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Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    <snip>

    I would love to be able to bring the young lad down to rosslare from Waterford and spend a day at the strand. If the line was given a proper chance with a 22000(there's a heap of them still on order) then an honest decision could be made on its future ,say after 12 months(lets not forget tall ships2011).
    But the railway isn't run to always suit people, a real Irish pheneomenon.
    the replacement trains and those on order wont be arriving until the end of 2011 at the earliest so the tall ships will have to wait.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    the replacement trains and those on order wont be arriving until the end of 2011 at the earliest so the tall ships will have to wait.

    And even at that they're probably already earmarked for Dublin long distance commuter routes. Mind you more services could no doubt be run with the existing 2700 sets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    From my understanding comments were made about the IRRS management not being active in the campaign to keep the line open when as has been pointed out here time and time again - it's not in their remit to do so. So to be fair things did need to be put right. The points were not valid as the were accusing an organisation of not doing something it was never intended to do.



    No evidence to back this up.



    From my reading of their forums there is little to no evidence of any enthusiast type posts, more travel/consumer related issues (as it should be).



    I don't see any evidence to support this. The odd model rail photo or the like yes but hardly evidence of inflitration. And as for enthusiasts trying to control it what do you mean?
    No evidence to back this up.

    So you're say the WRC is not politically driven and does not appeal to enthusiasts? Surely you must be having a laugh. Evidence? Where have you been for the last 7 years?

    From my reading of their forums there is little to no evidence of any enthusiast type posts, more travel/consumer related issues (as it should be).

    Highly technical stuff discussed over there and an in depth knowledge of how the railway works from the lord and master who I know for a fact is a trainspotter. So you're reading it wrong.


    I don't see any evidence to support this. The odd model rail photo or the like yes but hardly evidence of inflitration. And as for enthusiasts trying to control it what do you mean

    Whats with this word "control"? I didn't use it.

    The evidence was presented last night when a supposed local campaign run by ordinary people told the truth in a newspaper article and then ran scared from standing over that statement. The IRRS displayed an astonishing arrogance (the same one we accuse CIE/IE of) in planning a farewell special despite a definitive statement from the NTA and attempts by the campaign to get all the facts on the table. Now that the closure has been deferred the IRRS look like the arrogant bunch that they have portrayed themselves to be. The big let down is that obviously someone within the Wexford campaign has decided that it would be better not to upset the retired CIE managers club. And you try to tell me that enthusiasts have played no part in this.:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Southsider1


    KC61 wrote: »
    They can't claim that there was no train available - a four car 2700 could be formed using the two sets in Rosslare and Waterford.
    There's plenty of carriages lying idle in Waterford. There's always a Loco or two hanging around Limerick Jctn. All they're short of is initiative.:mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    So you're say the WRC is not politically driven and does not appeal to enthusiasts? Surely you must be having a laugh. Evidence? Where have you been for the last 7 years?

    It wasn't set up for the benifit of enthusiasts, at the end of the day it was decided to go ahead with it on social and economic merits. Hence why the section to Sligo wasn't given the go ahead.

    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Highly technical stuff discussed over there and an in depth knowledge of how the railway works from the lord and master who I know for a fact is a trainspotter. So you're reading it wrong.

    Just because there is technical stuff discussed doesn't make it a trainspotter group. There's certainlly no evidence of the 'what 071 worked what' type threads you normally find on enthusiast groups.




    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Whats with this word "control"? I didn't use it.

    You claimed trainspotters were trying to control the local girl heading the campaign.


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    The evidence was presented last night when a supposed local campaign run by ordinary people told the truth in a newspaper article and then ran scared from standing over that statement. The IRRS displayed an astonishing arrogance (the same one we accuse CIE/IE of) in planning a farewell special despite a definitive statement from the NTA and attempts by the campaign to get all the facts on the table. Now that the closure has been deferred the IRRS look like the arrogant bunch that they have portrayed themselves to be. The big let down is that obviously someone within the Wexford campaign has decided that it would be better not to upset the retired CIE managers club. And you try to tell me that enthusiasts have played no part in this.:rolleyes:

    They planned a farewell tour for a line which only just got a last minute reprieve. It's a common enough thing for rail enthusiast groups to do, it doesn't mean they want the line to close. It's not arrogance at all. Similarly, a few months back a tour was run for the farwell to 141 class engines, yet they are still running. Doesn't mean the tour was organised in arrogance either though.
    DWCommuter wrote: »
    The big let down is that obviously someone within the Wexford campaign has decided that it would be better not to upset the retired CIE managers club. And you try to tell me that enthusiasts have played no part in this.:rolleyes:

    Well, I don't see why the IRRS shoud be upset, I mean, they haven't done anything wrong. If some enthusiasts wanted this put right then that's perectly fine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    There's plenty of carriages lying idle in Waterford. There's always a Loco or two hanging around Limerick Jctn. All they're short of is initiative.:mad:

    In fairness the old carriages in Waterford would probably need work done on them to have them 'passed' for traffic. But indeed there's no real reason why the railcars from the Rosslare and Limerick Junction services couldn't be used.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Now after all that old guff how about a real entertaining piece about the closure from http://pipsrailway.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/lets-not-suck-our-own-dicks-gentlemen/.....PS This in not a blog of mine - I wish it were! :D


    Posted in Ireland by Chairman Pip on July 15, 2010

    There is something of a congratulatory piece in the latest issue of Rail News on (you guessed it) Iarnród Éireann. Very much in the same tone as this article from Rail in 2008 (even going so far as to use the same picture of the Chief Executive, Dick Fearn, standing in front of a shiny new 22000 Class DMU). The article goes into all the super things that IÉ have been doing through Transport 21, like the €500m invested in new rolling stock, reopening the first stage of the WRC, restoring commuter lines to Navan and Midleton, with the crowning glory planned to be the Interconnector, the 7km tunnel under the centre of Dublin that will transform the DART and connect most of the suburbs surrounding the city through a high frequency rail service. Makes you think everything is hunky dory right? There’s nothing going on to the network except expansion. We all know that isn’t true, but there’s the merest passing reference to the issue that I’ve been commenting on for some time, the suspension of the Waterford-Rosslare service. Indeed, Mr Fearn only has this to say about it:

    The service costs around €4 million a year to operate but generated only €40,000 from ticket sales. Once, foot passengers were regulars on the ferry to Rosslare; now they fly in on low cost airlines. We have to be realistic.

    Indeed we do have to be realistic. Using just the facts ma’am, there’s very little point in carrying on with that kind of service. But that’s based on the badly timetabled one train per day in each direction, not the kind of service that the campaign to save the route advocates, which could see three or even four trains in each direction, timetabled to meet the genuine needs of commuters in the morning, during the day and in the evening. However, what about the threats that appear for other routes, such as the Limerick-Ballybrophy route or the remainder of the Waterford line to Limerick, or even the Ballina line, all of which have sparse services and are heavily subsidised. Or the great swathes of the country that have railway lines but no passenger service, either because the line is freight only, like the existing like to Navan, or simply because Iarnród Éireann decided they couldn’t be bothered anymore, like the line running through the town of Moate. Never mind the almost complete withdrawl from running freight on Ireland’s railways. Mr Fearn is a railwayman man and boy, and used to work for British Rail, after which he worked for Railtrack, so he’s perfectly well aware of the differences between the railways as a nationalised industry and the railways as a privatised one. Indeed, the reason he went to work for Iarnród Éireann was because it was like British Rail used to be:

    (I wanted to) get (my) arms around a whole railway again, not just part of it

    If you want a trainset, then you go and buy one in a hobby shop. This is a service we’re talking about, and you have to look at the service as a whole. To me it seems that Iarnród Éireann is a nationalised company operating like a private sector one, with one and a half eyes on the balance sheet all the time. While this is right and proper given the amount of public money that is spent on it (the annual budget is in the region of €500m), it is still a public sector concern, and the needs of the public should be addressed. But Iarnród Éireann has no regulator acting as the public’s advocate in the manner of the ORR (if I’m wrong about that, please tell me), no one to stand up to them and say “no, go away and think again”. Nor though does it have shareholders to answer to. It occurs to me that, with the planned removal of one significant route, in spite of the standard message about Waterford-Rosslare

    …various options are being considered for the route from the port, including the possibility of a heritage line

    not to mention the uncertainty hanging over other parts of the network, and the lack of interest in promoting freight, which could be a significant factor in the economic growth of the country, that this kind of self-congratulation on the part of Iarnród Éireann is somewhat distasteful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 170 ✭✭save the rail


    No-one is running scared from the IRRS, comments were made in an article in wexfords local paper but were not intended to offend anyone, the campaign is about SAVING a railway line NOT for personal attacks on groups or individuals. The only people/group to blame are the incompentant shower that are Irish Rail.:cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    the campaign is about SAVING a railway line NOT for personal attacks on groups or individuals. The only people/group to blame are the incompentant shower that are Irish Rail.:cool:

    Quite right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    I laugh at the irrelevant and thank you enthusiast merchants that frequent this dump. See you guys Monday after Ive earned a nice living over the weekend.

    But be assured I look forward to it.:D Transportuser09 is still a source of amusement. DW is checking out for now.*

    *All smart comments will be replied to.;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I laugh at the irrelevant and thank you enthusiast merchants that frequent this dump.

    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I laugh at the irrelevant and thank you enthusiast merchants that frequent this dump.

    I,Captain DW will take on the dark evil force that is the IRRS. I shall smite their malevolent forces and chicken dinners whilst single-handedly saving the railways of the Emerald Isle!

    Underpants : Check.

    Cape : Check.

    :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Now after all that old guff how about a real entertaining piece about the closure from http://pipsrailway.wordpress.com/201...tlemen/.....PS This in not a blog of mine - I wish it were!
    was that blog real? seems to have vanished now lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    was that blog real? seems to have vanished now lol

    When you click on the link,click the "Chairman Pip's Railway Thoughts" Header at the top of the page.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    interesting that it shows dick fearn beside a sligo 22000 even though there are currently 18 services weekly to/from sligo that are using unsuitable commuter railcars
    Dick Fearn, the Chief Executive of Iarnród Éireann - it is distasteful to glorify all the shiny new things, and gloss over the parts that are being withdrawn


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I laugh at the irrelevant and thank you enthusiast merchants that frequent this dump. See you guys Monday after Ive earned a nice living over the weekend.

    But be assured I look forward to it.:D Transportuser09 is still a source of amusement. DW is checking out for now.*

    *All smart comments will be replied to.;)

    Funny enough most of the irrelevant posts on this site aren't of an enthusiast nature.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    interesting that it shows dick fearn beside a sligo 22000 even though there are currently 18 services weekly to/from sligo that are using unsuitable commuter railcars

    It's all about perception and how joe soap see's it. Most people seeing that pic in a newspaper wouldn't have a clue what rolling stock works what route. I'm sure there's many who haven't used a train in years who expect to see an orange train arrive in and are shocked when a shiny plastic railcar arrives.

    Perception is that their taxes are being spent on new trains,they think they're seeing value for money.The marketing bods at IE have it well sussed.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I laugh at the irrelevant and thank you enthusiast merchants that frequent this dump. See you guys Monday after Ive earned a nice living over the weekend.

    But be assured I look forward to it.:D Transportuser09 is still a source of amusement. DW is checking out for now.*

    *All smart comments will be replied to.;)

    See, this is the sort of post that makes me sick and tired of many of the rail discussions here.

    DW is currently on holidays so he won't be back until sometime next week. As a general warning to the rest of you, more trollery, don't care what side of the argument it comes from, will result in bans of minimum 1 month. This is because I take a dim view of trolling and I take a very dim view of mod instructions being ignored.

    Cool it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    The service costs around €4 million a year to operate but generated only €40,000 from ticket sales. Once, foot passengers were regulars on the ferry to Rosslare; now they fly in on low cost airlines. We have to be realistic.

    I'm a bit concerned about Tricky Dicky's grasp of reality here. The line clearly can't cost €4 million a year to run because IE have stated that the loss is €2.5 million per year.

    Therefore, for his comments to be correct, IE must be making €1.5 million of undisclosed income from the line. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I'm a bit concerned about Tricky Dicky's grasp of reality here. The line clearly can't cost €4 million a year to run because IE have stated that the loss is €2.5 million per year.

    Therefore, for his comments to be correct, IE must be making €1.5 million of undisclosed income from the line. :rolleyes:

    Presumably they might be writing down maintenance costs accrued over the last few years against the most recent set of accounts...?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 170 ✭✭save the rail


    Calina wrote: »
    See, this is the sort of post that makes me sick and tired of many of the rail discussions here.

    DW is currently on holidays so he won't be back until sometime next week. As a general warning to the rest of you, more trollery, don't care what side of the argument it comes from, will result in bans of minimum 1 month. This is because I take a dim view of trolling and I take a very dim view of mod instructions being ignored.

    Cool it.


    well said :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    shamwari wrote: »
    Presumably they might be writing down maintenance costs accrued over the last few years against the most recent set of accounts...?

    Counting capital expenditure as current. :eek: All very dodgy but I wouldn't be too surprised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    URGENT

    Tricky Dicky to shut line on Wednesday despite failing to secure NTA permission:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0718/rail.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I think RTÉ have got the wrong end of the stick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    Haddockman wrote: »
    I think RTÉ have got the wrong end of the stick.

    I hope so. It would certainly seem odd given that IE posted notices of deferral up at all stations last week. But I wouldn't put anything past them at this point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Haddockman wrote: »
    I think RTÉ have got the wrong end of the stick.

    Well it would be too much for them to get the facts right, after all 'tis a fierce complicated matter. Nearly as good as the 'paper of record' and its coverage. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    They have taken the story off their front news page.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    Haddockman wrote: »
    They have taken the story off their front news page.

    It's also been removed from Aertel. Fact checking - who needs it? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 170 ✭✭save the rail


    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1491291477554&ref=mf

    video of save the rail campaigners interview


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    UPDATE Waterford to Rosslare rail line services by Corporate Communications
    http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=765

    Waterford-Rosslare service update, 15th July

    As customers will know, Iarnród Éireann has applied to the National Transport Authority to suspend Rosslare-Waterford rail services on 21st July, with an alternative bus service to be provide by Bus Éireann from 22nd July onwards.

    No decision has yet been made by the National Transport Authority in relation to this application.

    Therefore, the existing rail schedule will continue beyond 21st July until further notice. We will advise customers as soon as further information is available.


    Poor old Barry Kenny....he and the 'big dick' will be burning the midnight oil on this one. Wonder if he'll ever get a proper job? :D


This discussion has been closed.
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