Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

save the rail

Jim Martin wrote: »

There's a petition but no mention of Rosslare in it!

if you click the link it brings you straight to the facebook group against the closure

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367387502018#

CIE

save the rail wrote: »

members of the save the rosslare rail line committee had a meeting in Dublin. they have met with a company who is very interested in taking over the running of the Rosslare Line

Who is it, Deutsche Bahn? :mad: They're taking over too many railways outside their borders of late.

howiya

CIE wrote: »

Who is it, Deutsche Bahn? :mad: They're taking over too many railways outside their borders of late.

Surely its better than closing a railway

Hungerford

save the rail wrote: »

They are not allowed to lift tracks by law, which is why they refuse to say who authorised it, it wasnt authorised and FRRH and EU have been notified of this, Mr Jameson requested it as it was delaying the RORO traffic, having said that foot passangers are down BUT that is simply because on arrival in Rosslare you are abandoned save for a few busses.

Are you certain? Railway companies are normally allowed to alter track as they see fit. Then again, it could be deemed to be a route change, which they might have needed a railway order for.

dowlingm

The train line is about 2.5km from Gowran and 3.5 from the racecourse. 1,115 in the 2006 census. Middle of nowhere. Come on Phil.

Mullinavat has 1,500 but at least the station would be near the town and the road over from New Ross.

Jim Martin

save the rail wrote: »

if you click the link it brings you straight to the facebook group against the closure

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367387502018#

Yes, I looked at it - but I could not find any reference to Rosslare in the petition!

Grass between the tracks

why were people on the irrs grim reaper special allowed to trespass on the railway to obtain photographs?

A very poor show from the irrs.

lord lucan

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

why were people on the irrs grim reaper special allowed to trespass on the railway to obtain photographs?

A very poor show from the irrs.

Glad i'm going out tonight. I'll view the carnage on the thread in the morning!:pac:

Judgement Day

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

why were people on the irrs grim reaper special allowed to trespass on the railway to obtain photographs?

A very poor show from the irrs.

The special relationship perhaps?

Transportuser09

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

why were people on the irrs grim reaper special allowed to trespass on the railway to obtain photographs?

A very poor show from the irrs.

Well I doubt you'll get an answer from them here so maybe you're best bet is to write to them (their address is probably on their website) if it concerns you so much.

DWCommuter

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Well I doubt you'll get an answer from them here so maybe you're best bet is to write to them (their address is probably on their website) if it concerns you so much.

Before you get all dismissive of IRRS detractors and hyper protective over the integrity of enthusiasts, may I point out that in my profession I need Public Liability insurance cover up to €5 million, before I can set foot on railway property. So perhaps you can understand why some people feel a little aggrieved at the carry on of some enthusiasts and CIEs acceptance of it.

Our man in Havana

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

why were people on the irrs grim reaper special allowed to trespass on the railway to obtain photographs?

A very poor show from the irrs.

DWCommuter wrote: »

Before you get all dismissive of IRRS detractors and hyper protective over the integrity of enthusiasts, may I point out that in my profession I need Public Liability insurance cover up to €5 million, before I can set foot on railway property. So perhaps you can understand why some people feel a little aggrieved at the carry on of some enthusiasts and CIEs acceptance of it.

I have been on a few railtours and anyone caught trespassing on the railway was warned and banned from future trips. I can understand how some people are aggrieved by what happened.

Hungerford

Haddockman wrote: »

I have been on a few railtours and anyone caught trespassing on the railway was warned and banned from future trips. I can understand how some people are aggrieved by what happened.

They must get a lot of new members between railtours then. On my one and only railtour, literally everyone was trespassing and most of the members seemed to have IE hi-vis vests.

Transportuser09

DWCommuter wrote: »

Before you get all dismissive of IRRS detractors and hyper protective over the integrity of enthusiasts, may I point out that in my profession I need Public Liability insurance cover up to €5 million, before I can set foot on railway property. So perhaps you can understand why some people feel a little aggrieved at the carry on of some enthusiasts and CIEs acceptance of it.

I was simply pointing out that such a question is unlkely to recieve a conclusive answer on this site.

dermo88

I can only guess at the reasons behind it. Some members of the general public are not aware of the risks of being around railway equipment. Enthusiasts, and those au fait with railway equipment are, but take chances. Generally speaking, they will weigh up the risks and judge carefully.

There is no black and white on the issue, but here goes. I am making a lot of assumptions.

On the IRRS tour, those on it were well aware that traffic on the route is light. Its not a high speed double track railway, where there is likely to be a train every 10 to 15 minutes, and movements are random and unpredictable. Its not as if its the Dublin to Cork railway line, where I can state that they would not be walking along the tracks for their photo opportunities.

It was common enough on the RPSI tours to Mullingar on Good Friday, but when I was last on that, they went to the old Galway platform, where there was no traffic (1995-7)

My view on it is, rules can be bent but not broken.

I do understand that people subject to public liability insurance are aggrieved at the requirement for €5 Million public liability insurance. The premium for that is probably €100, based on a risk of 500,000/1 with a 1,000% premium added on for profiteering, and general maladministration. Frankly, you've more chances of getting 5 numbers up on the Lottery at Paddy Powers than having an accident on a railway. But, then I am accounting for people with common sense.

Transportuser09

dermo88 wrote: »

There is no black and white on the issue, but here goes. I am making a lot of assumptions.

On the IRRS tour, those on it were well aware that traffic on the route is light. Its not a high speed double track railway, where there is likely to be a train every 10 to 15 minutes, and movements are random and unpredictable. Its not as if its the Dublin to Cork railway line, where I can state that they would not be walking along the tracks for their photo opportunities.

Exactly, the risk is migated considerably on a lightly used line such as the South Wexford route.

Our man in Havana

But does that make it ok?

Transportuser09

Haddockman wrote: »

But does that make it ok?

Well, as dermo88 says, it's not all black and white. I suppose if it's controlled properly in a location with no other traffic then it's not that bad.

Our man in Havana

If someone got hurt by twisting their ankle on a rail etc it sure would be a different story.

dermo88

"If" just happens to be the longest word in life. Someone twists their ankle, people will help them. They get to a hospital, they get fixed up. If they are on a railtour, they know that "if" they twist their ankle, and are man enough to admit they were doing something they should'nt, then thats the end of the story.

"If" we had to listen to every risk control consultant, politically correct bollocksology, health and safety, mankind would never have flown, broken the sound barrier, made it to the moon and back, or space.

"If", goes up there with "Going forward", as yet another pet hate.

These "IF" people have bled us dry with reports on reports and more reports, feeding an army of Lawyers. I think I preferred it when it was third world. Greed crept in and replaced common sense. If anyone tried suing me for their stupidity, I'd happily break their other injured limb.

tombliboo83

Haddockman wrote: »

But does that make it ok?

Certainly not. If you are not in posession of a track safety cert you have absolutly no business being 'on or near the line'. I regularly see people walking on the line (members of the public) who are oblivious to danger around them. Lightly used or not, being on these lines is illegal as you are tresspassing on railway property.

DWCommuter

Reagrdless of knowledge, the fundamental factor here is the "one rule (bent/broken or not) for one and another one for other people, particularly professionals in various fields. To say that enthusiasts have a certain knowledge does not preclude them from the very basic bye laws that exist. There is a huge amount of evidence to support blatant tresspassing on railway property by enthusiasts on rail tours and even those who aren't.

The annual premium for public liability insurance up to a limit of what is actually €6.5 million (for CIE permission) may not be a huge amount, but add to that the raft of paperwork that one must fill out and submit before access to non public parts of the railway is granted and its very easy to feel pissed off by the carry on of gricers, trainspotters, enthusiasts or whatever you want to call them.

I've seen a lot of photos, witnessed it in person and even been accused of singling out a particular enthusiast for the sake of causing trouble and embarassment. However the point I make now is that my real gripe with it is nothing to do with a personal agenda against the trainspotting fraternity. Its is based on a very genuine annoyance with the selective treatment dished out by CIE that makes my job harder on certain ocassions while hobby heads seem to do as they please.

Is this so hard to understand?

Propellerhead

tombliboo83 wrote: »

Certainly not. If you are not in posession of a track safety cert you have absolutly no business being 'on or near the line'. I regularly see people walking on the line (members of the public) who are oblivious to danger around them. Lightly used or not, being on these lines is illegal as you are tresspassing on railway property.

Lightly used is one thing, barely in existence something else again.

Transportuser09

DWCommuter wrote: »

However the point I make now is that my real gripe with it is nothing to do with a personal agenda against the trainspotting fraternity.

Maybe you don't but I think it's pretty obvious to those who frequent this site that the original post about this issue was there more to stir things and make digs at the IRRS ("grimreaper special" - the usual childish carry on, you know yourself) than any genuine concern about safety.

DWCommuter wrote: »

while hobby heads seem to do as they please.

I wouldn't say the 'hobby heads seem to do as they please'. It's not like you see it happening all over the country and at busy stations.


In any case, what amazes me is that people who feel so concerned about various things (not just the IRRS, various non-rail topics spring to mind) will come onto the internet to whine before writing to the party concerned about their worries. I suppose anyone can be a keyboard hero...

shamwari

DWCommuter wrote: »

However the point I make now is that my real gripe.....is based on a very genuine annoyance with the selective treatment dished out by CIE that makes my job harder on certain ocassions

Please explain. How are CIE making life exceptionally difficult for you?

Partizan

DWCommuter wrote: »

Reagrdless of knowledge, the fundamental factor here is the "one rule (bent/broken or not) for one and another one for other people, particularly professionals in various fields. To say that enthusiasts have a certain knowledge does not preclude them from the very basic bye laws that exist. There is a huge amount of evidence to support blatant tresspassing on railway property by enthusiasts on rail tours and even those who aren't.

The annual premium for public liability insurance up to a limit of what is actually €6.5 million (for CIE permission) may not be a huge amount, but add to that the raft of paperwork that one must fill out and submit before access to non public parts of the railway is granted and its very easy to feel pissed off by the carry on of gricers, trainspotters, enthusiasts or whatever you want to call them.

I've seen a lot of photos, witnessed it in person and even been accused of singling out a particular enthusiast for the sake of causing trouble and embarassment. However the point I make now is that my real gripe with it is nothing to do with a personal agenda against the trainspotting fraternity. Its is based on a very genuine annoyance with the selective treatment dished out by CIE that makes my job harder on certain ocassions while hobby heads seem to do as they please.

Is this so hard to understand?

Another reason I just cant stand the chicken eating, sandal wearing freaks.

and they even wear socks inside their sandals. That's a hanging offence in itself.

DWCommuter

shamwari wrote: »

Please explain. How are CIE making life exceptionally difficult for you?

I said that CIE make my job harder on certain ocassions. I didn't say they made my life exceptionally difficult.

So to clarify the matter.

I work in video production. Many years ago I was contracted by Irish Rail to produce a small video ad for a local advertising network. In order to gain access to railway property with a camera, I had to jump through hoops with paperwork.(and that was based on working for them directly) Meanwhile enthusiasts on railtours can clamber all over railway property. Fast forward to the present and if I need access to railway property for corporate work, an even greater level of paperwork and insurance details are required. There is a very poor level of efficiency in dealing with it as well. I understand Irish Rails position, until I see the level of tresspass that takes place on railtours.

foggy_lad

why are these railtour people allowed onto the railway at all? even the off duty irish rail employees have no right or business trespassing on the railway even if they normally work on the railway rather than in a station. the trespassers should be warned and prohibited from taking part in any other tour on any railway in the country!

if i was found wandering on the railway i would get fined or jailed but these cowboys get off free because they are employees or they have a ticket for some railtour?

Eiretrains

This thread has been of great interest with regards with keeping Waterford-Rosslare line in the spotlight, however these recent postings, particularly about aspects of the IRRS tour and their activities are turning attention away from the real important issue with keeping the line open.

(As someone has already stated, the line is extremely lightly used (and infrastructure wise very different to other routes) and with regards to railtours and their photographers, usual 'common sense' applies at such locations.)

I hope in the interest of earlier discussions about the Waterford-Rosslare line, can this thread's topic return to the its named title?

shamwari

DWCommuter wrote: »

I said that CIE make my job harder on certain ocassions. I didn't say they made my life exceptionally difficult.

So to clarify the matter.

I work in video production. Many years ago I was contracted by Irish Rail to produce a small video ad for a local advertising network. In order to gain access to railway property with a camera, I had to jump through hoops with paperwork.(and that was based on working for them directly) Meanwhile enthusiasts on railtours can clamber all over railway property. Fast forward to the present and if I need access to railway property for corporate work, an even greater level of paperwork and insurance details are required. There is a very poor level of efficiency in dealing with it as well. I understand Irish Rails position, until I see the level of tresspass that takes place on railtours.

Thanks for the clarification. Don't take it personally - I deal with the public sector too as a contractor and it is the same for me as well. Everything is in triplicate!

I disagree about the level of trespass. Any tours I've been on have always been properly controlled. I've never seen anyone stray into areas that ordinary PAX are not permitted.