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A Primal Nut

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PWTorch Exclusives
EXCLUSIVE: Former WWE writer says Vince McMahon disregards storyline inconsistencies, plus reveals what was planned for limo explosion angle 5 yrs. ago

Vince McMahon is returning to WWE Raw this coming Monday, and today on the PWTorch Livecast a former WWE Creative Team member Chris DeJoseph explains what it's like behind the scenes when Vince McMahon decides to appear on TV after an absence.

"I think there were numerous times where that could be brought up in totally different ways," DeJoseph, also known on air as Big Dick Johnson, says. "Sometimes it could be a request from the writing team. For the most part Vince didn't like to be on TV if he didn't have to be. I'm just using my own judgment here; I think this might have something to do with - usually it's like the McMahon Million Dollar Mania, or now the three hour Raws - I'm wondering if it's some kind of play to make some kind crazy announcement to get ratings."

Did the writing team usually collaborate with him or did he just say "this is what I'm doing"?

DeJoseph says: "There were lots of time where it was, 'We have this idea, we'd like to do it.' And he would be, like, 'Okay, that's great.' There were other times, for instance the Million Dollar thing, where he came to us with the idea and [that meant] we were doing it. (laughs)"

So what was the plan five years ago when Vince McMahon's limousine exploded, apparently with him inside of it, dying a fiery death - a storyline dropped abruptly after the real-life death of Chris Benoit and his family via murder-suicide.

"I think we were excited about it," says DeJoseph. "It was kind of a directive from the network in a way to try to create a huge story arc of - I think at the time everybody was into Whodunit? Okay, we are given the task of coming up with a Whodunit? We sat around that room enough hours and days and finally came up with: We're going to blow up Vince. We had a pretty long-term storyline. I don't know if we have a complete, defined finish of who it was or why it was done. I think that was going to be an evolving process. We couldn't necessarily get an answer out of the boss. Sometimes that's a little difficult. Even if you did get a definitive answer it would probably change anyway."

Was the idea to sell the idea he would have died inside the explosion? "Yes, I think the idea was for Vince to just be missing and his body is burned beyond recognition, he is gone, something like that, I think.
The idea was to say he was actually dead."

And where would the storyline go from there? What was the point of it all? Says DeJoseph: "I think it was going to be a scramble for power in the company. That was really the idea behind it. Now that he was gone, everybody was fighting for power and everybody has different motives. What were some of those motives to get the power?"

That was one example of a storyline being dropped before it was resolved, but that was a special circumstance due to the awful Benoit family situation.

In general, though, did Vince care about storyline consistency? No, says DeJoseph.

"It would always be brought up. Logic would always be brought up, but sometimes it'd just be thrown right out the window. He'd sometimes say he couldn't even remember what happened three weeks ago, so how is the audience going to remember it? I think sometimes that was his thought…"

DeJoseph says the blame should be on Vince himself, and not the writing team, for the big gaps in logic, dropped storylines, and stream of aggravating contradictions. He says the writing team typically tries to fix any gaps in logic.

"I'm sure they're going to try or at least they've been pitching all week or they're going to try to explain something. I'm sure they have something in mind to explain it logically. If they don't that'll be interesting, too."

The attitude is Vince doesn't think it's ultimately important to business or the bottom line. "It's a big promotional thing that's going to get eyeballs on this TV show and I think that's what he thinks [matters]," DeJoseph says.

Does it chip away at fans investing in the product? "Yeah, it sucks. [Fans have to be thinking,] 'Why should I invest my time and everything into this storyline when they're just going to sh-- on it without explanation.' I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they will on Monday. I don't know what they're going to do on Monday."

DeJoseph says the writing team cares even when Vince doesn't. "At least when I was there, and I'm sure it's still the same way, we would try to present every logical thing. We'd say we need to explain that, and whether it was ignored or we were told 'No, we f---in' don't,' that's the way it was."

If not for Vince, the writers such as Michael Hayes, Ed Koskie, and Brian Gewirtz would try to make sense of their ideas, but with Vince "you're constantly dealing with switching and changing things," says DeJoseph.

"Sometimes it's even hard for yourself to keep up on everything. I think they would try for sure. I'm sure when they knew that Vince was coming back, it was probably one of the first things that came up - how in the hell are we going to explain why he's back. And then it was probably, like, 'Don't f---in' worry about it.' And they go, 'Okay.' I think the writing team wants what most fans want because, for the most part, they're all fans."

Also seen this on Yahoo Answers:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090214070126AAaPQfI

It is all staged.But the storyline never was continued because Chris Benoit and his family was found dead,and the death of McMahon was not funny anymore.So the week before Stephanie had said there would be a memorial for Vince McMahon tribute it was changed for Benoit.Before they knew the extent of what he did.But they had found out what really happened by Wednesday that is when the media really started on the wwe case.But the storyline was supposed to turn out to be Paul London apparently,because he was the only one smiling when Vince was leaving the building.It was supposed to be his big break and he was suppose to go on to win the championship.But benoit really ruined that storyline.So it was scrapped.And they never really had another storyline for London.

Not a real source though.

gimmick

^ That Yahoo link above is utter bollocks. London got sacked for sniggering while Vince was walking out through the roster. Or at least that was one of the final straws.

Dancor

gimmick wrote: »

^ That Yahoo link above is utter bollocks. London got sacked for sniggering while Vince was walking out through the roster. Or at least that was one of the final straws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhnY8J_MkA

Legend

cena

How did they this. Surely he was hanging to long. How did he not die

ceegee

Looks like the rope is hooked onto a harness under his top just above the noose, when they show him from the side you can see his clothes are riding up at the back.

The more important question is IS IT SYMBOLIC ???

Reganio 2

How come Kurt Angle came into the WWF as a heel? Was he meant to be a heel? It seems like the American's would love the ultimate American hero, won us gold in the Olympics blah blah. But he gets boo'd on his debut.

rovert

Always meant to be a heel and a reaction to the flop that was the Rock's initial run as a babyface.

Loughc

Reganio 2 wrote: »

How come Kurt Angle came into the WWF as a heel? Was he meant to be a heel? It seems like the American's would love the ultimate American hero, won us gold in the Olympics blah blah. But he gets boo'd on his debut.

I'm pretty certain I saw on a dvd somewhere that Vince said they made the promo videos for Kurt Angle as neutral as possible and that they would let the crowd decide if he would be a face or a heel when he debuted. And they choose heel and the rest is history!

A Primal Nut

This is his pre-debut vignette. Kurt Angle would of been a hero in the 1980's but him being booed was typical of the attitude era where cheesy, overly goody goody heroes were not liked. Although the vignette is neutral, he does come across a bit cheesy...mentioning the three I's - intelligence, integrity, intensity. So it was natural for him to be booed in the era when trash talkers Stone Cold and The Rock were at their height.

He only got slight boos in his first match but then he got on the mic and said "You do not boo an olympic gold medallist" so of course he got booed even more.

If what lockie1983 said is true, then his debut is even more interesting. Perhaps they had different plans depending on the reaction he got. If he debuted in his hometown it might have been a different story.

On another note, Razor Ramon's pre-debut vignette in that video is amazing.

Loughc

A Primal Nut wrote: »

If what lockie1983 said is true, then his debut is even more interesting. Perhaps they had different plans depending on the reaction he got. If he debuted in his hometown it might have been a different story.

Oh it's true, it's true, it's damn true! :P

CMpunked

Whose is that face after Razor in that vid?

I feel like i've been brain raped.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Attitude era audience at first weren't too taken with Angle implementing traits of amateur wrestling into pro. Remember the loud boring chants on the night of his debut.

CMpunked

Anyone ever who introduces himself like "I am YOUR olympic hero" generally never goes over well.
Wonder what would happen now if an olympic amateur wrestler tried to make the jump to the wwe. Or would they just go into mma.

Charisteas

CMpunked wrote: »

Whose is that face after Razor in that vid?

I feel like i've been brain raped.

Sid Vicious.

GTR63

Why did it take Matt Morgan so long to debut make his in ring debut with Tna, he seemed to be Cornette's bodyguard? for ages.

gnfnrhead

GTR63 wrote: »

Why did it take Matt Morgan so long to debut make his in ring debut with Tna, he seemed to be Cornette's bodyguard? for ages.

Cause he sucked but was a decent talker. I think he was supposed to be training in the meantime.

Stereomaniac

They often bring guys in gradually while they iron out a few creases in training, I think........

Mr.Nice Guy

Was there a reason Steven Richards never got a push after the Right To Censor disbanded? He went from being one of the most hated characters on the show to a mere jobber.

TechnoFreek

What is up with Rybacks eye? It's been like that now for ages it seems!

Stereomaniac

Is that not just the way his eye is? Look at Thom Yorke, or Jonsi, it could be a whole lot worse!

Sephiroth_dude

when will we see the lad that won tough enough last year?

Lord TSC

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

when will we see the lad that won tough enough last year?

Whenever TNA sign him.

WWE released him quietly iirc.

Lord TSC

Has there been any word on the status of Mason Ryan? He did those segments with AW and Primo/Epico backstage and I can't remember seeing him since...

Charisteas

Re: Damian Sandow's gimmick, promos, quill at signings, is it the brain child of the man himself, or can the writers take all the credit, or was it possibly Triple H's idea?

It's reminiscent of a mid 90's Hunter Hearst Helmsley so I would have thought that HHH wouldn't want a similar gimmick wasted on just anyone, i'm guessing HHH sees something special in this guy and could have suggested Sandow mimic his Conneticut Blueblood character from 1995. Even more so because it was Sandow who interrupted DX at Raw 1000.

Charisteas

Another question, which a mod can move to here if he deems.

There has been a lot of debate regarding the recent direction of the company which is coinciding with Linda McMahons political campaign. WWE writers are walking on egg shells and seemingly taking a zero policy on anything they deem crossing the line. Daniel Bryan,. Fit Finlay, and Abraham Washington are three of the high profile casualties (although they do seem open to second chances).

So when Linda's campaign is all said and done (assuming she doesn't win) can we expect WWE to loosen their belts in terms of edgier storylines and giving talent more freedom again?

gerrybbadd

Charisteas wrote: »

Another question, which a mod can move to here if he deems.

There has been a lot of debate regarding the recent direction of the company which is coinciding with Linda McMahons political campaign. WWE writers are walking on egg shells and seemingly taking a zero policy on anything they deem crossing the line. Daniel Bryan,. Fit Finlay, and Abraham Washington are three of the high profile casualties (although they do seem open to second chances).

So when Linda's campaign is all said and done (assuming she doesn't win) can we expect WWE to loosen their belts in terms of edgier storylines and giving talent more freedom again?

The PG era will be round for a long long time. Its not only Linda's campaign. The WWE have a huge deal with Mattel, or some other toy maker, and its for this reason more than anything that wwe have gone in a PG direction.

gnfnrhead

Charisteas wrote: »

Another question, which a mod can move to here if he deems.

There has been a lot of debate regarding the recent direction of the company which is coinciding with Linda McMahons political campaign. WWE writers are walking on egg shells and seemingly taking a zero policy on anything they deem crossing the line. Daniel Bryan,. Fit Finlay, and Abraham Washington are three of the high profile casualties (although they do seem open to second chances).

So when Linda's campaign is all said and done (assuming she doesn't win) can we expect WWE to loosen their belts in terms of edgier storylines and giving talent more freedom again?

They make a lot more money this way. It won't be as strict, but it won't be much of a difference in the short to medium term.

Stereomaniac

In my opinion, the risqué material of the late 1990s was only to get them out of the danger zone.

rovert

Charisteas wrote: »

Re: Damian Sandow's gimmick, promos, quill at signings, is it the brain child of the man himself, or can the writers take all the credit, or was it possibly Triple H's idea?

It's reminiscent of a mid 90's Hunter Hearst Helmsley so I would have thought that HHH wouldn't want a similar gimmick wasted on just anyone, i'm guessing HHH sees something special in this guy and could have suggested Sandow mimic his Conneticut Blueblood character from 1995. Even more so because it was Sandow who interrupted DX at Raw 1000.

What I do you know/what has been reported: Sandow right now is regarded as a HHH project. X-Pac/Sean Waltman said that Sandow was specifically picked to be in the DX segment on RAW 1000 as Hunter was high on Sandow.

My own speculation: Is that Sandow came up with that gimmick himself as it predates the period were Hunter took an active interest in developmental publicly at least. Not only that but Sandow has reinvented himself a million times both in terms of finding a gimmick that will catch Creatives eye/get him called up to WWE as well as just evolving as a performer. He has been everything from a pretty boy to a bruiser to skinny to fat to jacked. Another reason why I think Sandow came up with it is his character's name Waltman noted Sandow a was student of game that watches & reads everything. Billy Sandow was a significant force in Wrestling in the 1920s as a part of The Gold Dust Trio:

The Gold Dust Trio was a group of promoters who controlled the world of professional wrestling during the 1920s while also making several fundamental changes to the industry's business model and operations that would ultimately change the direction of the sport towards a more pseudo-competitive exhibition. The Trio was composed of the era's dominant World Heavyweight Champion Ed "Strangler" Lewis and his manager Billy Sandow, as well as fellow wrestler and creative visionary Joseph "Toots" Mondt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sandow

gerrybbadd wrote: »

The PG era will be round for a long long time. Its not only Linda's campaign. The WWE have a huge deal with Mattel, or some other toy maker, and its for this reason more than anything that wwe have gone in a PG direction.

What Gerry said. Also underratedly Stephanie and Hunter are only going to get older and more conservative. They are parents of young children and are in that headspace. Not like they are running around nightclubs or have time to sample the latest trends.

Charisteas

gerrybbadd wrote: »

The PG era will be round for a long long time. Its not only Linda's campaign. The WWE have a huge deal with Mattel, or some other toy maker, and its for this reason more than anything that wwe have gone in a PG direction.

Whilst I thought Linda's campaign was more important than sponsors, it's frustrating that the direction of the company is dictated by a sponsor. Whilst Mattel may have a lucrative contract, sponsors do come and go. When does the Mattel contract expire?