Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

lord lucan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Loitering (with intent) in the station, IR were right to try and give them the boot :pac::pac::pac:

Cue Barry Kenny with a statement,"they presented a safety hazard in the event of an emergency"!:pac:

save the rail

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Loitering (with intent) in the station, IR were right to try and give them the boot :pac::pac::pac:

They tried to kick them out stating you can only be in there if you are using the train :eek: but one of the people there was using the 5:20pm train to Rosslare

Oliver1985

save the rail wrote: »

They tried to kick them out stating you can only be in there if you are using the train :eek: but one of the people there was using the 5:20pm train to Rosslare

1 person using the train and the rest just jumping on the band wagon for something to do :eek::D

save the rail

Oliver1985 wrote: »

1 person using the train and the rest just jumping on the band wagon for something to do :eek::D

No the politicians were asked to attend and show support of the retention of the line, NO JUMPING ON BANDWAGONS :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

save the rail wrote: »

NO JUMPING ON BANDWAGONS :rolleyes:

none left, IE phased them out years ago :pac::pac::pac:

Hungerford

*falls off seat*

Madam Editor is displeased by the possibility of closure:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0902/1224278050896.html

The first para:

AT A time when the Government is committed to reopening the western rail corridor, a decision by Iarnród Éireann to close the Rosslare/Waterford rail line appears to be perverse. The once-a-day train service in either direction is losing money, but critics maintain that a deliberate reduction in services, a lack of promotion and poor timetabling has brought about that situation.

The conclusion:

Creative thinking will be required if the situation is to be turned around. But it is hard to escape the conclusion that services have been run down in order to justify closure.

:eek:

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

*falls off seat*

Madam Editor is displeased by the possibility of closure:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0902/1224278050896.html

The first para:



The conclusion:



:eek:

I doubt 'Madam' had much to do with this editorial and it looks like something penned by Frank McDonald. That said, it's too little, and far too late.

dowlingm

It'd be nice if one or two of those chained officials had a cheque in their hand to, for instance, lease the south Wexford stations from IE and spruce them up a bit.

Partizan

Letter by former CIE employee Jack O'Neill. Hits the nail square on the head.

Railway closure
WHEN CIE decides to close a line of railway, they spend years running the line down and manufacturing losses on the doomed stretch of railway.
Having spent 47 years working for CIE as a train driver, I was able to see at first hand their method of loss making. They have, over the years, become experts at manufacturing losses; they are really very clever at this exercise and the American writer, Mark Twain, must have had CIE in mind when he wrote: “There are lies, damn lies and statistics.”

The Waterford to Tramore railway is a perfect example of how the gurus of CIE operated. Here is what happened to that well loved railway to Tramore that served the people of Waterford and Tramore for 108 years.
In September 1953, three diesel railcars were allocated to the Tramore section and also two coaches. The total seating of all four vehicles was 252 people; seating on the steam hauled train was 700.
Three steam locomotives worked the line, two working the trains and the third engine was back-up in the event of a failure. It worked like clockwork and I, personally, never remembered a failure except the night of August 13, 1947, when the 11.15 train from Waterford crashed through the retaining wall at Tramore. No one was injured.
The new rail cars were ideal for the winter loading but were completely inadequate for the summer crowds. Buses were laid on to carry the overflow and the cost of the bus hire was charged to the Rail. This showed a loss.
Next, the booking clerk at each end of the line was “redundant” and the guard of the train was expected to issue the tickets, which were changed from cardboard to paper. The overworked guard could not do this extra work, and so, many hundreds travelled free.
Again, a loss. The line struggles on, there were many cancellations of trains due to the pressure placed on the railcars and, there was no back-up.
In the winter of 1959, painters, carpenters and other trades were sent to Tramore to paint and decorate the premises. It was dark at 3.00 in the evenings so a full day could not be worked by the tradesmen. Another loss. And so, on New Year’s Eve, 1959, that redundant turf cutter, Todd Andrews, closed the line. He was able to show losses, for paper never refuses ink.
This Andrews closed nearly 2,000 miles of railway in the Republic. Any idiot could do that.

Since Andrews’ time, a procession of geniuses have been trying to close the Rosslare route and they now claim it is a loss-making line. It has been made so, and I want to make public how this loss was achieved. It began as far back as the 1980s when the station at Rosslare pier was heaved back a half mile, resulting in passengers having to walk to and from the train. The rails on the pier were ripped up and only buses had direct access to the ships.
Next, established connections were severed, for the train leaving Rosslare for Limerick was timed to reach Waterford at 20.40, the same time as the train from Dublin, perfect for connections to Carrick, Clonmel, Cahir and Limerick.
On instructions from Dublin, the train from Dublin was held in the goods yard and the train for Limerick departed. No connection was provided. Five minutes could have provided the connection. This ensured that people would choose bus before rail and this is what happened.

The speed was reduced on the Limerick line to the speed of goods trains and long delays were a feature at each stop. When the train finally reached Limerick, all city transport had stopped, so expensive taxis had to be hired and the cost of train travel then became too expensive, so onto the buses.
The present only train to Rosslare now terminates – not at the new station – but a quarter of a mile back from this building. What is being done is criminal and one wonders how Green are the Greens, for rail uses far less fuel and carries more than does road transport. A locomotive hauling 700 tons will use one gallon per mile. A truck on the road, hauling 40 tons, will use a gallon for five to six miles. Which is the greater polluter?

Every country is taking freight (goods) off the roads and putting it on rail to help save the planet from the excess gasses of the heavy road trucks. But not in Ireland, and here we have a hidden agenda.
On the roads a toll must be paid, revenue for the State. Road tax is payable, more revenue. Tax is payable on road fuel, no tax is payable on rail fuel, so… Road transport is responsible for increases in everything we buy, for the taxes outlined above must be passed on to the consumer, you and I.
The Waterford to Rosslare Railway used be a very busy line and was deliberately run down over the years. Have no doubt, this is on instructions from the responsible minister. Future generations will wonder at the stupidity of the various CIE managers that presided at the destruction of a national asset, our rail system.

With typical arrogance, they also had the nerve to interfere with the national language by introducing the word Ród for Road. There is no such word in our ancient tongue as Ród: the name is Bóthar, meaning “the way of the cow”.
There are many “sins” that this management of Irish Rail have committed against the people of Ireland; they should be removed from office and also the government that appointed them. They deserve each other!

From: Jack O’Neill,
47 O’Reilly Road,
Waterford.

Cookie_Monster

Well said that man.

marathont

Why do they want to make profitable lines loss making and close them? If they are profitable, why dont they just run them.

Who gains by closing down a profitable rail line ? Is it not in their interest to have more rail lines, as that is their job.

L1011

CIE is a bussing and property development company with the unfortunately burden of having to operate a railway. They're not a transport firm.

It takes strong management to run a railway line properly, and they don't have that.


Additionally, the deliberate screwing around to make larger paper losses to justify closure has happened time and time again. The former driver above relates the Waterford-Tramore tale, but the exact same happened on the West Cork system - masses of money thrown in to premature maintanence to create a bigger hole in the books.

Waterford-Rosslare has had some CWR, relaid platform surfaces, etc done recently for exactly the same reason.

foggy_lad

but we also have to take stock of changes in the rail requirements in ireland during the last century where the need for freight has just about disappeared and with it so many jobs and i feel this is the main reason for people being critical of change, switching from loco hauled to DMU rolling stock does away with jobs so regardless of how much more comfortable cheaper and nicer the new 22000s are some people will insist the mark3s are so much better just because they required extra staff!

the rosslare--waterford line is so very important to the whole southeast region that it should remain open but people should not expect ticket offices to be open or "porters" to help them with their bags and trunks, it should operate as a minimal service with a few trains each way each day but lose all the frills like ticket offices and machines and toilets etc but have a ticket seller on board. if people dont move into this century they will be left behind with another closed branch line, it is time to be realistic about this line and accept that it is needed but all stations etc will be as basic as possible to reduce costs.

Hungerford

Something that we should all listen to - Morning Ireland's report on the potential closure:

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-0309101sthour26m08smorningireland.mp3

It starts around 12:30 in. The closing comments are interesting - the Save The Rail spokeswoman reveals that Dick Fearn told her that he would welcome a private operator taking over the Rosslare line from Greystones south and the Rosslare - Limerick Jct line.

That narrows the odds on their closure considerably.

Partizan

Just after hearing that NTA have upheld IE's decion to close the line, subject to conditions. The statement was from Cllr John Cummins FG Waterford. SERA and Save Rosslare Rail Group and local politicians have requested a meeting with Minister Noel Dempsey.

thomasj

Any idea what the conditions are?

Is it the line or their services? Any chance of privatisation?

Disappointing news!

Partizan

thomasj wrote: »

Any idea what the conditions are?

Is it the line or their services? Any chance of privatisation?

Disappointing news!

I would reckon that one of the conditions is that the NTA request that IE keep the line open until a private operator is found, i.e. maintenance etc during a specific time period.

IE have suspended services but the line is not closed.

schemingbohemia

details of bus services and other info here
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news.html

Our man in Havana

Where does this leave the railtour on September 11?

Terrible news that the line has been all but closed. NTA has proved itself to be a rubber stamp for Dempsey, Fearn and co.

Lifelike

An absolute disgrace. Hopefully a private operator will take over the railway as it would be a shame for the line to fall into a derelict state.

We need Duetsche Bahn to run Ireland's railways.

purplepanda

So IE still have their grubby hands on the now closed line, letting the infrastructure rot away to deter any future interest by other rail operators.

If IE don't want to run services on this railway it should be taken away from them NOW, they should not be given the chance to further sabotage the potential reuse of the railway.

As for the NTA report no consideration is made of the increased numbers recently using the line, from the bad winter weather & volcano flight disruption onwards.

Seems that the NTA have discounted any analysis or interest from outside railway companies operating future services on the line, & have backed IE's scorched earth policy to deter potential interest as well

parsi

Lifelike wrote: »

We need Duetsche Bahn to run Ireland's railways.

I used to think that as well. But Berliners are into their second year of reduced s-bahn services, lines are closing and the ICEs are overheating and gave dodgy axles so I feel we need to forget about DB solving our problems and find another candidate.

Judgement Day

The NTA have proved where their true loyalties lie and it's not with the travelling public. Shame on them. NTA aNother Todd Andrews

Lifelike

parsi wrote: »

I used to think that as well. But Berliners are into their second year of reduced s-bahn services, lines are closing and the ICEs are overheating and gave dodgy axles so I feel we need to forget about DB solving our problems and find another candidate.

Never knew that DB were closing lines, but the last time I was in Germany I noticed how fast, cheap, punctual and efficient their train service was in comparison to ours. They also electrified many of their railways, something which IÉ wouldn't dream of doing here.

Apart from anything else anyway, you can be sure that DB would have the Dublin-Waterford service connecting with the Rosslare-Waterford services. They would also make sure that the Rosslare-Dublin train would wait for the ferry to arrive, not leave 15 mins before the ferry arrives :mad:

Judgement Day

How about putting up a Save the Rosslare/Waterford Railway candidate in the next election? It can work for hospitals. Tanya????

Lenny Lovett

A good idea Judgement Day but a single issue candidate is no good. County Wexford needs to elect all Independent candidates and they would have the kind of bargaining power that the Healy Rae's in Kerry and Michael Lowry in Tipp enjoy. It would secure the railway and Hospitals, roads etc etc

It's time for tactical voting now!

Transportuser09

Haddockman wrote: »

Where does this leave the railtour on September 11?

I don't think the services are being stopped imediately. The impression I get from the IÉ press release is that the "transition" to BÉ won't happen till later in the month.

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=765

Transportuser09

Partizan wrote: »

I would reckon that one of the conditions is that the NTA request that IE keep the line open until a private operator is found, i.e. maintenance etc during a specific time period.

IE have suspended services but the line is not closed.

As appealing as it might sound I'm still sceptical about the notion of a private operator coming in, despite the apparent interest. Unless they can some way hire a railcar or two from IÉ I can't see how it would work. Regauging a UK unit to work in Ireland would surely be a major obstacle in terms of expense, nor can I see them investing in a brand new unit for a line which is still at best an unproven quantity from a profit point of view. It may come across as being pessimistic but I just can't see it happening.

Our man in Havana

Judical review anyone?

oharach

Transportuser09 wrote: »

As appealing as it might sound I'm still sceptical about the notion of a private operator coming in, despite the apparent interest. Unless they can some way hire a railcar or two from IÉ I can't see how it would work. Regauging a UK unit to work in Ireland would surely be a major obstacle in terms of expense, nor can I see them investing in a brand new unit for a line which is still at best an unproven quantity from a profit point of view. It may come across as being pessimistic but I just can't see it happening.

A major company like Deutsche Bahn could take the financial hit as a loss-leader, then wow us with their service levels and use that to lever more services off IE.