Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Ham'nd'egger

dowlingm wrote: »

If passenger service is discontinued, at least some of the track infrastructure has to be preserved to allow Waterford-Belview movements, so at least some running costs such as parts of the signalling must continue. Unless IE wants to kill that business too, of course...

Belview is only a short spin from Waterford so it could easily be operated as a siding for the movements it deals with. For the time being, Waterford West Cabin will remain open as it controls the yard and the line to Limerick.

Judgement Day

shamwari wrote: »

JD, I don't things it's particularly wise to be holding politicians up to ridicule or criticism like this, particularly when they might support the cause of the rail line, AND acutally be in a position to help.

If a politician helps, make it known generally. If a politician doesn't help, then say nothing.

The internet might be a bugger for catching out the lying ways of politicians, but it's also adept at damaging the very cause for which you and others are striving.

Seems you were right poor old Dan can dish it out but doesn't like taking it.

His FULL response to my email below. He didn't even bother to use my name in his reply - busy man though probably thought he was on Twitter!


For a start I don't lie, I still believe everything I said here and I don't
want to see the line close. Your style of campaigning hardly convinces me
though.

My reply:


Dear Senator Boyle,

I'm so sorry that you don't like my style of campaigning but I have long since given up the friendly approach when dealing with politicians.

If you still believe what you said why don't you have a word with Pontius Pilate aka Ciaran Cuffe or Mr.Gormley.

Regards,

Bards

Interesting Article on Kilkenny People http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/Call-to-reopen-Mullinavat-Gowran.6430115.jp

here's some choice extracts

"CIE have not ruled out the possibility of reopening former railway stations at Gowran, Mullinavat and Fiddown following a request from Deputy Phil Hogan."

"These three locations have large catchment areas, are growing rapidly and are on two very important lines with Mullinavat and Gowran on the Dublin-Waterford and Fiddown on the Limerick-Waterford line,” said Deputy Hogan."

"Rather than closing this link, said Cllr Tomas Breathnach (Lab) in raising the matter, the connection should be developed so that it can prosper. It could be a vital link with the ferry port, Waterford IT and beyond."

"Cllrs Pat Dunphy (FG), Anne-Maria Irish (FG) and Cora Long (FF) also voiced their support for the proposal, particularly as Waterford is supposed to be a ‘Gateway’ city connecting to other ‘Hubs’ such as Kilkenny."

Judgement Day

Email #2 from Dan Boyle this evening in FULL!

It all so easy to you David. Both also believe we should mantian railway
lines.

My reply is below plus a copy of Post #706 in this thread which concerned Minister Cuffe's Pontius Pilate effort - the Greens have really hoisted themselves on their own petard this time.

Dear Senator Boyle,

In reference to your claim that your colleague, Ciaran Cuffe, wants the line retained I refer you to the highlighted piece from the Irish Times of 5th July 2010 - as I said the Internet is a bugger for catching out politicians!


Regards,

David

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

It all so easy to you David. Both also believe we should mantian railway lines.

They should both realise that they are in the government then and am in a position to stop the closure. Or maybe the Greens are stupider than I thought.

Partizan

Bards wrote: »

Interesting Article on Kilkenny People http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/Call-to-reopen-Mullinavat-Gowran.6430115.jp

here's some choice extracts

"CIE have not ruled out the possibility of reopening former railway stations at Gowran, Mullinavat and Fiddown following a request from Deputy Phil Hogan."

"These three locations have large catchment areas, are growing rapidly and are on two very important lines with Mullinavat and Gowran on the Dublin-Waterford and Fiddown on the Limerick-Waterford line,” said Deputy Hogan."

"Rather than closing this link, said Cllr Tomas Breathnach (Lab) in raising the matter, the connection should be developed so that it can prosper. It could be a vital link with the ferry port, Waterford IT and beyond."

"Cllrs Pat Dunphy (FG), Anne-Maria Irish (FG) and Cora Long (FF) also voiced their support for the proposal, particularly as Waterford is supposed to be a ‘Gateway’ city connecting to other ‘Hubs’ such as Kilkenny."

Fair play to Phil Hogan for raising another important issue here, that of the status of the South Kilkenny commuter stations. I have long advocated that the likes of Fiddown and Mullinavat stations be reopened. Fiddown also serves nearby Piltown while Mullinavat could also include Kilmacow and other smal towns in the area. I think there is a definite case to reopen Fiddown/Piltown and Mullinavat as commuter stations but not Gowran.

coolperson05

+1 for the reopening of stations. As I have said before the provision of a commuter service is just sitting there. KK and the South KK stations to Waterford as theres alot of commuters going in either direction. Get a good 10euro return offer and it's sure to be used.

Judgement Day

The latest email in FULL from Dan Boyle who clearly is more at home on Twitter.


Where does he say he's in favour closing the line? This happens to be the
factual situation.


My reply:


Dear Senator Boyle,

Neither does it say that he wants the line retained instead he resorted to the time honoured, two-faced trick of all politicians by passing the buck. Hardly laying down a marker is it?

Is there anything that the Greens will take a stand on or is it hold on to your seats at any cost?

Regards,

Hungerford

Another development regarding the line. It seems that South East Chamber of Commerce have conducted a survey which indicates that with proper marketing, more services and connections to Wexford, the income from the line could increase to 62 times its current level! :eek:

They've given up on Tricky Dicky and the boys and have asked the NTA to place the line under the control of a community partnership with IE reduced to running the trains.

http://www.waterford-today.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10347&Itemid=1&ed=977

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

The latest email in FULL from Dan Boyle who clearly is more at home on Twitter.

This might provide you with better ammo:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0330/1224267342575.html

The only note of caution sounded on the day was from new Green Party Minister of State with responsibility for sustainable transport, Ciarán Cuffe, who, while celebrating yesterday’s opening, said he would also be prepared to preside over the closure of some train services if they did not make economic sense.

Speaking largely in the context of the possible closure of the Waterford to Rosslare line, Mr Cuffe said the future of any line would depend on its usage and need.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

This might provide you with better ammo:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0330/1224267342575.html

Thanks for that , the link is winging its way to him as I type - I remember the piece now but didn't think of it before and I'm sure the Senator will be glad to have it for his railwayana collection.

Judgement Day

The latest email from Dan Boyle in FULL.

'Decision isn't his. As a minister for state he can't be seen to interfere.
We are campaigning behind the scenes to reverse the decision. I've stated
several times in The Seanad I believe it to be a wrong decision. Our
Wexford representatives are campaigning very hard against it. How you
approach these things is the difference between being in government or
being in opposition.'

My reply:


Dear Senator Boyle,

My only response to that is that you should urgently consider going into opposition as your continued support for this rotten FF administration is going to do terminal damage to your party not to mention the country!

Regards,

David

PS Here's another link to the Irish Times (covering the opening of the Western Rail Corridor) where your colleague Ciaran Cuffe seems to relish the possibility of closing railway lines too.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0330/1224267342575.html

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

'Decision isn't his. As a minister for state he can't be seen to interfere.
We are campaigning behind the scenes to reverse the decision.

Hang on, so what's Gormley doing with regard to the Poolbeg incinerator? I hope that Boyle and Cuffe will formally seek his removal as party leader for interfering.

Anyway, what's the point of Cuffe being minister for sustainable transport if he can't do anything about sustainable transport policy?

Judgement Day

Maybe Cuffe is a closet anorak and being Minister of State means he gets to travel on the 1st Train - watch out for him at Dunboyne - and who knows he may even be able to get a footplate pass on the Waterford/Rosslare lifting train. :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

The greens are like the dail prostitutes, they will bend for anyone that promises to keep them from being shown the door! Irish people never liked turncoats and the greens will not see power again because of the decisions they are making just to stay in government. They would be respected much more for bringing down the current regime!

save the rail

members of the save the rosslare rail line committee had a meeting in Dublin. they have met with a company who is very interested in taking over the running of the Rosslare Line.

Southsider1

save the rail wrote: »

members of the save the rosslare rail line committee had a meeting in Dublin. they have met with a company who is very interested in taking over the running of the Rosslare Line.

When was this meeting? Who are the company? How do you know this?

Our man in Havana

That information is likely to be top secret for now. You never know who is reading here. Isn't that right eh Dick?

save the rail

Haddockman wrote: »

That information is likely to be top secret for now. You never know who is reading here. Isn't that right eh Dick?

exactly it is top secret for now sorry, too risky to put anything up on this

save the rail

Southsider1 wrote: »

When was this meeting? Who are the company? How do you know this?

check out the facebook page its on that

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367387502018

Hungerford

save the rail wrote: »

members of the save the rosslare rail line committee had a meeting in Dublin. they have met with a company who is very interested in taking over the running of the Rosslare Line.

A very positive development - I had been hearing rumours of private sector interest in the line. Interestingly, some of these rumours surrounded freight services from Rosslare - the one stumbling block seems to be that IE are the port authority and don't want anyone to use the line to Waterford because they would have to keep it open.

[Incidentally, the campaign are right to be cautious in their statements here - I believe CIE staff do lurk on various transport boards]

save the rail

Hungerford wrote: »

A very positive development - I had been hearing rumours of private sector interest in the line. Interestingly, some of these rumours surrounded freight services from Rosslare - the one stumbling block seems to be that IE are the port authority and don't want anyone to use the line to Waterford because they would have to keep it open.

[Incidentally, the campaign are right to be cautious in their statements here - I believe CIE staff do lurk on various transport boards]

IE will have to maintain the line one way or the other for the next 10 years, under EU laws they have to tender out the service and the company interested are willing to co exist with current freight services and also would be looking into running light freight themselves.

Hungerford

Just a couple of points:

* There is no 10-year maintenance requirement. It's a myth put about by CIE to limit local opposition to line closures. The current state of the Foynes and Kingscourt lines - both of which shut less than a decade ago - is testament to this.

* Under Irish law, IE doesn't have to tender out the service. The transfer of the service to Bus Eireann is sufficient to meet the requirements. This process hasn't been challenged in the courts so it could prove an expensive exercise unless IE play ball.

* Interestingly, there may be a mechanism by which IE could obtain funding for the revamp of the entire Limerick Junction - Waterloo line as it interfaces / feeds into a designated TEN-T route [Dublin to Cork]. They are too busy closing lines though instead of seeking European upgrade grants. It has a particularly strong case as Rosslare is a Class 1 port in EU terms.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

A very positive development - I had been hearing rumours of private sector interest in the line. Interestingly, some of these rumours surrounded freight services from Rosslare - the one stumbling block seems to be that IE are the port authority and don't want anyone to use the line to Waterford because they would have to keep it open.

[Incidentally, the campaign are right to be cautious in their statements here - I believe CIE staff do lurk on various transport boards]

I'm certain that Barry Kenny has several usernames on the Boards.

Lenny Lovett

save the rail wrote: »

IE will have to maintain the line one way or the other for the next 10 years, under EU laws they have to tender out the service and the company interested are willing to co exist with current freight services and also would be looking into running light freight themselves.

It'll be a bit awkward given that they re-configured Rosslare and there's no lines into the port now.Another act of vandalism.

save the rail

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

It'll be a bit awkward given that they re-configured Rosslare and there's no lines into the port now.Another act of vandalism.

funny you should mention that, IR and europort were asked who authorised the lifting of the tracks and both refused to answer, the reply from them was "its irrevelant"

save the rail

that should read irrelevant

Hungerford

save the rail wrote: »

funny you should mention that, IR and europort were asked who authorised the lifting of the tracks and both refused to answer, the reply from them was "its irrevelant"

The order came from IE head office. The decision was made on cost grounds.

When the re-signalling project was being designed a number of issues were raised with the existing station area within the Port of Rosslare Harbour. With few cross-channel passengers using the rail service, the need to streamline the flow of road traffic to and from the ferries and the cost of retaining the existing layout resulted in a decision to relocate the station.

At the same time, they also decided to install an irregular and expensive mode of signalling interface between the electronic signalling at Rosslare and the semaphore signalling on the Rosslare-Waterford.

Basically, the computer signalling centre for Rosslare-Dublin at Greystones controls entry to the Rosslare-Waterford line BUT its instructions must be seconded by a signal man in Rosslare Strand before trains can get onto the line.

It's a unique situation which appears to have been designed to maximise running costs on the Rosslare-Waterford line to justify its closure. Normal procedure would be to make Wellington Bridge the interface signalling cabin.

http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20167/167%20Rosslare.htm

save the rail

Hungerford wrote: »

The order came from IE head office. The decision was made on cost grounds.


They are not allowed to lift tracks by law, which is why they refuse to say who authorised it, it wasnt authorised and FRRH and EU have been notified of this, Mr Jameson requested it as it was delaying the RORO traffic, having said that foot passangers are down BUT that is simply because on arrival in Rosslare you are abandoned save for a few busses.



It's a unique situation which appears to have been designed to maximise running costs on the Rosslare-Waterford line to justify its closure.

They are tryin to maximise costs on the line to justify the closure we all know that as does the minister. However if they leave the service for 3 more years they will have the whole line resignalled under EU grants - funny they are not mentioning that

Jim Martin

save the rail wrote: »

check out the facebook page its on that

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367387502018

There's a petition but no mention of Rosslare in it!