Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Our man in Havana

The NTA conditions are as follows:

Joe Ryan wrote:

Conditions for Irish Rail to comply with in accepting the decision are as follows,
1 An independently audited evaluation of assets to be maintained by IE
2 an enhanced bus service in Sth Wexford
3 an integrated transport service for south Wexford
4 NTA support for SERA in their development of transport in SE
5 NTA support for any rail partnership model that may evolve around any new operator that may utilise the line.
6 I spoke with Gerry Murphy this afternoon and he assures me that IE must maintain the line in a condition that would facilitate any new operator who wishes to come n.
7 €250K to support bus transport in the area affected.

rainbowdash

6 I spoke with Gerry Murphy this afternoon and he assures me that IE must maintain the line in a condition that would facilitate any new operator who wishes to come n.


But reading one of the IE documents many of the rails are over 100 years old and life life expired anyway - so investment is needed.

Judgement Day

On top of everything else I note that Mark Gleeson from RUI is now an admin on the Save the Rail Campaign - I've just quit, as with friends like him you don't need Barry Kenny. You can ban me from C&T now too as the battle and the war are lost. Next up close the Limerick Junction/Waterford line? Limerick/Ballybrophy or as that useless ****er Dick Fearn is supposed to have abandoned IE interest in the line south of Greystones.....

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Godge

Haddockman wrote: »

Judical review anyone?

A waste of money and a waste of court time.

oharach wrote: »

A major company like Deutsche Bahn could take the financial hit as a loss-leader, then wow us with their service levels and use that to lever more services off IE.

Fantasy Island as they say on the weather forum. If it was Dublin/Belfast or Dublin/Cork with no conflicting suburban rail, you might have some chance but let's be real. Was it 20 or 25 people who turned up for the photographed protest?

Hungerford

I may disagree with their decision but the NTA's conditions are rather clever.

Basically, IE has to maintain everything: the NTA position is that services are suspended but the line isn't closed.

The document attached to the decision indicates that they will even have to replace sleepers etc.

Also, the NTA has appointed an independent expert to ensure that IE maintain the bridges properly. One of the problems with previous suspensions was that the key bridges mysteriously became impassible overnight. This should stop such nonsense.

shamwari

Hungerford wrote: »

I may disagree with their decision but the NTA's conditions are rather clever.

Basically, IE has to maintain everything: the NTA position is that services are suspended but the line isn't closed.

The document attached to the decision indicates that they will even have to replace sleepers etc.

Also, the NTA has appointed an independent expert to ensure that IE maintain the bridges properly. One of the problems with previous suspensions was that the key bridges mysteriously became impassible overnight. This should stop such nonsense.

These NTA conditions are certainly welcome, but how enforceable are they? I find it hard to believe that they will withdraw service on a line but in effect, have to maintain the line in a serviceable condition.

Hungerford

shamwari wrote: »

These NTA conditions are certainly welcome, but how enforceable are they? I find it hard to believe that they will withdraw service on a line but in effect, have to maintain the line in a serviceable condition.

The documents make it clear that IE will be fined if they don't play ball.

highlydebased

The line will probably be as servicable as Limerick-Foynes or Athlone-Mullingar...when will tricky dicky be out with the grass seed?

Our man in Havana

The Barrow Bridge will become faulty overnight.

purplepanda

I doubt if a private operator would want to take the Rosslare - Waterford line as a new franchise due to it's small size, any serious interest would have to be a much larger contract to generate any potential interest & investment.

Greystones -Rosslare - Limerick Junction & rights to run through services to connect to Dublin, plus future rights to all related closed rail lines might attract some serious interest.

It seems that IE have virtually said that they don't want the lines mentioned above so it's down to the government to act now & take these lines & associated rolling stock out of the hands of IE & pass legislation to enable private operators to enter the market.

The government however is quite happy to insist that the WRC continues & is extended northwards & that IE comply with their demands.

However making the vital strategic decisions required for the future of Ireland's rail network seems beyond them, so they collude with IE's one by one destruction of the remaining lines.

Soon it will be too late & many politicians seem to be unable to grasp exactly what needs to be done to prevent it all happening.

dowlingm

The most interesting part I felt (in terms of stuff we didn't know already) was the discussion of the Passage East ferry. The big disadvantage at present is the distance via the New Ross detour. The PEF won't take buses >14 persons because the locals "don't want it". BE have proposed a 28 seater Dart 4 Enviro 200 and I think the chained officials should start leaning on "the locals" to accept it given that it will provide public transport to Ballyhack and Passage East and perhaps reduce non-PT vehicle traffic in the area.

Transportuser09

purplepanda wrote: »

Greystones -Rosslare - Limerick Junction & rights to run through services to connect to Dublin, plus future rights to all related closed rail lines might attract some serious interest.

It seems that IE have virtually said that they don't want the lines mentioned above

I don't think there's anything to suggest they don't want Greystones-Rosslare, should be safe enough but agree about Limerick Junction-Waterford.

Cookie_Monster

1 An independently audited evaluation of assets to be maintained by IE

thats sounds vague enough to be gotten out of.

Assets to be maintained by IE?? In relation to the line, in general, or what? of course to the general public it means of course in relation to the line, but leaves enough room to get out of for IE IMO

Judgement Day

Transportuser09 wrote: »

I don't think there's anything to suggest they don't want Greystones-Rosslare, should be safe enough but agree about Limerick Junction-Waterford.

You mustn't have heard the RTE Radio .1. 8am news bulletin on Friday so! Tanya Fenlon of the Save the Rail Group stated the Dick Fearn told her that he would happily hand over south of Greystones to a private operator. Truth is Fearn couldn't care less about Ireland's railways or Ireland and he will bugger off back to the UK with a fat wallet when he is finished his stint here. :rolleyes:

steamengine

Hungerford wrote: »

Something that we should all listen to - Morning Ireland's report on the potential closure:

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-0309101sthour26m08smorningireland.mp3

It starts around 12:30 in. The closing comments are interesting - the Save The Rail spokeswoman reveals that Dick Fearn told her that he would welcome a private operator taking over the Rosslare line from Greystones south and the Rosslare - Limerick Jct line.

That narrows the odds on their closure considerably.

You mustn't have heard the RTE Radio .1. 8am news bulletin on Friday so! Tanya Fenlon of the Save the Rail Group stated the Dick Fearn told her that he would happily hand over south of Greystones to a private operator. Truth is Fearn couldn't care less about Ireland's railways or Ireland and he will bugger off back to the UK with a fat wallet when he is finished his stint here.

Interesting revelation - re: South of Greystones - not surprising though in light of the Rosslare/Waterford closure !

foggy_lad

He just wants commuter routes and the more profitable intercity lines that can make him and top management look like they are doing a good job!

Other problematic lines will close because they make him look bad.

dowlingm

If I was head of IE I'd give away Bray-Greystones too - the ongoing expense of Bray Head must be substantial.

westtip

shamwari wrote: »

These NTA conditions are certainly welcome, but how enforceable are they? I find it hard to believe that they will withdraw service on a line but in effect, have to maintain the line in a serviceable condition.

Despite my views on the WRC I do actually find it somewhat mind boggling that an established line into our nearest seaport to continental Europe should be closed/suspended.

If suspension of the lines terms and conditions are binding - I would imagine they are enforceable - My advice to the pressure group wanting to maintain this line is to be vigilant in the detail of the application of these terms and conditions. The group should carry out its own audit of the line, and maintain persistent pressure on how it is being maintained, they should demand to see under FOI all the maintenance schedules, the plans etc in fact every bit of detail about how the line is being maintained.

I don't know what the terms and conditions were on the closure of the WRC, but it was left to fall into disrepair, the only thing maintained was the boundary fence (and not even this has happened north of Claremorris - but don't want to debate that here).

The group that wants the line open should become extremely vigilant and vocal about the maintenance of the line. Using every channel of communication that they can and maintaining public interest and information in the maintenance programme - this will be the only way they have any chance of seeing trains run down the line again.

Re re-opening - the pressure group should look into how a private consortium might run this line. One might even ask a crazy question like is there an opportunity here for a peoples co-operative to run the line....

foggy_lad

Do the conditions placed on the closure of the line not just equate to Irish rails care and maintenance program? Is this not what the nta are referring to?

Hungerford

foggy_lad wrote: »

Do the conditions placed on the closure of the line not just equate to Irish rails care and maintenance program? Is this not what the nta are referring to?

It is but unlike previous care and maintenance exercises, the NTA have made the conditions enforceable. So there will be none of this severing connections and forgetting to weedspray nonsense. The NTA's position is that the line isn't closed and so IE need to maintain it.

As westtip said the local action group down there needs to remain active and, while pursuing the possibility of a private operation, they must keep the channels of communication with the NTA open and report even the slightest deviation from the conditions placed on the closure.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

It is but unlike previous care and maintenance exercises, the NTA have made the conditions enforceable. So there will be none of this severing connections and forgetting to weedspray nonsense. The NTA's position is that the line isn't closed and so IE need to maintain it.

As westtip said the local action group down there needs to remain active and, while pursuing the possibility of a private operation, they must keep the channels of communication with the NTA open and report even the slightest deviation from the conditions placed on the closure.

Sighted on their way to the Barrow Bridge today. :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

Hungerford wrote: »

It is but unlike previous care and maintenance exercises, the NTA have made the conditions enforceable. So there will be none of this severing connections and forgetting to weedspray nonsense. The NTA's position is that the line isn't closed and so IE need to maintain it.

As westtip said the local action group down there needs to remain active and, while pursuing the possibility of a private operation, they must keep the channels of communication with the NTA open and report even the slightest deviation from the conditions placed on the closure.

the trouble with this is that if irish rail say they are maintaining it and produce a report from some consultant like they did over the speed restrictions what are the NTA supposed to do? they are not railway examiners so they will bow to the years of long forgotten(viaduct incident) experience of irish rail. when the borrow bridge falls into the estuary i doubt they will even lift it back out unless it obstructs any local boating or leisure activities.

Our man in Havana

Just look at IE's other care and maintenance projects. Athlone-Mullingar, New Ross-Waterford and Foynes-Limerick. Need I say more.

foggy_lad

here is a full list of what they are supposed to do but i dont see that after a dew years any train could use the line at normal speed without serious repairs

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/asset_management_of_the_bellview-rosslare_strand_line.pdf

most of the track dates back to 1903 and probably some of the sleepers too!

Should line re-instatement be required at a future date, a capital project to replace the track with second-hand CWR will be required.

8.
Bridges
Present
The section in question has 3 major bridges:
UBH140 Barrow Bridge 15 span
UBH171 Taylorstown Viaduct 7 span
UBH193 Duncorrick Viaduct 3 span
The are 3 double span bridges
Of the total of 194 bridges 56 are steel bridges, 12 are masonry bridges and there are 96 culverts. Rail/public road bridges number 30 and rail over water number 31.
UBH140 Barrow Bridge has had major work carried out in the last 10 years
The remaining planned structural repair work over 5 years would have totalled about €600,000.
There is concern about UBH171 which is due a thorough inspection this year.
The other bridges of concern are
UBH162 – corrosion
UBH196, UBH204, UBH210 and UBH216 are all listed for painting in the next 5 years.
Future
All steel bridges that intersect public roads must continue to be inspected in the 2 year cycle and represents a high % of the total so all should continue to be inspected.
The 2 year cycle of bridge inspection will continue most likely using the inspection car and the road rail bridge inspection basket as required with full daylight working hours.
The 4 bridges in the section currently listed for scour inspection are
UBH140 Barrow Bridge 81.1100
UBH147 83.938
UBH180 93.1720
UBH198 101.340
CCE-QMS-AMT-901 Track and Structures Report
6
These will continue to receive inspections as dictated by the Structural Engineer as if the line was operating normally. The list is being monitored by Dr. McKeogh of UCC who may add or subtract bridges in the future.
In summary there will be no change in inspection or maintenance regimes.

9.
Barrow Bridge Operation
Present
The cabin is presently manned 24 hours per day 7 days per week.
The signalmen open and close the bridge when shipping bound to or from New Ross offers and train movements are blocked for this operation. They also switch on the navigation lights and replace bulbs. Shipping movements are monitored by signalmen for shipping strikes on the structure.
The present bridge latching operation is insufficient to permanently lock the bridge in an “open to shipping” mode.
Future
The manning of the bridge could be reduced to match the shifts of the 2 pilotmen from New Ross Harbour Commission who only bring commercial shipping through at high tide. Possible strikes from tall masts of pleasure craft would not be expected to damage the bridge. The SET Department would continue their 4 man day per week maintenance regime. Trains could still cross.
CCTV will be installed on the bridge initiated about 1km up and down stream by commercial vessels and connected to the fibre optic network for monitoring movements and recording strikes in either Athlone or Mallow CCTV crossing control centres.
The signal cabin would have to be secured against vandalism.

malahide viaduct was inspected regularly by irish rail and still fell into the sea so what is going to be different here? they will inspect but when the decision is theirs on whether work is required or not we know the answer will be not! and also the quality of week killer used is also under the control of irish rail so using a cheap alternative could see the line overgrown beyond redemption in a good wet summer!

dowlingm

Malahide Viaduct actually helps here because now IE will have to inspect structures AND record findings using their revised standards and staffing. If Malahide hadn't happened then gangers would still be filling out 1/3 of their sheets and inspectors would be still be "inspecting" things they are unqualified to judge. Still, the record is the record and the Save The Rail folks are going to have their toughest assignment yet - keeping tabs on IE with no expectation of reinstatement in the short/medium term.

Our man in Havana

Unless there are regular rusty rail movements, the line will become unserviceable fairly fast.

Judgement Day

Bet they don't close the line before the IRRS special farewell tour on the 11th September. There, I didn't say anything derogatory about them.

shamwari

foggy_lad wrote: »

the trouble with this is that if irish rail say they are maintaining it and produce a report from some consultant like they did over the speed restrictions what are the NTA supposed to do? they are not railway examiners so they will bow to the years of long forgotten(viaduct incident) experience of irish rail.

There is nothing to stop the NTA commissioning their own consultants to produce an untainted report, especially if they do not have specific expertise on maintaining the permanent way.

Indeed, I think they would be leaving themselves wide open if they accepted IE's word as gospel without examining the situation for themselves.

Transportuser09

Judgement Day wrote: »

You mustn't have heard the RTE Radio .1. 8am news bulletin on Friday so! Tanya Fenlon of the Save the Rail Group stated the Dick Fearn told her that he would happily hand over south of Greystones to a private operator. Truth is Fearn couldn't care less about Ireland's railways or Ireland and he will bugger off back to the UK with a fat wallet when he is finished his stint here. :rolleyes:

I see, I'm both surprised and not-surprised! You'd think given the increase in evening services to the south east (16:30, 17:30 and 18:30 I think) over the last few years there'd be some commuter market on Dublin-Rosslare north of Wexford town at least. Bus Eireann seem to think so. I would have at least thought it was more profitable that Limerick-Ballybrophy or Limerick Junction-Rosslare.

save the rail

Transportuser09 wrote: »

I don't think there's anything to suggest they don't want Greystones-Rosslare, should be safe enough but agree about Limerick Junction-Waterford.

Dick Fearn told campaigners and interested parties they can run from greystones-rosslare n wat line. four witnesses