Formula 1 2010: Round 1 Bahrain

amacachi

Also if the teams were given complete freedom over car design the wake of the aero would be probably 1.5-2 seconds.

Frank Bullitt

http://http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/getting-rid-of-aero-in-f1-the-counterargument/

Interesting article there on Allens site,he has Frank Dernie in it who has been around for donkeys in F1,makes some interesting points about gearboxes and the tyres.

amacachi

Frank talking quite a lot of rubbish there tbh.

frostie500

I've purposly avoided commenting on the 'state of F1' after the first race of the season but I really haven't liked what I've read online or in the press. Yes the Bahrain race wasn't great but I don't think the sky is falling just yet, changes may need to be made but I wish that the press and fans would exercise some patience and not make knee jerk reactions.

Bahrain has very rarely given us classic racing and it hasn't really been marginal on tyre wear in the past. Melbourne should give us a somewhat clearer viewpoint as last year the tyres were very marginal-remember Kubica and Vettel on different compounds last year crashing at the end of the race?

Dernie comments are quite good in that regard. Changing to a manual 'box has long been viewed as a positive move as it would allow drivers to miss a gear/overrev on a downchange etc. This wouldn't be a drastic change to the fabric of the sport as some other changes being mooted and it would not make for artifical changes to Grand Prix such as mandatory second stops. I realise that a change of this nature couldn't occur until next year but it would be a positive step in giving the driver more control.

I think it's important to remember that the last three years have been classics with great racing and a bit of perspective is probably needed before we make changes to F1

amacachi

frostie500 wrote: »

I've purposly avoided commenting on the 'state of F1' after the first race of the season but I really haven't liked what I've read online or in the press. Yes the Bahrain race wasn't great but I don't think the sky is falling just yet, changes may need to be made but I wish that the press and fans would exercise some patience and not make knee jerk reactions.

I would agree except I saw it coming.

Bahrain has very rarely given us classic racing and it hasn't really been marginal on tyre wear in the past. Melbourne should give us a somewhat clearer viewpoint as last year the tyres were very marginal-remember Kubica and Vettel on different compounds last year crashing at the end of the race?

Didn't Bridgestone make the Super Softs harder after that race due to all the complaints though?

Dernie comments are quite good in that regard. Changing to a manual 'box has long been viewed as a positive move as it would allow drivers to miss a gear/overrev on a downchange etc. This wouldn't be a drastic change to the fabric of the sport as some other changes being mooted and it would not make for artifical changes to Grand Prix such as mandatory second stops. I realise that a change of this nature couldn't occur until next year but it would be a positive step in giving the driver more control.

I'm sure you know yourself Dernie is just saying "Hey, it's not my fault, blame someone else."
The comment about high-downforce in bad weather is particularly laughable.

I think it's important to remember that the last three years have been classics with great racing and a bit of perspective is probably needed before we make changes to F1

Which is why many of us wonder why they went and changed it.

frostie500

amacachi wrote: »

I'm sure you know yourself Dernie is just saying "Hey, it's not my fault, blame someone else."
The comment about high-downforce in bad weather is particularly laughable.

Well I was mostly thinking in regard to the gearbox and changing to a manual. I don't know what the hell he was on about with the weather bit!

amacachi wrote: »

Which is why many of us wonder why they went and changed it.

Thats right, I don't know why changes were made after a great year last season that brought back a lot of fans. But I think that patience is needed now more than ever so that if solutions are sought they are the right ones

EvilMonkey

Something simple they could do is allow the cars be set-up for race conditions after qualifying.
We don't need a kneejerk reaction but this was predicted when banning fuel stops was suggested.

We defiantly don't need 2 mandatory stops, this will only benefit cars that are hard on tyres(funny how Whitmarsh and Horner think its a great idea) wont improve the racing, everyone will still be on the same strategy.

The biggest problem is the major changes they are making every year, Give the teams a stable period and lift some of the restrictions(its stupid that Renault cant bring there engine up to the power of the others) They will sort the problem of not being able to overtake. Obviously for teams that don't qualify at the front this would be a priority. Its not going to happen overnight though.

RayM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I am going to go for but I dont think we will ever see a return to manual gearboxes as much as we would like them to do so. It would be a huge step backwards and I dont think the pinnacle of motorsport that is F1 will want to be seen using manual gearboxes.

I think that's F1's biggest dilemma. What exactly does "pinnacle of motorsport" entail? Does it mean that the cars should be the ultimate in terms of technology, or that the drivers should be the ultimate in terms of skill? I would argue the latter. And if that means taking some retrograde steps as far as the technology is concerned, then that's fine by me. I just want to see some exciting racing - I don't care how advanced the machinery is.

I'd advocate fully manual gearboxes and stronger, heavier cars with less focus on aerodynamics and more on engine efficiency and mechanical grip. It should be possible to clash wheels in a slow corner without putting both cars out of the race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl2tIFxSEGA

Imagine watching Hamilton and Alonso having that kind of duel...

amacachi

TBH I think we all know the only way to improve the amount of overtaking to the old days is to have longer braking zones. But I think it can be guaranteed they're not gonna ever disimprove the brakes.

Oblomov

The advent of the automatic was for the emergency services, Fire police and ambulance.. allows the driver to concentrate on the vehicle and steering using both hands.. the application within F1 has greater implications, the manual gearbox and the missed gear would scrap the engines almost immediately. Reving under load is a totally different concept to free reving from a missed gear change.

Minimising driver control and , again, allowing greater car control creates better driving techniques and, ultimately, speed.

Cheque book engineering will always be there, the employment of people like, Adrian Newey is a prime example..... How many of the smaller teams could afford him, but the advantages ... incalculable.

The Brawn and Bryne, all cost mega bucks, and bring success.... the metallurgy arguments, Ferrari complaining about specialised coating on engine moving parts, getting it banned and then introducing their own and romping away with the title ..

The need for innovative engineering, from suspension, mass dampers, McLaren working with the Cambridge Uni to develop concepts now outside of the regulations... OK a level playing field but the essence of F1 as being the ultimate in automotive engineering .. sadly lost to the vehicle manufacturers.

The use of porcelain, the hyper use of exotic fuels, Honda and Toluene, grenade engines... all part of the rich history of F1 but now... Alas

The Recliner

I was at the race at the weekend, had access to the Pit lane on Thursday too

If people want I can throw the pics from the weekend into an album and post them up

BoardsRanger

The Recliner wrote: »

I was at the race at the weekend, had access to the Pit lane on Thursday too

If people want I can throw the pics from the weekend into an album and post them up

That would be great if you could put them into an album. Always like seeing what goes on in the pit lane.

The Recliner

BoardsRanger wrote: »

That would be great if you could put them into an album. Always like seeing what goes on in the pit lane.

I will try and sort that out over the next couple of days

Pit lane was quiet enough on Thursday with most cars just being there for show but there were some crews working on their cars (mostly the newer ones) and some drivers were around as well

I was sitting in the main stand opposite the pits for the weekend too so have some shots of them in action (thanks to a certain loveable Boardsie for sorting the tickets out)

joesoap007

it was a vert poor race. im ferrari to the bone and was realy shocked to see the cars were visibly slower on t.vthen last year..whats spa siliverstone monza going to be like? all fast tracks with slow cars..dont want to say it..but its not looking for f1 2010..monaco will be a joke to..


:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Lucy Lu

Bahrain was not the most interesting race. I personally feel the no re-fuelling dulled the race a lot.

As for the circuit itself I give it full praise. After being to a lot of GP's I was well impressed last weekend. The facalities, atmosphere and circuit managemnet were great and better compared with other ones.

Our 3 day ticket gave us entry to the pit lane on Thursday which was very interesting. I enjoyed it and was surprised at how plastic some cars look this year.

We were in the Grandstand opposite the pits. It was a great view of all that was going on.

It was very visible on the pit straight which cars were faster than others. Mercedes did not seem up to speed compared to other top teams.

I do hope future races are more exciting but I did have a wonderful experience at the Bahrain GP.

Glico Man

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Circuit facilities may be great but its a crap circuit from a drivers and a spectators point of view. The new section is very poor as my mate who was saying its completely mickey mouse to drive on. Not to mention that half the stands are empty. I say no to all these F1 race in places that have no motorsport history/interest.

Speaking of crap circuits, I was just checking out the Indian GP track that Tilke has designed and I must say it looks atrocious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaypee_Group_Circuit

Iron Hide

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Circuit facilities may be great but its a crap circuit from a drivers and a spectators point of view. The new section is very poor as my mate who was saying its completely mickey mouse to drive on. Not to mention that half the stands are empty. I say no to all these F1 race in places that have no motorsport history/interest.

Totally agree there. Too many boring circuits in F1 these days, Valencia and Singapore being two of the very worst, AND theres rumours of a Rome street race in 2012!
Bernies getting rid of fine tracks like Magny-Cours and shifting Grands Prix to wherever he can get more money for the race fees.
Bahrain and Abu Dhabi have zero racing history OR interest, but are loaded with oil money, and so are just going to keep offering Bernie higher and higher amounts to keep the GP's there.

Pretty ridiculous how a bunch of GP's take place in Asia, yet Bernie never cracked the US market, And its apparently a WORLD championship?

amacachi

That Indian track, coupla long straights, loada tight turns, who could possibly have designed it?


I really don't want F1 going down the street-track road, it's just not right.

EvilMonkey

What's the Korean one like?

lord lucan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_International_Circuit

Tbh that Korean track looks ****e.:mad:

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

What's the Korean one like?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Grand_Prix Think ya can ignore the bit between turns 3 and 12. Again it's two long straights and the rest wiggly bits. Looks more of a "proper" street course, though that doesn't make it any better in my eyes.

Erren Music

Disappointing race.

I expected the cars to get closer to q3 times. Looks like it's gonna be a dull year of cruising. Was hoping MS was gonna come to life near the end of the race.

frostie500

amacachi wrote: »

That Indian track, coupla long straights, loada tight turns, who could possibly have designed it?

That track looks really similar to Aida, Japan that hosted the Pacific GP in 94 and 95....and guess what the race was crap!

I don't understand why when developers are building a track they don't look at the Interlagas', Spa's, Mugello's, laguna Seca's. Philip Island's etc and see that the one thing all of the tracks that give great racing are fast, undulating and have a wide variety of corners. The great tracks aren't as you say a few long straights into tight turns

amacachi

frostie500 wrote: »

That track looks really similar to Aida, Japan that hosted the Pacific GP in 94 and 95....and guess what the race was crap!

I don't understand why when developers are building a track they don't look at the Interlagas', Spa's, Mugello's, laguna Seca's. Philip Island's etc and see that the one thing all of the tracks that give great racing are fast, undulating and have a wide variety of corners. The great tracks aren't as you say a few long straights into tight turns

What do you make of Portimao? It looks excellent to me, though I have a feeling if it hosted an F1 race they'd use the chicane on the last bend, ruining the one camera shot I'd be particularly looking forward to. :pac:

joesoap007

to hell with all them new tracks.f1 needs this one back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTPgqQxElg

Mike Litoris

joesoap007 wrote: »

to hell with all them new tracks.f1 needs this one back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTPgqQxElg

or this

joesoap007

might be a bit skinny in parts,,,, wouldin be to hard to fix..but il love to see a race here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bWOdY6mbU

zeris

joesoap007 wrote: »

might be a bit skinny in parts,,,, wouldin be to hard to fix..but il love to see a race here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bWOdY6mbU

Would also probably need to be extended as the track length is just a bit longer than Monaco. Good location though, just south of San Fran and on Highway 1. Timezone isn't great though for a 2pm start though.