.608


Race pace was 4.404 seconds slower.

Given that during the race the fuel load achieved its optimum weight and only tyres dictated speed.

But over 4 seconds slower.


The most contentious point, the new super duper diffusers create more turbulence and prevent closer racing and the possibility of overtaking.

Lessons to be learnt, fit monster rear tyres, throw away the diffusers and fit large rear wings..... Build your own engines... allow the designers more freedom... Bring back the days when six wheel F1 cars were allowed, full aerodynamic packages, the fan cars, bring back testing and use of wind tunnels. You would never get passed the Scrutineers with any new idea and the other teams would by filing protests before you've started the engines.

Sad

Get away from sterile thinking and conformity, allow more freedom...

Bernie talks about entertainment, how can there be entertainment with a convoy of multi million pound cars following each other for ... how long and nineteen different countries... well, eighteen to go.

The Overtaking Working Group has failed miserably, and still Bernie makes comments about not allowing the inmates to write the rules and regulations.....Has Bernie the reached senile dementia comatose condition?