Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

topnotch

save the rail wrote: »

Wexford still has one line left which they serve, they wont get to do the same to that line

I think it's about time you rename your group, "couldn't save the rail" :rolleyes: and start backing up your wild fanciful claims with some hard evidence.

purplepanda

Lets face it IE have an future Pale Rail agenda for rail that eventually will consist of Dublin Cork Belfast Galway & the GDA commuter routes, they only went along with the WRC project because parish pump gombeen politics insisted on it!! South Wexford was a easy target because the line had been run down by IE for decades & local opposition would not initially be as strong as places like the West.

They would love to close more lines tomorrow & judging by the IE management vultures that appeared from near & far yesterday to feast they will be searching far & wide for more victims to kill off. And they even managed to locate more rolling stock despite shortages for their blood lust!!

The fact that such vindictive persons exist in a supposed modern European Rail company & that they even have apologists for their disgraceful decisions further afield including politicans sums up all that is wrong at present in Irish transport policy.

I for one won't be using any IE services when traveling around the country in future, I really can't justify putting money into the pockets of those that benefited from making these decisions which will continue to impact on the general passenger public whom they are supposed to serve.

IE needs to be disbanded ASAP if there is to be any future for Irish railway services.

Transportuser09

Being realistic the main Rosslare to Dublin line should be safe, in any case a lot has been invested in it in terms of mini-CTC and relaying throughout. I know people will say 'but they did a bit of relaying on the south Wexford/Nenagh branch' but neither of these lines got a full relay. There's no way they would get away with closing the line to Wexford town, Rosslare is a low cente of population but even at that I can't see it being cut. Ballybrophy to Limerick and possibly Limerick Junction to Waterford seem the only likely candidates for closure the way I see it. Ballina was suggested for cuts with these but to be honest I can't see that happening as traffic is higher on this than the regional routes mentioned, plus like the Rosslare-Dublin it has been modernised in recent years.

Transportuser09

topnotch wrote: »

I think it's about time you rename your group, "couldn't save the rail" :rolleyes: and start backing up your wild fanciful claims with some hard evidence.

Whilst I'll admit I don't have a lot of faith in some of the campaign's well intentioned aims coming to fruition, nor do I believe the other Rosslare line will close south of Gorey, they did at least try to save their local line, certainly more than you have done. So I think mocking their username is a bit uncalled for. There's far too much animosity on this site when it comes to rail issues. Over the past few months various groups including savetherail, WOT, IRRS etc... have been mocked in some way or other in relation to this thread, when the line's failure to survive is primarily the doing of it's operator, not any of the others.

dowlingm

Here's what I want to know. Did anyone from Wexford Co. Council come forward at any point in the closure process and say "we would financially assist IE in keeping the line open".

The variable created by the FRRHC makes it unclear to me whether closing other lines is quite the same as closing this one (i.e. that this one is easier to close as IE don't own it and thus the local councils couldn't simply buy the South Wexford stations off IE, leasing them back at a nominal rent, to help defray some of the cost of automation and CWR)

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Here's what I want to know. Did anyone from Wexford Co. Council come forward at any point in the closure process and say "we would financially assist IE in keeping the line open".

The variable created by the FRRHC makes it unclear to me whether closing other lines is quite the same as closing this one (i.e. that this one is easier to close as IE don't own it and thus the local councils couldn't simply buy the South Wexford stations off IE, leasing them back at a nominal rent, to help defray some of the cost of automation and CWR)

Sadly, in an ideal world this might be possible but where on earth do you think local authorities would get the money? Ratepayers down here are being screwed by ever increasing rates bills as it is.

Judgement Day

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Quite possible. The next few years are going to see huge changes of this manner in the less popular lines i think.

'There isn't a hope in hell of that line even being considered to be closed down. It passes through a couple of decent size commuter towns and runs from the capital' from your post #1560 - so you're contradicting yourself again.

Incidentally, the two next lines now awaiting the chop (Limerick Jn/Waterford and Limerick/Ballybrophy) also suffer from 'inventive' timetabling and lack of investment. What do the workers do to raise these issues with their unions or isn't it the case that staff morale is so low that they roll over like pussy cats and await their severance packages?

penexpers

They were hanging a new (I think) network map up in Hueston Station this morning and it still showed Rosslare Strand to Waterford.

save the rail

Ok seriously guys lets not get personal - I apologise for calling mickydoomsux a CIE Lover, it was childish of me . Lets all try to stick to the subject and refrain from personal attacks, we all are entitled to our opinions.

mickydoomsux

Judgement Day wrote: »

'There isn't a hope in hell of that line even being considered to be closed down. It passes through a couple of decent size commuter towns and runs from the capital' from your post #1560 - so you're contradicting yourself again.

Oh look, Judgement Day once again doesn't bother to read my posts properly before commenting on them. That statement was made in relation to the post about the service only running from Gorey to Dublin. Running a reduced service, excluding less popular stops, isn't the same as closing a line entirely.

What do the workers do to raise these issues with their unions or isn't it the case that staff morale is so low that they roll over like pussy cats and await their severance packages?

They do raise the issues and they are told the truth of the sitaution which is that it doesn't make sense to keep running a badly loss-making line. Should they lobby their unions and the company to keep the line open purely out of self interest just to keep their jobs? You'd complain about that then.

Judgement Day

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Oh look, Judgement Day once again doesn't bother to read my posts properly before commenting on them. That statement was made in relation to the post about the service only running from Gorey to Dublin. Running a reduced service, excluding less popular stops, isn't the same as closing a line entirely.



They do raise the issues and they are told the truth of the sitaution which is that it doesn't make sense to keep running a badly loss-making line. Should they lobby their unions and the company to keep the line open purely out of self interest just to keep their jobs? You'd complain about that then.

In case it has escaped your attention the whole of CIE/IE is a financial disaster area, so from what your saying the whole operation should be closed down. CIE/IE unions have no brief for the railway, just their members, always was always will be until the entire moribund organisation is replaced by people who believe in the railway and are prepared to work hard to make it work. Take out all the top management and a lot of the clerical staff and the railway might have some chance.

PS I do read your posts thoroughly and you keep moving the goalposts. By the way lads and lassies Billydoomsux is the real McCoy and I know numerous CIE/IE clerical staff who think like him.

schemingbohemia

dowlingm wrote: »

Here's what I want to know. Did anyone from Wexford Co. Council come forward at any point in the closure process and say "we would financially assist IE in keeping the line open".

The variable created by the FRRHC makes it unclear to me whether closing other lines is quite the same as closing this one (i.e. that this one is easier to close as IE don't own it and thus the local councils couldn't simply buy the South Wexford stations off IE, leasing them back at a nominal rent, to help defray some of the cost of automation and CWR)

What would be more interesting to hear from the councillors of both county councils is how much they did to keep the line viable by concentrating development in their counties along the line and pushing IE to increase services to meet the increasing population. They were the ones that had the power to make the line viable in their planning decisions and they failed massively on that score.

mickydoomsux

Judgement Day wrote: »

CIE/IE unions have no brief for the railway, just their members, always was always will be until the entire moribund organisation is replaced by people who believe in the railway and are prepared to work hard to make it work

You don't really understand the idea of a union do you? The idea of a union is to protect the workers pay and conditions. They don't have to give a hoot about the company because they don't work for it.

Take out all the top management and a lot of the clerical staff and the railway might have some chance.

Agreed. There is no Fastrack and very little heavy freight any more so there are too few management and clerical jobs for too many people. When employees at this level are leaving none of them are being replaced.

Judgement Day

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You don't really understand the idea of a union do you? The idea of a union is to protect the workers pay and conditions. They don't have to give a hoot about the company because they don't work for it.



Agreed. There is no Fastrack and very little heavy freight any more so there are too few management and clerical jobs for too many people. When employees at this level are leaving none of them are being replaced.

Which is what I said- 'CIE/IE unions have no brief for the railway, just their members....

Cookie_Monster

mickydoomsux wrote: »

They don't have to give a hoot about the company because they don't work for it.

of course they do, cos if the company goes bust then their members will have no jobs and will have no need to be members. Its not their top priority by any means but reasonable interaction with the company is needed, even if it is just for information on the future of the business.

mickydoomsux

Judgement Day wrote: »

Which is what I said- 'CIE/IE unions have no brief for the railway, just their members....

Well to be fair there are only two unions in CIE, SIPTU and the MBRU. SIPTU is a huge union and the IE membership is a drop in the ocean for them. The MBRU are a small union, even within CIE, so perhaps they might have a considerable vested interest but they are far too small to have any real influence on anything major in the company.

Slightly off topic, but for those of you in the thread promoting the idea of privitisation here is an interesting news story. This is the kind of thing you'll get if privitisation of part or all of the Irish rail network happens. A new operator will try to 'Mick O' Leary' their services. Also, interesting from my own point of view to see that they also have problems with violent behaviour toward staff. Is that just a thing with people when it comes to public transport employees? Anyway, sorry for the tangent but i thought it had a tiny bit of relevance to the discussions here what with privitisation of the Waterford/Rossale stretch coming up a few times.

purplepanda

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but for those of you in the thread promoting the idea of privitisation here is an interesting news story. This is the kind of thing you'll get if privitisation of part or all of the Irish rail network happens. A new operator will try to 'Mick O' Leary' their services. Anyway, sorry for the tangent but i thought it had a tiny bit of relevance to the discussions here what with privitisation of the Waterford/Rossale stretch coming up a few times.

So it seems you would rather have no trains running & shut down lines than allow access to the rail network to private companies who are interested in providing services where none now exist? You've given your reasons & opinions on why the rail line was shut down but yet you don't want any privatisation? :rolleyes:

Hungerford

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but for those of you in the thread promoting the idea of privitisation here is an interesting news story. This is the kind of thing you'll get if privitisation of part or all of the Irish rail network happens.

Absolutely shocking.

It's not like IE have any vehicles in their fleet operating routes with a similar journey time with no toilets, is it?

Plus the operator is engaging in the outrageous practice of investing in its routes and not shutting them down.

:rolleyes:

mickydoomsux

purplepanda wrote: »

So it seems you would rather have no trains running & shut down lines than allow access to the rail network to private companies who are interested in providing services where none now exist? You've given your reasons & opinions on why the rail line was shut down but yet you don't want any privatisation? :rolleyes:

Nowhere in any of my posts did i say i didn't want privatisation. I just pointed out how the service could end up if it was privatised.

It could equally end up being much cheaper and better than our current offering (look at the private owned and run JJ Kavanagh bus service from Waterford to Dublin airport. Great sevice). No one knows. I was talking in possibilities.

purplepanda

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Nowhere in any of my posts did i say i didn't want privatisation. I just pointed out how the service could end up if it was privatised.

It could equally end up being much cheaper and better than our current offering (look at the private owned and run JJ Kavanagh bus service from Waterford to Dublin airport. Great sevice). No one knows. I was talking in possibilities.

Privatisation is better than no service at all, even if IE & some union members don't like that it's an obvious fact.

Ardcavan buses also run a good service from Wellington Bridge to Dublin, hardly surprising as IE were never interested in increasing passenger numbers on the South Wexford Line, even making viable onward connections at Waterford & Rosslare to other routes & destinations seemed beyond their comprehension!

It's only a matter of time before bus services take even more of the marketshare in passengers from IE unless the railways increase their service frequency & reduce journey times!

Billions spent on upgrades yet the speeds are still slow on most lines!!!

thomasj

mickydoomsux wrote: »

.

Slightly off topic, but for those of you in the thread promoting the idea of privitisation here is an interesting news story. This is the kind of thing you'll get if privitisation of part or all of the Irish rail network happens. A new operator will try to 'Mick O' Leary' their services. Also, interesting from my own point of view to see that they also have problems with violent behaviour toward staff. Is that just a thing with people when it comes to public transport employees? Anyway, sorry for the tangent but i thought it had a tiny bit of relevance to the discussions here what with privitisation of the Waterford/Rossale stretch coming up a few times.

Haven't the DARTs got no toilets? A trek from Connolly to greystones is 55 minutes, longer if coming from stations north of connolly

Our man in Havana

They have no toilets at all.

dowlingm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What would be more interesting to hear from the councillors of both county councils is how much they did to keep the line viable

If you mean the South Wexford, then the only county council that could have done this is Wexford Co. Co.

JD - while I agree that Co. Co.s are cash strapped I bet an examination of their budgets will still find dopey things (conferences and the like) in it that are less important.

mickydoomsux

thomasj wrote: »

Haven't the DARTs got no toilets? A trek from Connolly to greystones is 55 minutes, longer if coming from stations north of connolly

True but i think the DART is supposed to be a purely commuter rail service like the Underground in London or the subway system in New York, neither of which has toilets on the trains either.

dowlingm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

for those of you in the thread promoting the idea of privitisation here is an interesting news story. This is the kind of thing you'll get if privitisation of part or all of the Irish rail network happens.

TFA wrote:

The Department for Transport said there are no rules on whether or not toilets should be available on trains.

mickydoomsux don't you agree that IE is well capable of pulling a stroke if the DofT or NTA didn't explicitly forbid such a thing? Such as "Care And Maintenance" on suspended lines?

mickydoomsux

dowlingm wrote: »

mickydoomsux don't you agree that IE is well capable of pulling a stroke if the DofT or NTA didn't explicitly forbid such a thing?

Oh, of course. Anything to keep costs down. The'll trim back as much as they possibly can but luckily for passengers the DofT and NTA act as a safety net to prevent the 'cattle car' situation from occuring.

foggy_lad

You mean like the poor unfortunates from Sligo that have to endure trips in a railcart 18times a week at least?

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Oh, of course. Anything to keep costs down. The'll trim back as much as they possibly can but luckily for passengers the DofT and NTA act as a safety net to prevent the 'cattle car' situation from occuring.

ahlongsdnbhd

We have to deal with the public perception of CIE. mickydoomsux openly admits that there are benefits attached to failure. That there are bonuses attached to making a rail service fail.

The unions are now engaged in scare mongering. The staff of CIE know that their number is up, and Rosslare to Waterford is the first stage of that. I only hope that savetherail is not bluffing, and what she states is a reality.

At least two CIE staff are here trying to bluff, fluff and rebuff all arguments thrown against them.

The banning and suspension of posters on this forum will only serve CIE. It will not serve those who truly care, and those who want modern, efficient, accountable, public transport to succceed.

dowlingm

and what does not banning them do? I bet the Information Minister quakes in his boots at the thought of us here. :rolleyes:

-Chris-

ahlongsdnbhd wrote: »

The banning and suspension of posters on this forum will only serve CIE. It will not serve those who truly care, and those who want modern, efficient, accountable, public transport to succceed.

If you have an issue with the moderation of this forum, please bring it up with the mods by PM. If you have an issue with a post, please report it and we'll deal with it.

I have (as much as is practicable) no pro or anti-CIE agenda. I just want to see some civility and respect, and nothing defamatory. Beyond that, knock yourself out.