Harney must go

RobAMerc

In light of the revelations from Tallaght, even the most belligerent of TD's ( as she is ) must admit they are not doing a good enough job, be held accountable and resign from office, no ?

I see no reason to apportion blame for the death of that patient to anyone else but MH.

BTW - I believe there is a better chance of Shergar winning the Grand National again !

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RobAMerc

yea sorry - typo, you are too quick for me

BeardyFunzo

Can't believe I'm about to stick up for Mary H...

Do you seriously expect her to run every single hospital in the country?

Yes she's the minister for health, but that cannot mean that she's responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals. Sure the Tallaght thing is an incredibly bad situation, but it's Tallaght's bad situation. The ball was dropped there and heads should roll there.

jimmycrackcorm

We'd be replacing the Minister every week at this rate.

Guy:Incognito

and what will a different politician do as health minister? Are you expecting them to go in and manage a hospital on a local level?

Long after the current government are gone, the same Civil servants will still be running the country.

oppenheimer1

Its the kind of posts by the OP that make me disenfranchised with boards. I'm glad few seem to agree with him.

Euro_Kraut

The people who plotted to cover up this scandal should resign. That includes the current Chief Ex who found out about this in December and decided to keep it on the QT.

If Harney knew and colluded in this cover up than she should go. Otherwise its the board of Tallaght Hospital that should go. If it was not for Fergal Bowers good journalism we would still be completely in the dark about this. Shameful carry on.

donkey balls

having worked for a global company operating in 220 countries with over 300,000 staff,you could not expect the CEO of the company to know everything this is were the comparison ends.
the company has a chain of command from mgr to snr mgr MD VP President etc,local issues are dealt with the managers on site if they cannot rectify them it goes upto the next chain of command untill its sorted.

be interesting to hear the excuses made over this one to be honest i cant see anyone taken the blame, afaik drumms contract is up sometime this year maybe he will resign over it and get a nice pay off like others before him:rolleyes:in other depts.

bijapos

donkey balls wrote: »

the company has a chain of command from mgr to snr mgr MD VP President etc,local issues are dealt with the managers on site if they cannot rectify them it goes upto the next chain of command untill its sorted.

be interesting to hear the excuses made over this one to be honest i cant see anyone taken the blame, afaik drumms contract is up sometime this year maybe he will resign over it and get a nice pay off like others before him:rolleyes:in other depts.

True, but in most ordinary companies if someone were to make a mess of this size over a period of 4 years they would have to suffer the consuquences and go.

Here no managers will have to leave because of this, enen more daunting, they will have the right to stay on.

By no means am I infavour of a hire and fire attitude in the public or civil service but some form of punishment for gross neglect has to be introduced at some stage.

gizmo555

donkey balls wrote: »

having worked for a global company operating in 220 countries with over 300,000 staff,you could not expect the CEO of the company to know everything this is were the comparison ends.

Truman's famous sign from the Oval Office - here in Ireland, sadly, the buck stops nowhere . . .

danman

I constantly read about our "3rd World Healthcare", let me tell you my experiance.

I've had a chronic illness for over 25 years. I need constant care by a consultant and his team. I've required many operations and medications in the past and will need them well into the future.

I spent 10 years getting my care in the UK.

It was only when I moved home and was refered to Tallaght that I started to get proper treatment.
If I have any problems, all I have to do is ring the consultant and I will get to see one of his team on the Wednesday.

I personally know a consultant in my illness, who works in NI.
He has told me that the medications that I've been prescribed, would never be given to me in the UK. He's not allowed to prescribe them, only in extreme circumstances, because of the cost.

When the chemists were going to stop taking the drugs payment scheme card, it was only then that I realise the cost. I was going to have to pay just under €5,000 per month for my drugs.

I'm lucky that I get these drugs, because if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to work and pay my own way.

All we read about in the press and here, are the bad stories.
In my own personal experiance, I would much prefer to stay in our health system than any other.
I'm a member of a support forum for my illness, that has many members from all over the world. They cannot get the support that I get for free, unless they pay
massive amouts of money.

I moved to NI for a short period 5 years ago, and I kept my doctor in the Rep.

By the way, I'm a public patient, not private.

Sleepy

Just out of interest, what other Government TD would you propose could do a better job than Harney?

There's a reason she's still in the job: there's no one else capable or prepared to do it.

There's huge problems in the HSE and I'd imaging given carte blanche Harney could fix most of them inside a year. Problem is, in the real world the unions and other vested interests (e.g. the pharmacists) won't let her.

danman

Regardsless what people think of her, she doesn't give a ****e.
She's the only TD that doesn't care about re-election. She's not standing again.

She's the only person that can try to push through reform without worrying about voters.

Do any of know what she is doing day to day?
We all know that the HSE is a monster. I would rather her in thar job than a TD that is going to try to get re-elected.

Biggins

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Can't believe I'm about to stick up for Mary H...

Do you seriously expect her to run every single hospital in the country?

Yes she's the minister for health, but that cannot mean that she's responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals. Sure the Tallaght thing is an incredibly bad situation, but it's Tallaght's bad situation. The ball was dropped there and heads should roll there.

The problem is this, they, the Mafia in the Dail, won't give the money to see that treatments are done right at the proper time but later when all of a sudden the shocking shortfalls and consequences become apparent and thus the effect they have had - THEN - they rush in with money they have marvellously found somewhere! Too little and always too late for the dead!

The Health Service Executive (HSE) was also unable to say why it failed to make it public in December.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thousands-still-in-the-dark-over-xray-scandal-2093462.html

We all bloody know why! They didn't want the world to know Harney (who is being VERY quite please note! Where is she AGAIN?) and they are bloody useless AGAIN!

Meanwhile Harney is staying quiet, very quiet having disappeared off the scene again - and perhaps trying yet again, to ride out the storm.
SERIOUSLY - why should this woman (and Drum) still keep her job!

..and is there now a legal basis for cases for "negligence" or similar in the offing because of this yet again, another screw-up?

hallelujajordan

Biggins wrote: »

We all bloody know why! They didn't want the world to know Harney (who is being VERY quite please note! Where is she AGAIN?) and they are bloody useless AGAIN!

Meanwhile Harney is staying quiet, very quiet having disappeared off the scene again

Wasn't she on Morning Ireland this morning ?

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Wasn't she on Morning Ireland this morning ?

I do not know, perhaps someone will confirm, I could say she was possibly on the cartoon network too and I might be wrong!

IF she has re-appeared, it won't be for long!

hallelujajordan

Biggins wrote: »

I do not know, perhaps someone will confirm, I could say she was possibly on the cartoon network too and I might be wrong!

IF she has re-appeared, it won't be for long!

http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/

Hagar

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Do you seriously expect her to run every single hospital in the country?

Yes she's the minister for health, but that cannot mean that she's responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals. Sure the Tallaght thing is an incredibly bad situation, but it's Tallaght's bad situation. The ball was dropped there and heads should roll there.

I can't believe she still has a job.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We'd be replacing the Minister every week at this rate.

Please God, only about 16 weeks to go.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/

Thank you. Much appreciated.
By the way, in that interview she stated that "she was very far away" HER WORDS - so she could be ringing from America as far as we know!
Where is she?

I love the bit "Mary Harney, Minister for Health, says that she was made aware of the problem in December, but only came to appreciate the full scale yesterday"

So she knew about 58,000+ x-rays not being looked at (since December at least) but as it came into public light in the last 24 hours, she amazingly at the same time "came to fully appreciate..." - is she taking the proverbial piss out of us all or what?

Vim Fuego

She's in New Zealand according to a post on politics.ie...

http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/125449-where-mary-harney.html

Biggins

Vim Fuego wrote: »

She's in New Zealand according to a post on politics.ie...

http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/125449-where-mary-harney.html

Thanks - very nice for her!

Meanwhile my daughter that has had to wait FOUR years - FOUR years for an MRI scan that has been given in the last few days, a precious appointment - is good?
NOPE!
The date that she WAS to get her scan is on the days that seven hospitals are going on strike!
Great isn't it! :mad:

FOUR fcuking years!!! :mad::mad::mad:

Here is a copy of the letter - you will appreciate/understand why I have removed identifying details of the child.

DrumSteve

Biggins wrote: »

Thanks - very nice for her!

Meanwhile my daughter that has had to wait FOUR years - FOUR years for an MRI scan has been given in the last two days an appointment - good?
NOPE!
The date that she WAS to get her scan is on the days that seven hospitals are going on strike!
Great isn't it! :mad:

FOUR fcuking years!!! :mad::mad::mad:

wow. thats bollocks.

you have my sympathy man.

Biggins

DrumSteve wrote: »

wow. thats bollocks.
you have my sympathy man.

I spent the whole of last night trying to console/calm my wife down while trying to contain my own rage - and trust me, it wasn't easy.
Its just as well that some of our TD's are out of the country. :mad:

jmayo

RobAMerc wrote: »

In light of the revelations from Tallaght, even the most belligerent of TD's ( as she is ) must admit they are not doing a good enough job, be held accountable and resign from office, no ?

I see no reason to apportion blame for the death of that patient to anyone else but MH.

BTW - I believe there is a better chance of Shergar winning the Grand National again !

Shergar was a flat racer, never jumps my son

On topic, harney like the rest is never responsible for any of the organisations under her department's control.
That was why HSE was set up as yet another useless quangoe to absolve the politicos of responsible.

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Can't believe I'm about to stick up for Mary H...

Do you seriously expect her to run every single hospital in the country?

Yes she's the minister for health, but that cannot mean that she's responsible for the day to day running of the hospitals. Sure the Tallaght thing is an incredibly bad situation, but it's Tallaght's bad situation. The ball was dropped there and heads should roll there.

She shoudl have gone years ago, deaths in Cavan, consultants refusing to work, cancer misdiagnosis in Portlaosie/Ennis, social services fu** ups, private nursing homes letting people die needlessly (yes they affectively did through substandard care and one was fined 5,000 odd grand), withdrawing cancer vaccine for young girls, etc, etc.
It is one disaster after another and nothing is ever really done.

She should be responsible for having heads roll and yet again we will see this in this case that nothign happens.

All we ever get is the statement it was a systemic failure, but who are the system but people. Do any of these people ever get their ar**es shown the door.

Dear God in France when the contamination of blood products for hemophiliacs came out people were fired and the minister of health found guilty of manslughter even though he never served his sentence.
What did we do?
FU** ALL, but have another enquiry that resulted in shag all but throwing a few quid to people to clear off.

donkey balls wrote: »

having worked for a global company operating in 220 countries with over 300,000 staff,you could not expect the CEO of the company to know everything this is were the comparison ends.
the company has a chain of command from mgr to snr mgr MD VP President etc,local issues are dealt with the managers on site if they cannot rectify them it goes upto the next chain of command untill its sorted.

be interesting to hear the excuses made over this one to be honest i cant see anyone taken the blame, afaik drumms contract is up sometime this year maybe he will resign over it and get a nice pay off like others before him:rolleyes:in other depts.

Yes, as you said if said company does not perform people are fired, then managers are fired and if that doesn't happen then someone higher up gets the bullet or eventually it leads to the CEO getting the boot.
Here no one is ever responsible and this is from the top right down to the porters who are partial to taking sickies.

gizmo555 wrote: »

Truman's famous sign from the Oval Office - here in Ireland, sadly, the buck stops nowhere . . .

Oh no the buck stops here at the bottom where in this case patients suffer and die needlessly.
That right when the HSE/hospitals fu** up people can die.
It's not like Fás fu**ing up where someone spends lavishly on hairstyles (funny same person different story :rolleyes:) or some people get a pass on some dodgy course.
Yes money is needlessly wasted and the training resulting is poor, but nobody dies.

To all the excusers of harney and her colleagues in the Dept of Health and HSE read Biggins post please.

The HSE is a perfect example of how bad this society has become, where the attitiude is if this doesn't directly affect me then who cares.

Well someday it could be one of yours that is lying on a trolley, misdiagnosed, or not have an xray results returned in adequate time.

ednwireland

Cowen has Confidence in harney

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0310/breaking34.html

shame none of the rest us have any confidence in him or any of his ministers

the only thing i see harney trying to do is a wholesale drive towards private health care instead of putting her head on the chopping block and reforming the system (anyone gone from the hse ? since they merged the health boards)

if she had any humanity she would go

if she knew abiout this in december she should have stood up in the dail pointed out the problem, sacked the consultant who couldnt be bothered to do his job and got on with fixing the problem but no the gov's way is to hide it and hope no one finds out

she's on a 15 day trade missio to new zealand btw with her husband, 3 private sec's and a health board official, some trade mission, nice work if you can get it

DrumSteve

Biggins wrote: »

I spent the whole of last night trying to console/calm my wife down while trying to contain my own rage - and trust me, it wasn't easy.
Its just as well that some of our TD's are out of the country. :mad:

Fair play man.

Politics response-it'd be fairly understandable to vent your anger but i suppose the only thing you can do is remeber this come the next election and continue to highlight the governments failings.

AH Response- set them all on fire.

bonzos

Just heard on newstalk that harney is on a 15 day junket in NZ for Paddys day with her husband.....last i heard paddys day was not until this day week! I cant see many companys in NZ setting up business in ireland as a result of her visit:rolleyes:She is a total disgrace and should be sacked . The country is on its knees and we are sending a pack millionaire bullsh*ters on a 15 day drinking holiday.John o donoghue must be jealous

bamboozle

another example of the sham dept she reigns over

Inquiry over lack of hospital porter
Friday, 2 November 2007 17:30

The Minister for Health, Mary Harney, has asked the head of the HSE for a full report on an incident at the Mid-Western Regional Hospital in Limerick.

The problem arose last Tuesday when no porter was available to push a patient to theatre for emergency surgery. 53 porters are employed at the hospital.

The patient, a teenage girl, was suffering from internal bleeding and when a porter was paged but none was available.
Advertisement

Eventually a manager and the girl's parents pushed her to theatre.

The HSE says when the incident happened 11 of the porters employed at the hospital were out sick, three were on long-term sick leave and eight had called in sick that day.

The problem appears to have arise from the refusal by staff to co-operate with the redeployment measures, which the HSE is insisting be implemented to deal with the budgetary cutbacks being imposed by the HSE nationwide.

In addition there are problems with the high levels of absenteeism at the hospital.

Minister Harney has said the lack of a porter was incredible.

She said the situation regarding lack of porter staff and the high levels of absenteeism are unacceptable.

The HSE says it is carrying out its own internal investigation into the incident.

lucyli

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We'd be replacing the Minister every week at this rate.

Should have been just replaced all ready.
Funny didnt she lose her seat and got reinstated by cowen or am i wrong

anymore

Well this is probably the last junket for herself and her husband.. When she quits politics, she and her husband will have to go on holidays on th
eir own, without flunkeys to do their every whim ! And she will have to pay for her own hairdos !
Look on this as a pre retirement adjustment period.

Biggins

lucyli wrote: »

Should have been just replaced all ready.
Funny didnt she lose her seat and got reinstated by cowen or am i wrong

FF can't afford for her to lose her seat. Its that simple.

lucyli

Biggins wrote: »

FF can't afford for her to lose her seat. Its that simple.

Who was minister for health before she was reinstated and why was she removed and returned? Hopefully they will lose her seat and all out after her.

BeardyFunzo

lucyli wrote: »

Funny didnt she lose her seat and got reinstated by cowen or am i wrong

Nope, she was elected. Since when do you think that Cowan get the power to elect people?

lucyli

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Nope, she was elected. Since when do you think that Cowan get the power to elect people?

I wasnt paying much attention but in last elections i seem to recall.Delight when Mary harney was no longer minister for health then Brian cowen stepped in and she again is minister for health.Is it she didn't want the job and they gave it to her anyway She was not voted for by the people into position.Didn't say he had power to elect them in he put her forward.Who was minister for health in the small time she was out? She doesn't want that job she should be out.

danman

lucyli wrote: »

Who was minister for health before she was reinstated and why was she removed and returned? Hopefully they will lose her seat and all out after her.

She was in health before the election andgiven the same ministry after
the election.

She's not standing in the next election, so she will not lose her seat.

Mad_Max

Biggins wrote: »

FOUR fcuking years!!! :mad::mad::mad:

Holy mother of God! 4 years. That has me speechless. I'd camp outside the fat one's door with that letter and see how she reacted to it.

BeardyFunzo

LucyLi:
Ok just to clear things up:

A person can be elected to a seat in the Dail.

The Taoiseach then give ministries to members of the Dail.

People don't elect anyone to ministries, we don't get a say in who becomes the minister for health as its the Taoiseach's choice.

Please don't call a ministry a seat as that just confuses.

She never stepped down as minister for health before the election, that would have ruined her election chances, as she was running as an independent and her polling wasn't looking good up to the election. I also had an argument with her on my door step about private health insurance, which I wouldn't have done if she were not the minister for health..

Biggins:
I can only imagine your frustration. An unbelievable situation.

IrishTonyO

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

She never stepped down as minister for health before the election, that would have ruined her election chances, as she was running as an independent and her polling wasn't looking good up to the election.

No she ran as a PD the last election not independent

BeardyFunzo

IrishTonyO wrote: »

No she ran as a PD the last election not independent

I stand corrected sir. Though I doubt running as a PD helped her at the time!

To get back on track-

After watching the news this evening and having a good think about it I would probably be in favour of someone else having a go at the health portfolio as there have been too many cockups and no enough siht-kicking in the dept of health. But the thing is a poisoned chalice and she's the only one willing to do it as it would be political suicide for anyone else to take it.

She won't resign over this and I doubt she'll be pushed out by the reshuffle.

jackcee

danman wrote: »

I constantly read about our "3rd World Healthcare", let me tell you my experiance.

I've had a chronic illness for over 25 years. I need constant care by a consultant and his team. I've required many operations and medications in the past and will need them well into the future.

I spent 10 years getting my care in the UK.

It was only when I moved home and was refered to Tallaght that I started to get proper treatment.
If I have any problems, all I have to do is ring the consultant and I will get to see one of his team on the Wednesday.

I personally know a consultant in my illness, who works in NI.
He has told me that the medications that I've been prescribed, would never be given to me in the UK. He's not allowed to prescribe them, only in extreme circumstances, because of the cost.

When the chemists were going to stop taking the drugs payment scheme card, it was only then that I realise the cost. I was going to have to pay just under €5,000 per month for my drugs.

I'm lucky that I get these drugs, because if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to work and pay my own way.

All we read about in the press and here, are the bad stories.
In my own personal experiance, I would much prefer to stay in our health system than any other.
I'm a member of a support forum for my illness, that has many members from all over the world. They cannot get the support that I get for free, unless they pay
massive amouts of money.

I moved to NI for a short period 5 years ago, and I kept my doctor in the Rep.

By the way, I'm a public patient, not private.

Fair play to you, Danman.

A thoughtful, intelligent, informative, informed and open post - yet, not one response.
Amazing.
Extraordinary.
But then, maybe not.

BTW - I hope your situation improves. Your balanced view of the world is a credit to you.

Biggins

I just wish jackcee, that you just as much sympathise to those at the other end of the HSE work/health patient conditions/treatments scale.
That such a place exists too?

My daughter would get the best treatment in the world if only the HSE and Harney would step aside and let her get it - instead of screwing up repeatedly!