"Cyclists" are the problem

Harrybelafonte

I've wanted to write this for awhile as a protest at the amount of "motorists/peds are the problem" or "ruined my day" threads, all of which I agree with, but think we need to look at other cyclists actions too and how it adds to the crap that goes on on the roads etc

So in last two weeks I've nearly been knocked off bike by filtering cyclists not looking where they're going, cyclists pulling out or changing direction without checking around them or making effort to indicate, cyclists coming towards me on the wrong side of the road (my kids principal has done this too I see). I'm sure there's more and I'm sure others have suffered worse, but though I'd even things out a bit, cos once the weather improves it's gonna get hella worse.

One more thing, I know the world and her mother have gone fixed and nobody dare criticise, but I see one more pleb on a fixed gear with no straps/clips I'll **********

Peterx

it boils down to other people:)

jaqian

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

So in last two weeks I've nearly been knocked off bike by filtering cyclists not looking where they're going, cyclists pulling out or changing direction without checking around them or making effort to indicate, cyclists coming towards me on the wrong side of the road

I've had simialar happen to me, bikes just suddenly stop in front or cut across without any indication etc. Probably controversial (expect to get shot down) but I think maybe cyclists should have to do a basic course on rules of the road before beging allowed in the city centre. I think ads on TV highlighting proper signalling for cyclists would be good as well. Bad cyclists give the rest of us a bad name.

I see one more pleb on a fixed gear with no straps/clips I'll **********

Whats the big deal over this? They're obviously using it to commute and not race.

mal1

I agree whole heartedly with your first rant but unfortunately I don't see your logic in the second.

Anyway, seems like most cyclists are getting increasingly ill-mannered on their bikes. I was cycling at a good speed down a long road the other day. There was this other guy right behind me at the same speed. We approach a slower cyclist and before i go to overtake i look behind me to check traffic and suddenly as i move to overtake, the guy behind me overtakes both of us (without checking what was happening behind him). He knew i was going to overtake but he didn't give me the space. I had to wait until he had passed us both before i could move. Assh0le!

Jawgap

To quote the famous Euro cyclist -

"Hell is other people cyclists"


......and on a more pessimistic note - the "problem" will only get worse coming into summer.

Personally, I like it when there's more cyclists about, even if they do add to the challenge of city commuting!

Jip

Really, another thread on this ?

seamus

People are the problem.

I hate when people stop in front of me to look in a shop window, and when they cross Grafton street at right angles to go into a shop, not caring that I'm coming up the street.
I hate it when there's clearly a flow of people all going one way and one idiot who decides he's going to go the opposite way.
I hate it when a crowd gathers to watch someone and the people at the back have no consideration for people trying to get by, instead blocking up the path for everyone.
I hate it when two or more people walk side-by-side really slowly and don't stand in to let you pass.

But I would never say that "Pedestrians are the problem".

Chips Lovell

seamus wrote: »

But I would never say that "Pedestrians are the problem".

I would. Pedestrians are b*****ds. The big circle around the busker on Grafton Street thing is my pet hate. I always just walk straight through the middle.

Harrybelafonte

Jip wrote: »

Really, another thread on this ?

Yeah, sorry. I'd usually be with you and your sense of despair, but every time I open the forum we're having a go at motorists and peds and i just thought a reminder might be in order.

Re the straps, from Sheldon"

"Pedals

he most important characteristic to look for in choosing pedals for a fixed-gear bike is good ground clearance. You should also choose pedals that are easy to get in and out of, because both operations are somewhat complicated by the fact that the pedals will be in motion.

Generally, I recommend using whatever pedal/shoe system you are most used to. Getting used to fixed gear riding is challenge enough without also trying to get used to a new pedal system at the same time!

When I used to use toe-clips and straps, I fit two toe straps to each pedal, partly because they help keep my feet in better alignment (since I don't use cleats) and partly for safety. Toe straps can get highly stressed on a fixed-gear bicycle, and if they break, unpleasant consequences may ensue.

Sometimes, novice fixed-gear riders will try to use plain pedals with no form of retention system. I strongly advise against this. Riding fixed with plain pedals is an advanced fixed gear skill, only recommended for experienced fixed-gear riders."

Maybe I'm wrong and all these guys are really experienced, but am yet to come across a genuinely experienced fixed rider who doesn't wear straps. The reasons should be obvious.

Lumen

The sun is shining in Dublin today, again, and it's only 18 days until the clocks go forward.

BostonB

The majority of the "fixies" I see are actually not fixed but single speeds, and no clips/straps. Not that it matters.

doozerie

Harrybelafonte wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong and all these guys are really experienced, but am yet to come across a genuinely experienced fixed rider who doesn't wear straps. The reasons should be obvious.

I think it's a case of personal preference to some extent, and possibly fear of being "locked in" too. Personally, I wouldn't choose to ride fixed gear without being attached to the pedals, but this might be a reflection of my limited ability to control or throw the bike around rather than anything else - for example, I've always relied on being attached to pedals via straps/clipless for bunny hops, etc., whereas there are lots of people who can do genuinely challenging things on bikes with nothing more than bear trap pedals.

Also, and again a personal thing, but I prefer clipless for fixed gear as it provides the benefits of being solidly attached to the pedals but without the need to reach down to undo straps in the event of an emergency. Finding your foot trapped by a twisted or tight strap on a fixed gear would not be fun.

lukester

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong and all these guys are really experienced, but am yet to come across a genuinely experienced fixed rider who doesn't wear straps. The reasons should be obvious.

Enlighten me as to the obvious reasons. I ride fixed sans straps or clips (I have double sided clipless on the bike but have ditched my SPD shoes and don't want to wear road shoes on it.)

If you can ride at a high cadence, I don't see how straps or clips are necessary.

Harrybelafonte

BostonB wrote: »

The majority of the "fixies" I see are actually not fixed but single speeds, and no clips/straps. Not that it matters.

Well, in that case it doesn't matter, you're not using your pedals to brake.

doozerie wrote: »

I think it's a case of personal preference to some extent, and possibly fear of being "locked in" too. Personally, I wouldn't choose to ride fixed gear without being attached to the pedals, but this might be a reflection of my limited ability to control or throw the bike around rather than anything else - for example, I've always relied on being attached to pedals via straps/clipless for bunny hops, etc., whereas there are lots of people who can do genuinely challenging things on bikes with nothing more than bear trap pedals.

Also, and again a personal thing, but I prefer clipless for fixed gear as it provides the benefits of being solidly attached to the pedals but without the need to reach down to undo straps in the event of an emergency. Finding your foot trapped by a twisted or tight strap on a fixed gear would not be fun.

I'll change my mind about clips/straps if someone like blorg comes along and makes an argument for fixed without them, but otherwise I just think it's a bad move.

Re summer, I am preparing myself for sitting at lights while 15-20 people overtake me and then do that shuffle every set of lights for the next 10 miles.

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

The sun is shining in Dublin today, again, and it's only 18 days until the clocks go forward.

True, plus,

....this day next week is a bank holiday and by then days will just about be longer than nights.

lukester

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I'll change my mind about clips/straps if someone like blorg comes along and makes an argument for fixed without them, but otherwise I just think it's a bad move.

Why? Still don't see what your point is.

dearg lady

In fairness, rude/stupid people are the problem. I see crazy actions from all types of road users. I'm a cyclist/pedestrian/driver and i TRY to be at all times considerate of other road users, but I know I'm not perfect (yet )

Harrybelafonte

lukester wrote: »

Enlighten me as to the obvious reasons. I ride fixed sans straps or clips (I have double sided clipless on the bike but have ditched my SPD shoes and don't want to wear road shoes on it.)

If you can ride at a high cadence, I don't see how straps or clips are necessary.

Braking? I'm basing this on Sheldon and threads on LFGSS, so if I can be shown that I'm way off the mark then go for it and I will retract my statement.

Chips Lovell

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Braking?

That's what brakes are for.

Raam

It's threads like this that make me glad I commute on the coast track. It's mostly fine. Mind you, the roller bladers have started coming back out. To the left, to the right, to the left, ipod in, volume up, arms everywhere

dave.obrien

I was in the car with my sister the other day, and a cyclist in front of us does the hand indication that I've only seen on group rides to indicate an obstruction on the road that he has to move out for (you know the one, the old fold the left hand behind your back type of thing), then he indicates out as standard, and she says to me "what's this guy at, is he waving us on or what?". This has no relevance, I just thought it was funny.

But my sentiments are that bad(as in ignorant, not incapable) drivers probably make bad cyclists, and probably bad pedestrians too. I reckon it's a fairly small portion of overall users, but they do attract a lot of attention to themselves!

lukester

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Braking? I'm basing this on Sheldon and threads on LFGSS, so if I can be shown that I'm way off the mark then go for it and I will retract my statement.

What tonto said.

There are some fixed riders who who no doubt have the skill and situational awareness to be able to ride without a brake, and kudos to them, but there are far too many lemmings trying to ride brakeless without the requisite ability to stop safely.

Rear brakes are much less effective than front brakes. Rear braking on a fixed even less effective still.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

Mind you, the roller bladers have started coming back out. To the left, to the right, to the left, ipod in, volume up, arms everywhere

Nietzchean, your thread has arrived.

Harrybelafonte

lukester wrote: »

What tonto said.

There are some fixed riders who who no doubt have the skill and situational awareness to be able to ride without a brake, and kudos to them, but there are far too many lemmings trying to ride brakeless without the requisite ability to stop safely.

Rear brakes are much less effective than front brakes. Rear braking on a fixed even less effective still.

I haven't seen many people really riding brakeless in fairness, but was always led to believe as stated previously that not being locked in meant a lesser ability to control speed, and more importantly emergency brake, whether possessing a front brake or not. Also understood that again, not being locked in left you open to pedal slip considering the weight put on pedals due to the nature of riding fixed gear.

redmaxi

I always thought that if you couldn't provide enough braking power with your legs on a steep decline at least if you're not clipped in you could lift off the legs, Safer ????
On 'cyclist being the problem' -I saw 3 a breast riding along the lower Glanmire Rd. the other day. The amount of cyclist' going through red lights and with no lights at night is frightening, literally.
It's the Guards fault. They should enforce the law on cyclists, they're only interested in harassing motorists for speeding fines on dual carrage ways to raise revenue,easy. They have no interest in catching real criminals either and anyway are afraid of most of them. When they do act on information that they appealed to the public for and catch 'em they'll probably mess up somewhere along the line and they get off on a technicality. But sure who cares we are our own bosses and answer to no one, back to the station for a few cans of confiscated beer, a few packets of biscuits each, a game of pool and a snooze.
Ah, that felt good. I think I'll say as much to the next one I come across on the bike !

Nietzschean

Raam wrote: »

It's threads like this that make me glad I commute on the coast track. It's mostly fine. Mind you, the roller bladers have started coming back out. To the left, to the right, to the left, ipod in, volume up, arms everywhere

Good call, must head out there for some cross training one of these days, get out me summer/training blades.... Arm waving and all

Lumen wrote:

Nietzchean, your thread has arrived.

My thoughts exactly.

lukester

Nietzschean wrote: »

Good call, must head out there for some cross training one of these days, get out me summer/training blades.... Arm waving and all

So do you usually rock Irreplaceable or All the single ladies?

CramCycle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

One more thing, I know the world and her mother have gone fixed and nobody dare criticise, but I see one more pleb on a fixed gear with no straps/clips I'll **********

I've been cycling round Dublin for years, there are plenty of plebs on every type of bicycle.

Maybe I'm wrong and all these guys are really experienced, but am yet to come across a genuinely experienced fixed rider who doesn't wear straps. The reasons should be obvious.

I ride my fixie without straps and it's fine, I have been doing so for 6 years now, I only use it for the work commute though. And I have breaks.

Is 6 years enough experience?

That said I'm experienced in that I know my limits, what I can and can't do, on my bike. I am in no way 'skilled' or whatever, can't do fancy tricks, I can just get from A to B (and where necessary C) safely.

Your point might be valid if that is their only method of braking but IMO it shouldn't be unless your on a track, experienced or not. It is the law right? that you have a front brake for a fixie (at the very least)?

Also, I see the benefits, I'm not disputing that. I can see alot of newbies getting muddled taking off from lights with them and focusing on them instead of the road due to this inexperience

blorg

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Well, in that case it doesn't matter, you're not using your pedals to brake.

I'll change my mind about clips/straps if someone like blorg comes along and makes an argument for fixed without them, but otherwise I just think it's a bad move.

If you have any sense riding fixed you are not using your pedals to brake anyway, as Tonto says that is what brakes are for. A single front brake is sufficient and far more effective at emergency stopping than using your feet.

I have used flats and double sided SPDs on a fixed gear so that I could ride it in normal shoes, it is certainly an option and does not equal certain death. I certainly prefer riding it clipped in but I would not be berating other cyclists for chosing otherwise. Riding brakeless is stupid whether clipped in or not.

Do you even ride fixed yourself? Complaining about other cyclists choice of pedal system sort of undermines your primary argument... :pac:

On that, sure, other people are ****. News at 11.

Harrybelafonte

blorg wrote: »

If you have any sense riding fixed you are not using your pedals to brake anyway, as Tonto says that is what brakes are for. A single front brake is sufficient and far more effective at emergency stopping than using your feet.

I have used flats and double sided SPDs on a fixed gear so that I could ride it in normal shoes, it is certainly an option and does not equal certain death. I certainly prefer riding it clipped in but I would not be berating other cyclists for chosing otherwise. Riding brakeless is stupid whether clipped in or not..

Ok, I'm wrong then. So we can agree Sheldon is wrong too then?

blorg wrote: »

Do you even ride fixed yourself? Complaining about other cyclists choice of pedal system sort of undermines your primary argument... :pac:

On that, sure, other people are ****. News at 11.

This forum is filled with people berating others for plenty of things they've never done themselves. I had references for my opinion and had researched it. I didn't just pluck it out of the blue. Fair enough I'm wrong about it, but just cos I haven't moved to fixed yet doesn't mean I can't try and put together an opinion on facets of it?

I don't often come on here giving out about motorists, peds etc, as I've said I'm trying to put some perspective on it.

blorg

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Ok, I'm wrong then. So we can agree Sheldon is wrong too then?

Sheldon is not wrong, he is right that it is easier to ride fixed securely retained, particularly if putting in some welly. And I certainly prefer it myself. But that is not to say that pootling around town on flats is irresponsibly dangerous.

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

This forum is filled with people berating others for plenty of things they've never done themselves. I had references for my opinion and had researched it. I didn't just pluck it out of the blue. Fair enough I'm wrong about it, but just cos I haven't moved to fixed yet doesn't mean I can't try and put together an opinion on facets of it?

People give out about others doing things that are irresponsible or put them in danger... Unlit cyclists salmoning towards them or the sort of behaviour detailed in the first part of your post. But your "I see one more pleb on a fixed gear with no straps/clips I'll" displays a bizarre level of annoyance with something as innocent as another cyclist's pedal choice.

BTW I only responded as you mentioned me in your post :pac:

Lumen

redmaxi wrote: »

I always thought that if you couldn't provide enough braking power with your legs on a steep decline at least if you're not clipped in you could lift off the legs, Safer ????

That's a little like saying "if I was to jump into the lion enclosure and couldn't climb out again, would it be safer to stand very still or climb up a tree?". Why would you deliberately choose to put yourself in that position?

I've participated in some hazardous activities myself and generally wouldn't be quick to criticise someone for how they get their kicks, but you would be hard pressed to find a skydiver who didn't pack a reserve on the basis that they preferred the elegant simplicity/zenness of a single parachute (and base jumping doesn't count since there would be no time to use a reserve even if you had one).

Harrybelafonte

blorg wrote: »

Sheldon is not wrong, he is right that it is easier to ride fixed securely retained, particularly if putting in some welly. And I certainly prefer it myself. But that is not to say that pootling around town on flats is irresponsibly dangerous.

People give out about others doing things that are irresponsible or put them in danger... Unlit cyclists salmoning towards them or the sort of behaviour detailed in the first part of your post. But your "I see one more pleb on a fixed gear with no straps/clips I'll" displays a bizarre level of annoyance with something as innocent as another cyclist's pedal choice.

BTW I only responded as you mentioned me in your post :pac:

Ok fair enough. Until this point though I didn't see it as "something as innocent as another cyclist's pedal choice", I saw it as a safety issue. Obviously I saw it wrong, embarassingly so. I knew I'd regret using the term "pleb".

I only mentioned you cos I love the way you get to the point, and have always admired your style. Plus your username only has five letters, so it's the only one I can remember.

CramCycle

What about base jumping on a fixie?:rolleyes:

I can see the benefits of being clipped in on a regular parachute jump, but is there a huge benefit when on a fixie?:D

Raam

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I only mentioned you cos I love the way you get to the point, and have always admired your style.

Man crush alert!

Jip

Anybody see all the fixie dudes (or they may have single speed) playing cycle polo on the Polo Grounds in the Phoenix Park Sunday morning, that may have
made your head explode Harry !

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Re summer, I am preparing myself for sitting at lights while 15-20 people overtake me and then do that shuffle every set of lights for the next 10 miles.

I feel your pain, along the canal it's been relatively pain free in that department recently but there were a high proportion of light jumpers out this morning.

Harrybelafonte

Jip wrote: »

Anybody see all the fixie dudes (or they may have single speed) playing cycle polo on the Polo Grounds in the Phoenix Park Sunday morning, that ,may have made your head explode Harry !

They'd be the guys off Dublinfgss.com I'd say. AFAIK bike polo was always played on fixed gear bikes.

Lumen

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

They'd be the guys off Dublinfgss.com I'd say. AFAIK bike polo was always played on fixed gear bikes.

Bike polo is a a gateway sport to unicycling.

blorg

Jip wrote: »

Anybody see all the fixie dudes (or they may have single speed) playing cycle polo on the Polo Grounds in the Phoenix Park Sunday morning, that may have made your head explode Harry !

They use fixed gears. The sport was invented in Ireland and has a long history; there was an exhibition match between Ireland and Germany in the 1908 Olympics.

Nietzschean

lukester wrote: »

So do you usually rock Irreplaceable or All the single ladies?

I hate to say i actually had to google Irreplaceable.... though there does tend to be a decent number of single ladies out roller blading during the summer. Gender balance is skewed the right direction compared to cycling...

Harrybelafonte

Nietzschean wrote: »

I hate to say i actually had to google Irreplaceable.... though there does tend to be a decent number of single ladies out roller blading during the summer. Gender balance is skewed the right direction compared to cycling...

Well at least lycra shorts are welcomed in both disciplines

lukester

Nietzschean wrote: »

I hate to say i actually had to google Irreplaceable.... though there does tend to be a decent number of single ladies out roller blading during the summer. Gender balance is skewed the right direction compared to cycling...

I had to Google 'you must not know 'bout me' to get the song title.

On the gender balance thing, so it's the bewheeled equivalent of yoga? Sweet.

blorg

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Ok fair enough. Until this point though I didn't see it as "something as innocent as another cyclist's pedal choice", I saw it as a safety issue.

You should have gone with "no brakes", now that is a safety issue.

Jip

blorg wrote: »

They use fixed gears.

I always qualify any comment I make about fixies with (may have been single speed) as I never bother hanging around to see if people free wheel to make the distinction.

Looked like a bit of a laugh though.

Harrybelafonte

blorg wrote: »

You should have gone with "no brakes", now that is a safety issue.

I for some reason have always put the two in the same group, but have only seen one or two people brakeless so it didn't send me into one of my apoplectic rages. Every so often I saw someone put up a photo of their "whip" on LFGSS they'd get a red ear for riding without staps etc. There's a thread there with details of pedal set up and only 2 people were strapless etc. Add that to the Sheldon reference and I became convinced it was a safety issue akin to brakelessness. They make comments about riding strapless while fixed pointless. Anyway, at least it was sorted before I started riding fixed in the summer.

Nietzschean

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Well at least lycra shorts are welcomed in both disciplines

yeah unfortunately my lycra would all have chamois...which would look a tad odd rollerblading....

Lumen

Nietzschean wrote: »

yeah unfortunately my lycra would all have chamois...which would look a tad odd rollerblading....

Get some tri shorts and a man bra. You'll look fabulous.

redmaxi

Lumen wrote: »

That's a little like saying "if I was to jump into the lion enclosure and couldn't climb out again, would it be safer to stand very still or climb up a tree?". Why would you deliberately choose to put yourself in that position?

I've participated in some hazardous activities myself and generally wouldn't be quick to criticise someone for how they get their kicks, but you would be hard pressed to find a skydiver who didn't pack a reserve on the basis that they preferred the elegant simplicity/zenness of a single parachute (and base jumping doesn't count since there would be no time to use a reserve even if you had one).

Ok, fair enough I don't know what all that is about meister Eckhart but anyway, obviously being clipped in is an advantage when putting the power down but on braking the pressure is coming up not down. So if you can't hold it back with your legs alone and if you're not clipped in at least you can get your legs up and onto the back tyre to slow you else you go careering down cartoon character like out of control stuck to the pedals.
I've always had a front brake anyway, but cables have been known to snap !

ROK ON

I really detest that way most fixie riders look smelly and dress like homeless people.

Actually that is unfair in that most of the hobo population are better dressed than the fixie crowd.

Harrybelafonte

blorg

redmaxi wrote: »

Ok, fair enough I don't know what all that is about meister Eckhart but anyway, obviously being clipped in is an advantage when putting the power down but on braking the pressure is coming up not down. So if you can't hold it back with your legs alone and if you're not clipped in at least you can get your legs up and onto the back tyre to slow you else you go careering down cartoon character like out of control stuck to the pedals.

I wouldn't ride without a brake but it is substantially easier to skid stop clipped in. This I only did as it is a bit fun and before I put on decent tyres...