Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

save the rail

Hungerford wrote: »

It is but unlike previous care and maintenance exercises, the NTA have made the conditions enforceable. So there will be none of this severing connections and forgetting to weedspray nonsense. The NTA's position is that the line isn't closed and so IE need to maintain it.

As westtip said the local action group down there needs to remain active and, while pursuing the possibility of a private operation, they must keep the channels of communication with the NTA open and report even the slightest deviation from the conditions placed on the closure.

The campaigners are going to be working closely with the NTA, they will be keeping a close eye on IR and are working on getting the new operator in as fast as possible

save the rail

The death knell has been sounded for evey line in this country. IR have been rewarded for the running down of rail lines. This is a green light for them to destroy all lines they can't be bothered with. This government harped on and on about being in the EU so what do they go and do?? CUT ACCESS from EU to Ireland!!! Logic this is not!!!

The campaigners will not be stopping now. They will be working with NTA, SERA, Chambers of Commerce ect to get the CPR up and running. IR might have gotten their way with the suspension of services BUT they have to maintain the line, pay redundancies, re-deploy staff ect so they wont be saving a whole lot of money and now they have left themselves wide open to competition for the whole rail line, who's to say whichever company comes in to operate it will settle for just the one line? They may well try to take over the rest and now they have their foot in the door so to speak.........

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/closed-rail-line-could-be-reopened-2324009.html

OurLadyofKnock

save the rail wrote: »

Dick Fearn told campaigners and interested parties they can run from greystones-rosslare n wat line. four witnesses

Which is the same thing as saying the railway line is going to be closed.

rainbowdash

Every cloud has a silver lining supposedly.

I would love to see Irish Rail broken up now and a new company run Galway-Wexford and LK-Ballybrophy centred around Limerick station. Then there would be integrated timetables and proper promotion of the lines.

Only direct intercity trains from Dublin running to Limerick under the Irish Rail flag.

Judgement Day

save the rail wrote: »

The death knell has been sounded for evey line in this country. IR have been rewarded for the running down of rail lines. This is a green light for them to destroy all lines they can't be bothered with. This government harped on and on about being in the EU so what do they go and do?? CUT ACCESS from EU to Ireland!!! Logic this is not!!!

The campaigners will not be stopping now. They will be working with NTA, SERA, Chambers of Commerce ect to get the CPR up and running. IR might have gotten their way with the suspension of services BUT they have to maintain the line, pay redundancies, re-deploy staff ect so they wont be saving a whole lot of money and now they have left themselves wide open to competition for the whole rail line, who's to say whichever company comes in to operate it will settle for just the one line? They may well try to take over the rest and now they have their foot in the door so to speak.........

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/closed-rail-line-could-be-reopened-2324009.html

save the rail

Judgement Day wrote: »

And WHAT exactly have you done Judgement day? SWEET F**K ALL except to criticize those who were working day and night on the campaign.:mad:

Judgement Day

save the rail wrote: »

And WHAT exactly have you done Judgement day? SWEET F**K ALL except to criticize those who were working day and night on the campaign.:mad:

How do you work that out? The only person that I have criticised and not publically is the person who joined the campaign in July (!!!) and is suddenly an Admin in the group. I haven't attempted to build a political profile on the back of the closure.

Incidentally, I started this thread - I am an individual who has spent more time on this issue writing to/emailing and calling to TDs than I should have.

save the rail

Judgement Day wrote: »

How do you work that out? The only person that I have criticised and not publically is the person who joined the campaign in July (!!!) and is suddenly an Admin in the group. I haven't attempted to build a political profile on the back of the closure.

Sarky pic of clutching at straws, the campaigners are not clutching at straws, they have things moving on having another operator running the service and the NTA has agreed to have it too

Who has attempted to build a political profile on the back of the closure?

save the rail

[QUOTE=J

Incidentally, I started this thread - I am an individual who has spent more time on this issue writing to/emailing and calling to TDs than I should have.[/QUOTE]

Anyone can start a conversation / thread

Judgement Day

save the rail wrote: »

Sarky pic of clutching at straws, the campaigners are not clutching at straws, they have things moving on having another operator running the service and the NTA has agreed to have it too

Who has attempted to build a political profile on the back of the closure?

Whats with ?

I believe you are clutching at straws. When it became clear early on in the campaign that the potential alternative government have even less interest in retaining the line than the present shower the game was up. I don't believe any private operator will ever reopen the line - just my opinion.

I don't like people being parachuted into the organisation as admins, especially when they have their own narrow agendas. As for building political profiles - c'mon pull the other one. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

save the rail wrote: »

Anyone can start a conversation / thread

That's not the point I was making - You said I had done nothing but criticise!

lord lucan

In fairness to JD he's put his money where his mouth is. Rather than be a keyboard warrior he's emailed and written to politicians,councillors etc. and gotten the campaign a profile by highlighting it here.

save the rail

lord lucan wrote: »

In fairness to JD he's put his money where his mouth is. Rather than be a keyboard warrior he's emailed and written to politicians,councillors etc. and gotten the campaign a profile by highlighting it here.

ALL FROM A CHAIR, unlike the campaigners, I agree about his letters, he contacted people, as for boards this is not the only thread on boards about the line BUT why be sarky about the campaigners and who is he accusing of only doing it for a political profile?

lord lucan

save the rail wrote: »

ALL FROM A CHAIR, unlike the campaigners, I agree about his letters, he contacted people, as for boards this is not the only thread on boards about the line BUT why be sarky about the campaigners and who is he accusing of only doing it for a political profile?

JD has an issue with someone who joined your group as an admin. He stated that himself. To be perfectly honest i've no personal interest in the internal politics of what goes on. Fair play to your group for taking the baton and trying to do something. I've contributed nothing bar opinions on here so i'm not gonna criticise anyone(people in glass houses and all that!).

parsi

save the rail wrote: »

And WHAT exactly have you done Judgement day? SWEET F**K ALL except to criticize those who were working day and night on the campaign.:mad:

You sir are a gob****e.

JD has done a tremendous amount for railways in Ireland. His criticisms are as a result of years of experience and years of getting pissed off by folk.

I don't know other posters here and I don't always agree with him but he has put his money where his mouth is.

He's also a sound guy...

Judgement Day

save the rail - you're right of course there are other threads about the closure on Boards - mostly started by me.

and this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055856124 on the Wexford Forum started in March 2010.

And this one started in June: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055950535

Groundhog Day on Connolly/Rosslare Line: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055638445 started on 1/8/2009

More surreal news from the Twilight Zone! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055729724 started 4/11/09

Threat of rail lines being axed http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055623025 started
16/7/2009

And yes, I do have a problem with people making political capital out of this closure and they know who they are and I'm not naming names. I have done most of my campaigning from my laptop and that's because of my personal circumstances - I have two young children and don't drive so attending protests at Bridgetown etc isn't possible, but I daresay I have used the line more in the last few years than many of the campaigners! When I lived in Cahir in the early 1990's I also campaigned on behalf of the Limerick Jn/Waterford service and with the help of the late Theresa Ahern (FG) was able to get a connection put back in at Waterford that CIE had removed as a pure act of sabotoge. Anyway enough said.

OurLadyofKnock

save the rail wrote: »

BUT why be sarky about the campaigners and who is he accusing of only doing it for a political profile?

Well this is Ireland.

Transportuser09

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Which is the same thing as saying the railway line is going to be closed.

I believe savetherail's comment that Dick Fearn said he would have no problem handing this line over, but at the same time I find it hard to imagine it being closed. From what I've seen the commuter services to Gorey seem quite well patronised, it would madness to close it. It has also been completely relaid cwr and is under the mini-CTC system. A new loop was installed somewhere, Wexford town I think. So north of Wexford town I think is fairly safe as far as closure is concerned, although it is the Cinderalla of the Dublin based routes. The NTA would never sanction that either. As for Waterford-Limerick Junction and the Nenagh line there probably is a real threat of closure; the worrying thing about Friday's decision is that it has set a precedent for such closures in the 21st century.

Transportuser09

rainbowdash wrote: »

Every cloud has a silver lining supposedly.

I would love to see Irish Rail broken up now and a new company run Galway-Wexford and LK-Ballybrophy centred around Limerick station. Then there would be integrated timetables and proper promotion of the lines.

Only direct intercity trains from Dublin running to Limerick under the Irish Rail flag.

Such a regional operator would be ideal in that it would be entirely focused on the regional routes and would want to develop them as best they can. These routes would be a reflection on the company. Sadly though I'm not convinced it's likely to happen.

dowlingm

save the rail wrote: »

Dick Fearn told campaigners and interested parties they can run from greystones-rosslare n wat line. four witnesses

I'm pretty sure I heard the Information Minister say "that's not true" at 18m55 on the Morning Ireland MP3. You and your witnesses should drop him a little note cc. his boss about telling fibs on the public airwaves.

dermo88

It has been a while since any organisation has gone from hero to zero in the space of 4 years. In 2006, Ireland had seen almost 15 years of unbroken economic growth and expansion. The entire Intercity fleet was being standardised for the first time in history, and money was being spent like confetti at a wedding.

As far as Iarnrod Eireann was concerned it was "make hay while the sun shines", and I cannot blame them for that.

Removing the Mark 3 fleet from service when they should/could have been refurbished was a major faux pax in my eyes, particularly the Push/Pull sets.

I believe that the 1981 McKinsey report was half implemented, in terms of the breaking up of CIE. CIE has never been a proper, fully integrated organisation. Its aim, its remit, under its political masters, and unions has been to be a glorified social employment scheme for its managers. There are many fine staff in Iarnrod Eireann who I am happy to call friends, but they are quietly scathing in their criticism of their management and political masters. There are also a minority who do not care, and are waiting for the redundancy package.

CIE was supposed to marry the best and most efficient elements of the old DUTC (Dublin United Transport Company) with an inefficient and moribund railway network (Great Southern Railways).

There has been a great deal of progress in terms of improving rolling stock, reliability and frequency, but the poison is still there.

Irelands economic crisis is now of Argentine proportions, and it is inevitable that questions will be asked whether the nation can afford to support a railway network like this, while there are many hands reaching into the depleted state coffers.

I have stated many times before on various fora that privatisation is the inevitable conclusion to the madness. My only objection is that Ireland, with a population of 4 Million has a political and economic establishment that appears concerned with "know who", rather than "know how".

This is the difference that seperates Ireland from other nations that have proceeded down the avenue of railway privatisation. New Zealand proceeded down the route of privatisation in the 1980's and 1990's, in the aftermath of a similar massive economic crisis. So too did Argentina. Britain also, in the aftermath of the 1990's recession.

It is crazy to have Iarnrod Eireann and Bus Eireann competing for the same business on parallel routes. Buses should meet trains, and railway stations should also serve bus routes, but they only do so in a limited number of cases.

I am convinced that Ballybrophy via Nenagh to Limerick is next on the hitlist. It was highlighted for closure under the 1957 Beddy report, and its physical condition is unsuitable at the time of writing for passenger traffic, particularly with a good quality motorway competing with it.

Standing back from the position of the railway network, we look at other socio-economic priorities, such as education, health, law and order, etc. The question needs to be asked, which......demands greater importance.

The railway network, since 1945 and the foundation of CIE has gradually faded into irrelevance on routes such as Rosslare to Limerick Junction, Limerick to Ballybrophy, and even the Ballina branch. There are success stories, such as the revival of Dublin to Sligo, and Limerick to Ennis, but it took dedication from communities, staff, and state to achieve this. Even then, in the case of the latter (Limerick to Ennis), there has been something of a botch job.

I like the concept of privatisation on a small to medium scale. Simple small scale solutions work best in Ireland. Take little things that made a big difference such as the plastic bag tax. If the staff working on Rosslare to Limerick and other routes were empowered with the opportunity to earn a salary with performance related bonuses, based on various KPI's, the revival and survival of the network in a better, more relevant form would be better. Working in partnership with private bus operators, rather than competing for the shrinking pie. Sharing profits, or receiving public service grants.

It might work. I might dream. Out of the wreckage, perhaps something better will come. But I won't hold my breath.

Judgement Day

The No Truth Allowed 'appear' to have made their decision based on lies, half-truths and twisted statistics from CIE/IE while completely ignoring the SERA report, the general public and anyone else who made a submission. I still haven't had the courtesy of a proper reply to my submission. How did they reach their conclusion? Is it because they are all cronies of Noel Dempsey - he who appointed them to the board of the NTA? Is it that they don't want to lose their nice little earner as board members? How much do they receive for their onerous duties? What experience do any of them, bar one, have of Irish railways? And, yes, before somebody comes on here to say, I am attacking the messenger because I don't like the message - that is because there's nobody left on the political front.

Our man in Havana

That is why their decision should be judicially reviewed.

save the rail

lord lucan wrote: »

JD has an issue with someone who joined your group as an admin. He stated that himself. To be perfectly honest i've no personal interest in the internal politics of what goes on. Fair play to your group for taking the baton and trying to do something. I've contributed nothing bar opinions on here so i'm not gonna criticise anyone(people in glass houses and all that!).

Dont get me wrong any help is appreciated including letters, forum threads ect. I dont dont like the sarky remarks being made against the campaigners, they did everything they could and are still doing it, it was a tough battle and to get the result they did is great news because now they can get someone who is interested in running a decent service.

OurLadyofKnock

Transportuser09 wrote: »

The NTA would never sanction that either.

All the NTA are is the rubber stamp which CIE management had made to ordered.

penexpers

save the rail wrote: »

because now they can get someone who is interested in running a decent service.

When can we expect this operator to start up?

I noticed from reading the NTA report that no cost-benefit analysis was done on increased passenger numbers that SERA based their report on and that based on the catchment areas the increased passenger numbers don't stack up anyway. Any thoughts on that?

topnotch

I think people need to get realistic. There is no chance of a private operator coming in and taking over the line. The only positive thing to come put of all the reports is that the Barrow bridge cant be locked open.

foggy_lad

topnotch wrote: »

I think people need to get realistic. There is no chance of a private operator coming in and taking over the line. The only positive thing to come put of all the reports is that the Barrow bridge cant be locked open.

i am sure irish rail will find a way to lock the bridge open even if it means taking down a span and resetting it for the yearly inspection!

thomasj

topnotch wrote: »

I think people need to get realistic. There is no chance of a private operator coming in and taking over the line. The only positive thing to come put of all the reports is that the Barrow bridge cant be locked open.

I was thinking that myself but the opportunity of taking on the freight business along with passenger services might be a tempting offer

OurLadyofKnock

thomasj wrote: »

I was thinking that myself but the opportunity of taking on the freight business along with passenger services might be a tempting offer

If if there was a business in the line, the start up costs would make it a non-runner. The new operator is going to have to buy the gear off IE and they will be asking a king's randsom for old locos and maybe 2 DMUs.

The only private firm on that line will the private engineering company CIE/IE management contracts to weld the Barrow Bridge in the open position for all eternity.

You know it. I know it. The crabs in the Barrow know it.