Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Options
1293032343559

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    that was based on working for them directly) Meanwhile enthusiasts on railtours can clamber all over railway property.

    I think that's overexaggerating a bit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    I think that's overexaggerating a bit.

    I don't think it is. The evidence can be found all over the internet via photos and video. Ive also witnessed it personally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    transportuser09 - you "thumbed up" the "back on topic" post but then decided to poke DWC. Can't have your cake and eat it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I think that's overexaggerating a bit.
    No it is not.

    I have personally witnessed people climbing signal posts to get that all important photo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I don't think it is. The evidence can be found all over the internet via photos and video. Ive also witnessed it personally.

    I'm not saying it never happens. But your stated that "enthusiasts on railtours can clamber all over railway property", when I believe this is not the case. Certainly I've witnessed incidents where people where told to get down from signal posts (rightly enough) so it doesn't seem to me that they are allowed to. Indeed, anytime I've travelled with the RPSI they seem particualrly vigilent when it comes to having staff at the end of platforms preventing incursions onto the pw.

    There is a big difference between people doing something and being allowed to do it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    dowlingm wrote: »
    transportuser09 - you "thumbed up" the "back on topic" post but then decided to poke DWC. Can't have your cake and eat it.

    Point taken. I was agreeing with Eiretrains' post in that there does seem to be a small contingent of posters who use threads like these to vent their own bitterness against the IRRS/enthusiasts, which indeed detracts from the main issue at hand. Acknowledging that it is technically off topic in itself, if certain posters are going to put up exaggerated comments to further this acrimony then I don't see why they should go unchallenged. I do see the irony that by doing so I myself not helping the thread on topic but if the few (and lets face it, it's only a few) who put up such posts to begin with didn't do so then we wouldn't have the problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Labour Councillor Joe Ryan continues to make the only political running over the closure of the line - not a peep out of John Browne, Brendan Howlin or Paul Kehoe. The latest from Joe's blog here: http://cllrjoeryan.blogspot.com/2010/07/double-speaking-greens-go-dumb-on-rail.html

    The+railway+doesn%27t+run+here+anymore.jpg

    This pic from the blog of what greets passengers at Rosslare Harbour takes some beating!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Labour Councillor Joe Ryan continues to make the only political running over the closure of the line - not a peep out of John Browne, Brendan Howlin or Paul Kehoe. The latest from Joe's blog here: http://cllrjoeryan.blogspot.com/2010/07/double-speaking-greens-go-dumb-on-rail.html

    The+railway+doesn%27t+run+here+anymore.jpg

    This pic from the blog of what greets passengers at Rosslare Harbour takes some beating!!!
    have these boffoons ever walked to the train platform with 2-3 heavy bags and a few kids thrown in? i'll bet it takes a lot more than ten minutes! there should be a free shuttle bus to the station!


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    have these boffoons ever walked to the train platform with 2-3 heavy bags and a few kids thrown in? i'll bet it takes a lot more than ten minutes! there should be a free shuttle bus to the station!

    Indeed. Only in Ireland would a railway company owning a port move the station to such a far flung position.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Indeed. Only in Ireland would a railway company owning a port move the station to such a far flung position.

    Agreed, and they would like to fling it a damn sight further - Arklow or maybe even Greysones. :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Agreed, and they would like to fling it a damn sight further - Arklow or maybe even Greysones. :rolleyes:
    but they will settle for wexford for a few months!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I have often been getting off a ferry only to see a train leave...Ive even been held at the now-defunct level crossing for a train to leave. What fools are IE management! or more likely, they arent fools and know exactly what they are doing.

    They should be sacked for wantonly destroying the rail service to Rosslaire a National Asset and not theres to do as they please with.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    From the Waterford/Rosslare Facebook campaign:

    Cllr.Joe Ryan makes a very interesting point about CIE/IEs ability to run any railway no matter how much money is given to them - illustrated by the empty carpark at Carrigtwohill Station on the reopened Midleton line.

    http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#!/group.php?gid=367387502018

    39510_1514972509758_1097806500_31526020_8341506_n.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Southsider1


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    have these boffoons ever walked to the train platform with 2-3 heavy bags and a few kids thrown in? i'll bet it takes a lot more than ten minutes! there should be a free shuttle bus to the station!
    And to make matters worse, when you come out of the ferry terminal in Rosslare the arrow sign for the train is pointing in the opposite direction to what it should.:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    From the Waterford/Rosslare Facebook campaign:

    Cllr.Joe Ryan makes a very interesting point about CIE/IEs ability to run any railway no matter how much money is given to them - illustrated by the empty carpark at Carrigtwohill Station on the reopened Midleton line.

    http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#!/group.php?gid=367387502018

    39510_1514972509758_1097806500_31526020_8341506_n.jpg

    From a personal point of view Joe has a touch of politicanitis about him. He has deleted anti IRRS material from the FACEBOOK page (presumedly) and then deleted any questions about why it was deleted. (presumedly) At the same time he slags off Waterford/Wexford based opposition TDs and councillors. All is obviously not fair in love and war in that particular campaign.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    From the Waterford/Rosslare Facebook campaign:

    Cllr.Joe Ryan makes a very interesting point about CIE/IEs ability to run any railway no matter how much money is given to them - illustrated by the empty carpark at Carrigtwohill Station on the reopened Midleton line.

    http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#!/group.php?gid=367387502018

    39510_1514972509758_1097806500_31526020_8341506_n.jpg

    Why is Carrigtwohill an issue ? Was it a station built by developers or am I thinking of Fota retail park ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    parsi wrote: »
    Why is Carrigtwohill an issue ? Was it a station built by developers or am I thinking of Fota retail park ?

    I think the issue is that the much heralded Midleton line is not attracting as many Park n Riders as was anticipated. Personally, I don't believe this is IEs fault. Like the WRC, it merely highlights that Dublin based rail habits cannot and will not be converted to the regions. Dublin is the only city in the country that even comes close to justifying commuter rail services. On inter city routes, Cork, Galway and Belfast are perhaps the only other lines that can juistify rail expenditure.

    You have to be really honest with yourself to build a case for retaining a comprehensive rail service in post motorway Ireland. A fact that Ive learned along the way. Dublin is in fact the only city on the island that has any chance of being entitled to a really developed rail network inclusive of luas and metro.

    Realistically the Waterford - Rosslare route is doomed, unless there is a state acceptance that regional lines should be subsidised and promoted regardless. My support for retention of this route is based on years of inertia from CIE and Government favouritism towards the likes of the WRC.

    But in a broader picture, we must face up to the fact of whether Ireland ( a small country) can afford to maintain the rail system it has and if it can compete.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    Thanks. Agree with your points.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Ireland cannot afford the railways as currently operated by CIE/IE. They are a Cinderella and irrelevant to the majority of the population and as Todd Andrews once said you could put all CIE's rail passengers on a Greyhound Bus.

    I am a firm believer in railways as an environmentally sound, efficient way of moving goods and people, even with the relatively short distances in Ireland but not the way they are currently operated. The Waterford/Rosslare line is like the entire Irish rail system in microcosm, it is not about the traffic that is currently carried it is about the potential traffic that could be carried if properly operated. As it is the motorways and the enormous network of other roads is going to create a massive financial headache in terms of maintenance in the years ahead. Already the local authorities are struggling to maintain the minor roads. We always hear about how Ireland doesn't have a big enough population to support a rail system but where do we get off having a motorway network on an island with two cities and a handful of large towns. :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    parsi wrote: »
    Why is Carrigtwohill an issue ? Was it a station built by developers or am I thinking of Fota retail park ?

    Carrigtwohill West is being funded by the IDA. I don't think they've even started building it yet though,was supposed to be open by xmas this year.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    From a personal point of view Joe has a touch of politicanitis about him. He has deleted anti IRRS material from the FACEBOOK page (presumedly) and then deleted any questions about why it was deleted. (presumedly) At the same time he slags off Waterford/Wexford based opposition TDs and councillors. All is obviously not fair in love and war in that particular campaign.

    Well that makes sense seen as the performance or lack of by other TDs is relavent to the case, where as the anti-IRRS stuff isn't. Joe Ryan is to be commended for his outspokenness on the issue, from what I've seen he is far more a dominant force on the issue than any of his opponents.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Got my submission in at last, not much structure to it but better than nothing - for all the use it will be. :rolleyes:

    Mr. Gerry Murphy,
    CEO,
    National Transport Authority,
    Irish Life Centre,
    Middle Abbey Street,
    Dublin.1.

    29th July, 2010

    Submission concerning the retention of the Rosslare/Waterford rail line

    Background

    When considering the future of the Waterford/Rosslare line it needs to be considered as an integral part of the through route from Rosslare to Limerick Junction and beyond, rather than an isolated branchline as Irish Rail try to portray it. Currently the section of this route between Waterford and Rosslare has what, at best, can be described as a token service operating on it and since the latest timetable came into force on the 29th November, 2009 it has become virtually useless as a transport link. The trains no longer connect with other services at Waterford or Rosslare Strand, and they operate at times that suit IE staff rosters rather than passenger requirements. It is possible to travel from Enniscorthy and Wexford to Waterford but not return the same day or, indeed, any other day – possibly a quite unique situation anywhere in Western Europe but I leave myself open to correction.

    The single, two carriage ‘Commuter’ railcar which services the line arrives in Waterford from Rosslare at 08.20, arguably just in time for workers to reach their places of employment and students their places of education. However, given the remote location of the station this probably involves a mad dash to get in on time. The solitary return working is at the ridiculously early time of 17.20 – at the height of the rush hour and before many people finish work –purely to facilitate IE train crews being able to return to Waterford on the last Bus Eireann service from Rosslare! You couldn’t make it up – it’s like something from the Will Hay “Oh Mr.Porter” movie.

    The morning service from Rosslare arrives at Waterford at 08.20 and passengers from South Wexford stations have to 2 hours and 40 minutes to wait for an onward connection to Kilkenny/Carlow and, ultimately, Dublin; passengers heading west to Limerick Junction and beyond have to endure an incredible 4 hours and 10 minutes wait for their onward connection at 12.30! As anyone who has had the misfortune to spend time in Waterford station will know this is not a pleasant experience. Facilities have dwindled to almost nil. First the “Comeragh Bar” closed, then the buffet was privatized and then closed to be replaced by a museum now also closed. Even the small station newsagents shop is also closed most of the time. The Fastrack parcels office is closed as is the left luggage facility, surprisingly, despite this the number of staff at the station seems to have remained constant over the years.

    The evening service to Rosslare at 17.20 scampers away from Waterford 13 minutes before the arrival of the 15.10 train from Dublin (Heuston) which arrives at 17.33. Despite its eager departure it no longer manages to connect with the Dublin train at Rosslare Strand which it did in an extremely ill advertised manner for decades (a chalk board at the departure gate in Waterford) and thus another connection with Dublin is removed.
    Since the Nov.2009 timetable passengers from Enniscorthy and Wexford are unable to return to their loved ones – ever – and when I wrote to the CEO of IE about this point he was strangely silent! Incidentally, the 06.25 train from Enniscorthy serving Wexford and connecting with the train to Waterford at Rosslare Strand which nominally runs Monday/Friday has been officially replaced by a bus Tuesday/Friday. This follows months of on again off again engineering work on the Dublin/Rosslare line which seems to affect night time empty railcar movements.
    It hardly needs saying that since its introduction, the 06.25 has received zero publicity from IE and consequently very little patronage. The cynic might think that its introduction was purely an IE conspiracy to increase losses on the route and thereby help justify closure.

    Some possible solutions

    A basic minimum service of three to four trains each way daily (incl.Sundays) – with connections – is needed and could be provided at minimum cost mainly by using the existing rolling stock and staff. Apparently the actual running cost is €1.9 million per annum, of which 55% is down to fixed staff costs. A significant service level increase would be offset in full by increased revenue as much of the cost base is fixed. The Sunday service for the whole route – Rosslare/Limerick Junction is essential to cater for the heavy weekend traffic of workers/students returning home after the week away working/studying. All other inter-city routes offer this facility and thus it is hardly surprising that a route not offering Sunday services sees increasing losses.

    Consideration should be given to the running of one through train from Waterford to Dublin via the South Wexford railway and a return working. While it might seem a slower alternative to the route via Kilkenny, especially with the low speed limit (40 mph) currently in place between Waterford and Rosslare Strand, it would open up a whole new market and by my calculation it would be a faster alternative for anybody living in Bray and all points southwards wishing to reach Waterford. In the longer term the 40 mph speed limit needs to be raised through track renewal and automation of level crossings.

    The reinstatement of the short (4km) Rosslare Strand avoiding line which only operated from 1906/11 should also be considered – some estimates put this at €6/7 million based on the cost of the Lavistown direct curve outside Kilkenny. The affect on journey times would be considerable when combined with track improvements on the South Wexford route.

    Some sort of Free bus transfer system (cost to be built into the ticket price) from Waterford station to the Waterford Institute of Technology, the Regional Hospital and City Centre needs to be considered.

    The line needs heavy promotion locally, and abroad as a gateway route from the UK/France to the West and South West of Ireland. The promotion of the South Wexford line as part of a circular tourist route from Dublin – out via Heuston and back via the South Wexford route to Connolly – should also be undertaken but, of course, impossible with the timetable as it presently exists.

    The station at Waterford needs some serious rethinking and the involvement of the private sector. The passenger facilities need to be brought up to the same standard as found in most major terminals (Cork/Limerick/Dublin etc). The marketing and timetabling needs to be taken out of CIE/IE hands and into some local partnership with IE contracted to run the trains and maintain the permanent way. It is not because of the current threat to the line that this action is needed but CIE/IE have operated a 40 year long campaign of deliberate neglect of the route as part of its ‘radial’ railway policy i.e. that all routes must radiate from Dublin and all non-radial routes must be closed.

    In the longer term the ‘Commuter’ railcars need to be replaced by the more comfortable inter-city 22000 class railcars – especially for through services.

    Bus Eireann and Irish Rail tickets should be interchangeable thereby allowing return journeys not now possible due to the lack of suitable services. This already happens in the DART and Luas area where tickets are routinely accepted by Dublin Bus when there is a breakdown service.

    I will close this brief plea for common sense by asking the NTA to thwart CIE’s decades long run-down of this important gateway rail link. I am sorry for the truncated nature of this submission but I have too much going on at the moment to devote the time to preparing a more comprehensive submission.

    sixshooter1.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Well that makes sense seen as the performance or lack of by other TDs is relavent to the case, where as the anti-IRRS stuff isn't. Joe Ryan is to be commended for his outspokenness on the issue, from what I've seen he is far more a dominant force on the issue than any of his opponents.

    The making fun of politicians that have nothing to do with the constituency or transport brief makes no sense. The IRRS issue of running a farewell special before permission to cease services on the line is granted is a valid issue to comment on, but this campaign rowed back on its media coverage and then deleted genuine questions and comments on their facebook page. So from a purely observational perspective, it does look like Joe Ryan can slag off politicians while supporters of the campaign cannot comment on an anti-IRRS (and quite valid) opinion that was expressed by the campaign itself. Very democratic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    The IRRS issue of running a farewell special before permission to cease services on the line is granted....

    Since when did the IRRS label the tour as a fairwell one? I checked their website at that time and found no mention of it being called "farewell".

    And that maybe is why the comments (anti-IRRS?) were supposedly removed from that Facebook page. Again, you can't beat the auld shotgun approach when it comes to matters enthusiast...:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,506 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    The IRRS issue of running a farewell special before permission to cease services on the line is granted is a valid issue to comment on.

    well they were hardly going to be given permission once the line was closed and IE fully intended to go ahead with the closure on the 21st July.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    shamwari wrote: »
    Since when did the IRRS label the tour as a fairwell one? I checked their website at that time and found no mention of it being called "farewell".

    And that maybe is why the comments (anti-IRRS?) were supposedly removed from that Facebook page. Again, you can't beat the auld shotgun approach when it comes to matters enthusiast...:rolleyes:

    Oh come off it will you.:rolleyes: It is well known that the tour was a farewell tour, just like all the others over the last 50 odd years. According to the ITG, IE refused them permission to run a train over the line because the IRRS were marketing theirs as a farewell tour. History is all the evidence I need and its littered with this approach from the IRRS.

    The tour was organised after IE served notice of ceasing services on the line. The level of poor defense for the IRRS along the lines of "they aren't a lobby group", "They do as it says on the tin", "They just record happenings on Irish Railways" - is laughable. They don't even record happenings on Irish Railways in an accurate fashion. Even members of the organisation are unhappy with them. Furthermore for an organisation that doesn't "lobby", it did a great job getting the Facebook campaign to do an about turn, or are you going to tell me that the campaign saw the light and realised the error of its ways after "moles" gave them the wrong advice?

    The shotgun approach is far out weighed by the hand grenade approach adopted by enthusiasts towards criticism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    well they were hardly going to be given permission once the line was closed and IE fully intended to go ahead with the closure on the 21st July.

    Exactly. Which is why the special is referred to as the Grim Reaper or funeral special, because the ultimate decision to close the line had not been made. The IRRS just accepted the IE stance which shows how out of touch they are with the slighly different reality that now pertains.

    Some of the bile filled comments against the IRRS can be written off as bitterness and are unnecessary but this particular issue isn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,506 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Ah, get what you mean now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    It is well known that the tour was a farewell tour

    Did the IRRS market or organise this tour as a FAREWELL one. Yes or no?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    For an organisation that has no official online presence it sure has a lot of defenders.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement