Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

L1011

Don't NIR still have three just about working Class 80s which are about to go too?

They HAVE served in the Republic in CIE colours...



Wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy though. Is it them where the main engine is literally sitting on the floor in a walled off bit of carriage in the power car, or was that the 70s?

Our man in Havana

When was that pic taken?

lord lucan

Haddockman wrote: »

When was that pic taken?

I'd say it was around 1989/90. I think it was operating a relief between Dun Laoghaire and Bray one weekend whilst the OHLE was being repaired/upgraded.

L1011

Their regular services were the Greystones shuttle service and the nascent Maynooth commuter service, think it was from the mid 80s to 1990 IR leased them.

Judgement Day

The 80 class were also used on the Bray/Greystones scuttle for a time when the the C-class push pull set finally gave up the ghost.

save the rail

South East Regional Authority Report to NTA

http://www.sera.ie/media/MaintenanceofRosslareWaterfordLimerickRailCorridor.pdf

SERA Submission


The Regional Authorities in the South-East and the Mid-West, together with their ten constituent local authorities, have made a formal submission to the National Transport Authority (NTA) strenuously opposing the proposal of Irish Rail to cease passenger services on the Rosslare to Waterford railway line. Irish Rail requires the approval of the NTA to terminate the passenger service on the line.
The two Regional Authorities, the city councils of Waterford and Limerick and the eight county councils in the regions have joined together to strongly oppose the closure of the Rosslare-Waterford section of the railway line that links the Rosslare Europort (which is, ironically, owned and operated by Irish Rail) with Waterford, Limerick and onwards to the South-West and the West.
The decision to seek approval to close the line has provoked strong and widespread anger across the South-East and Mid-West regions. With the assistance of international consultants the regional authorities have carried out a detailed analysis of the usage and management of the line and an assessment of its future potential given better promotion, marketing and operation.
A socio-economic and business case for the maintenance and promotion of the line has been prepared and submitted by the Authorities to the NTA in support of the case for rejection of Irish Rail’s application to close the line and for its continued operation. The submission puts forward a number of innovative suggestions and recommendations for keeping the line open and for increasing its appeal and usage for passenger traffic into the future. A key recommendation is the establishment of a Community Rail Partnership, a concept that involves the rail operator partnering with the local authorities and local communities to operate, promote and market the railway and its services. The community rail partnership approach has been successfully adopted for several lightly used rail lines in the UK.
“The regional and local authorities in the South-East and Mid-West strongly oppose any attempt by Irish Rail to close the Rosslare-Waterford line, which is a key element of our regions’ transport infrastructure”, stated Cllr. John Cummins, Cathaoirleach of the South-East Regional Authority. “It is a half-baked, short sighted decision that flies in the face of a range of public policies, such as the National Spatial Strategy which promotes more balanced regional development, ‘Smarter Travel’, which advocates sustainable travel and the National Climate Change Strategy that urges switching from road to rail and from cars to public transport”, Cllr. Cummins said.
It is expected that the NTA will make its decision in September on the Irish Rail application to terminate passenger services on the Rosslare-Waterford line.

Hungerford

My goodness, Tricky Dicky doesn't like freight at all. The report indicates that the following companies want to use the Limerick-Rosslare line for freight:

* Diageo / Guinness
* Bulmers - their brewery is in Clonmel
* Atlantic Industries / Coca-Cola
* Fyffes
* IWT

In addition, Celtic Linen would be interested in teaming up with another company because they can only provide half a trainload at the moment.

So two huge multinationals, a major shipping company, the country's largest fruit distributor, one of its largest brewers and a major Linen firm want to give CIE their business...

But....

These companies have apparently been trying to persuade IE to provide freight services, even offering to guarantee payment for full train loads, but have met with reluctance on the part of the rail company, which may partly be a result of the need for it to guarantee that freight trains will not take second place to passenger trains.

The bolded section indicates that they are willing to ensure that the services operate at a profit!

The later part about guaranteeing, basically relates to the lack of provision of locomotives to current customers. Funnily enough, Tricky has a scrapline full of modern locomotives at Inchicore. I should that Tricky is also refusing to allow for night freight trains for Coillte, which is threatening their services to Waterford

Cookie_Monster

Hungerford wrote: »

My goodness, Tricky Dicky doesn't like freight at all. The report indicates that the following companies want to use the Limerick-Rosslare line for freight:

* Diageo / Guinness
* Bulmers - their brewery is in Clonmel
* Atlantic Industries / Coca-Cola
* Fyffes
* IWT

In addition, Celtic Linen would be interested in teaming up with another company because they can only provide half a trainload at the moment.

So two huge multinationals, a major shipping company, the country's largest fruit distributor, one of its largest brewers and a major Linen firm want to give CIE their business...

But....

The bolded section indicates that they are willing to ensure that the services operate at a profit!

The later part about guaranteeing, basically relates to the lack of provision of locomotives to current customers. Funnily enough, Tricky has a scrapline full of modern locomotives at Inchicore. I should that Tricky is also refusing to allow for night freight trains for Coillte, which is threatening their services to Waterford

that is sickening :mad:

Hungerford

The SERA report is very good - it takes a while to get going though. But it points out a number of things:

* Either through stupidity or design, the current service basically goes the wrong way - there are far more people commuting between Waterford to Wexford than vice-versa.

* The population stats used by IE to support closure exclude anyone aged under 15 and not in full-time employment.

* If a proper service were introduced, the consultants reckon that passengers per year would rise to around 200,000, which would be more than the WRC. They reckon that if the line was removed from IE's hands, it could increase further to almost 300,000.

There are also some great lines in it about the current impossibility of conducting a return trip between Wexford and Waterford and the fact that IE's service is so limited that it's impossible to accurately model passenger demand for the line.

dowlingm

MYOB - my theory was that the 80s (mid 1970s) have probably been flogged to death whereas there might be some chance of squeezing a bit more out of the 450s (mid 80s) - albeit that their last midlife update was with the intent of getting them to the 4000 rollout. I mentioned it because I read that the York Road spares had been cleared out for both classes since there is no intent to do major work pending their replacement. They would need CAWS fit, obviously, but hopefully there would be enough in the spares bin to fit them awhile. The requirement would only be until the remainder of the 22Ks arrive.

Our man in Havana

No need for CAWS as there is none between Waterford and Rosslare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Automatic_Warning_System

dowlingm

Not even between Harbour and Europort?

Our man in Havana

Nope. CAWS doesn't work over mini CTC with axle counters.

dowlingm

dowlingm wrote: »

MYOB - my theory was that the 80s (mid 1970s) have probably been flogged to death whereas there might be some chance of squeezing a bit more out of the 450s (mid 80s) - albeit that their last midlife update was with the intent of getting them to the 4000 rollout. I mentioned it because I read that the York Road spares had been cleared out for both classes since there is no intent to do major work pending their replacement. They would need CAWS fit, obviously, but hopefully there would be enough in the spares bin to fit them awhile. The requirement would only be until the remainder of the 22Ks arrive.

Only the bodies of the 450s date from the 1980s. The engine, genset and traction motor equipment were extracted from the 70 Class which dated back to the UTA days in the mid 60s. The underframes were extracted from withdrawn BR Mark 1 stock and regauged.

Cookie_Monster

Karsini wrote: »

Only the bodies of the 450s date from the 1980s. The engine, genset and traction motor equipment were extracted from the 70 Class which dated back to the UTA days in the mid 60s. The underframes were extracted from withdrawn BR Mark 1 stock and regauged.

so they're ancient and **** basically.

Judgement Day

Through Waterford again today and the freight yard is still crammed with MkIII's - wouldn't it be handy for IE if the village idiots torched them some night? Really in any sane country someone would be jailed for this outrageous waste of public money. :mad:

Hungerford

Karsini wrote: »

Only the bodies of the 450s date from the 1980s. The engine, genset and traction motor equipment were extracted from the 70 Class which dated back to the UTA days in the mid 60s. The underframes were extracted from withdrawn BR Mark 1 stock and regauged.

Yep, they are total Frankenstein trains. Indeed, one of the 450s features salvaged parts from a withdrawn 80-class. That said, such hideous creations were not restricted to north of the border - some of Irish Rail's MK3 control cars used DART bogies. :eek:

shamwari

Hungerford wrote: »

some of Irish Rail's MK3 control cars used DART bogies. :eek:

Quite correct! However the Mk3 control cars were an extremely effective piece of engineering, and the set's they led were far superior to anything north of the border at that time (and perhaps now too!) :P.

L1011

Karsini wrote: »

Only the bodies of the 450s date from the 1980s. The engine, genset and traction motor equipment were extracted from the 70 Class which dated back to the UTA days in the mid 60s. The underframes were extracted from withdrawn BR Mark 1 stock and regauged.

Indeed, the 80s are ironically mechanically newer kit - for rather lengthy definitions of "new"!

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

wouldn't it be handy for IE if the village idiots torched them some night?

Park them in Lurgan... or Broombridge to keep the business at home

Hungerford

shamwari wrote: »

Quite correct! However the Mk3 control cars were an extremely effective piece of engineering, and the set's they led were far superior to anything north of the border at that time (and perhaps now too!) :P.

Indeed - it's a shame that IE never remedied any of the mechanical issues that prevented 90mph running such as generator power and the use of DART bogies on a couple of the control cars.

foggy_lad

Hungerford wrote: »

The SERA report is very good - it takes a while to get going though. But it points out a number of things:

* Either through stupidity or design, the current service basically goes the wrong way - there are far more people commuting between Waterford to Wexford than vice-versa.

* The population stats used by IE to support closure exclude anyone aged under 15 and not in full-time employment.

* If a proper service were introduced, the consultants reckon that passengers per year would rise to around 200,000, which would be more than the WRC. They reckon that if the line was removed from IE's hands, it could increase further to almost 300,000.

There are also some great lines in it about the current impossibility of conducting a return trip between Wexford and Waterford and the fact that IE's service is so limited that it's impossible to accurately model passenger demand for the line.

so irish rail are excluding a large portion of the statistics for which they recieve massive amounts of taxpayers money to include?

shamwari

Hungerford wrote: »

Indeed - it's a shame that IE never remedied any of the mechanical issues that prevented 90mph running such as generator power and the use of DART bogies on a couple of the control cars.

IIRC, IE upgraded the bogies on the control cars when they were transferred to intercity from suburban duties, but again they never saw service above 70mph. In the end, a series of probably repairable generator failures was what led to a few of their withdrawls, which was a pity.

Hungerford

foggy_lad wrote: »

so irish rail are excluding a large portion of the statistics for which they recieve massive amounts of taxpayers money to include?

To put it more accurately, they selected the set of official statistics which would best support the case for closure and didn't tell the NTA about their limitations.

Incidentally, Fearn & Co only got around to submitting a business case for closure in July - two months after issuing the closure notice.

Even stranger, they seen convinced that they can just pocket all the money they get at the moment for running the line, including capital grants relating to rail safety. Tricky Dicky reckons he can book a profit of €20 million on shutting the line. I have a horrible suspicion that the EU might have something to say about that though, especially as they fund some of the grants being received.

monument

Bit of an interesting / strange article in the Munster Express...

Light rail system for city proposed
By Dermot Keyes. Published on Friday, August 6th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
A light rail system for Waterford city, which would see the Red Iron Railway Bridge restored to its former glory, has been envisaged as part of a plan to save the Waterford-Rosslare railway line.

This potential three-phase development could also pave the way for the rejuvenation of the Tramore-New Ross line via Waterford through a restored interconnecting route.

In a document obtained by The Munster Express, a British-based operator (which is opting for anonymity at this time) has outlined its ambitions for a line which Iarnród Éireann has applied to withdraw its existing service from

FULL ARTICLE HERE: http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/light-rail-system-for-city-proposed/

Judgement Day

One is tempted to say it's the silly season and paper never refused ink! How many of these harebrained schemes have there been down the years? Sure years ago there was some Englishman had a great scheme - taken seriously by many - to reopen the Youghal line using Bord na Mona equipment until somebody explained to him that it was a different gauge! While another wanted to have 800 taken out of Cultra for a similar Youghal based project. I hope that I'm wrong but these sort of proposals just muddy the water too much for my liking.

goingnowhere

Could only be http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/ ?

L1011

"This potential three-phase development could also pave the way for the rejuvenation of the Tramore-New Ross line via Waterford through a restored interconnecting route."

Restored interconnecting route? The Tramore-Waterford railway deadended, there never was an interconnecting route!

The Parry units could never hold enough charge to get from Waterford to Rosslare.

corktina

MYOB wrote: »

"This potential three-phase development could also pave the way for the rejuvenation of the Tramore-New Ross line via Waterford through a restored interconnecting route."

Restored interconnecting route? The Tramore-Waterford railway deadended, there never was an interconnecting route!

The Parry units could never hold enough charge to get from Waterford to Rosslare.

quite right, a little matter of a city and a quite large river in the way

Southsider1

Judgement Day wrote: »

Through Waterford again today and the freight yard is still crammed with MkIII's - wouldn't it be handy for IE if the village idiots torched them some night? Really in any sane country someone would be jailed for this outrageous waste of public money. :mad:

I was up at the Point Village in Dublin today and if you look out from the nice new Gibson Hotel, you can see dozens of them in the sidings behind there too. Left to rot? Shame, they look in good nick - externally anyway.