Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

invinciblePRSTV

Due up for discussion on RTE Radio 1 wthin the next hour.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/index.html

DWCommuter

18.10 on Radio 1.

dowlingm

I note that the Dail Committee on Transport heard from New Ross Port officials in July 2009 with discussion of a merger between the three Ports of Rosslare, Waterford and New Ross which would likely result in New Ross's closure as Waterford has increased its bulk capacity and flows like oil and zinc have ceased at New Ross. This was proposed by a Review in 2003.

If New Ross closed, then the necessity for the Barrow to be an opening bridge would change, or at least it might change to the extent to it being jacked up and fixed, as at Shannonbridge, with a higher speed limit due to the lack of a joint at the swing pieces. If so, and the spans were replaced with ones of newer lighter materials (the US Armed Forces are trialling plastic bridges to run tanks over!) then maybe two road lanes could be added to the bridge with a toll operation, given that the Ferrybank-Passage East ferry is not a 24 hour service. The eastern approach road to the bridge could then be routed north along with the rail line to a new halt north of Campile, with the abandonment of the existing line and station (and bridge just east of the Barrow at Dunbrody Abbey).

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

I note that the Dail Committee on Transport heard from New Ross Port officials in July 2009 with discussion of a merger between the three Ports of Rosslare, Waterford and New Ross which would likely result in New Ross's closure as Waterford has increased its bulk capacity and flows like oil and zinc have ceased at New Ross. This was proposed by a Review in 2003.

If New Ross closed, then the necessity for the Barrow to be an opening bridge would change, or at least it might change to the extent to it being jacked up and fixed, as at Shannonbridge, with a higher speed limit due to the lack of a joint at the swing pieces. If so, and the spans were replaced with ones of newer lighter materials (the US Armed Forces are trialling plastic bridges to run tanks over!) then maybe two road lanes could be added to the bridge with a toll operation, given that the Ferrybank-Passage East ferry is not a 24 hour service. The eastern approach road to the bridge could then be routed north along with the rail line to a new halt north of Campile, with the abandonment of the existing line and station (and bridge just east of the Barrow at Dunbrody Abbey).

I prefer to go with my friend Alan French, a civil engineer, who reckons tinkering with the bridge is only nonsense. He set out the facts regarding the bridge in a letter to the Irish Times on October 2nd 1976 - see below.

FlameoftheWest

shamwari wrote: »

And where do you get the feeling that most of the posters are from the UK?

And why do I get the feeling you are someone banned from here for, among other things, peddling this sort of irrelevant and distractional nonsense.

What? A very odd remark.

If you look at IRN the most busy posters often have names such as UK Trainspotter, MidlandDeltic and so on. Their next event highlighted is in London. I am not putting these guys down because of their location. You asked and here is the evidence. No need to be so personal or paranoid my friend.

FlameoftheWest

Judgement Day thanks for all these old articles. They make interesting reading. Well done. One gets the impression that CIE almost has a hatred of this lenght of railway. Which leaves me to ask is there some historical reason why CIE would have such disregard for this line? Did it belong to a railway company which they had a turf war with at some point?

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I prefer to go with my friend Alan French, a civil engineer, who reckons tinkering with the bridge is only nonsense. He set out the facts regarding the bridge in a letter to the Irish Times on October 2nd 1976

Feck! That's me told anyway

Still, even without the road deck it should be a saving if the thing could at least be converted to a fixed pier, right?

Judgement Day

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Judgement Day thanks for all these old articles. They make interesting reading. Well done. One gets the impression that CIE almost has a hatred of this lenght of railway. Which leaves me to ask is there some historical reason why CIE would have such disregard for this line? Did it belong to a railway company which they had a turf war with at some point?

You may have a point but I think it stems from their pathological hatred of railways full stop, and to be fair to them they are consistent and are working to a plan since nationalisation in 1950 viz

1) Close all narrow gauge lines. T&D, West Clare, Schull & Skibbereen (but not before painting all carriages into "Flying Snail" livery first!
2) Close all branchlines. Ballinrobe, Cashel, Mitchelstown, Banagher, Tullow, Youghal, Valentia, Kenmare etc.
3) Close all self-contained/isolated systems. Waterford & Tramore, West Cork etc.
4) Close all secondary mainlines. Mallow/Waterford, Limerick/Tralee, Limerick/Sligo, Mullingar/Athlone etc.
5) Close all non-radial routes. Limerick Junction/Rosslare Strand, Limerick/Ballybrophy.
6) Close all single track inter-city routes. Maynooth/Sligo, Dublin/Westport, Dublin/Galway, Dublin/Limerick, Mallow/Tralee, Dublin/Waterford and Dublin/Rosslare south of Arklow (preferably) Bray!

Jack Higgins who was General Manager during the early/mid 1980s was the first, and last, senior manager to finally admit that any further pruning of the network was pointless and would probably kill the patient. By the time he saw the light it was too late as retirement beckoned.

While items Nos.5 and 6 of 'the final solution' are still being worked at you can see why Transport 21, the WRC and freight revival at Ballina must be really pissing them off.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Dublin/Rosslare line is one of the most scenic routes in the Bristish Isles excluding the Ffestiniog and some of the Scottish lines but does CIE/IE take advantage of the fact? Someone in there at least used to recognise the fact some years ago as all CIE's poster pics were shot in the Vale of Avoca, Killiney Hill etc.
All sorts of innovative ideas are needed to rejuvenate all the railways - not just the DSER - and tourism is one; Fastrack is another; decent catering (buffet cars); 1st class, variety of services (Dublin/Waterford via Rosslare); proper timetabling with connections; increased frequency of services and the possibility of returning from Waterford to Wexford as most passengers don't want to emigrate......

+1........... I reckon the Dublin/Rosslare line is a readymade tourist attraction in itself, a spectacular journey all the way including the cliff section through the cuttings and tunnels South of Bray, designed by one of the greatest engineers of all time - Brunel !!!

There is a further reason why the Wexford - Waterford line should not be closed. If you look at the current rail map including the 'soon to be opened' WRC - you see that there is a circular rail line, which could have a lot of potential from a rail tour perspective. A 'Ring of Ireland' itinerary - Dublin, Wexford, Waterford, Limerick, Galway, Dublin.

The alternative is a 'star shaped' railway map with spurs to the major cities and towns - from Dublin back to Dublin. This thing about the Barrow Bridge is a red herring, just maintain it along with the track etc. Cost of maintenance is only a fraction of the cost of re-instatement.

The Waterford-Wexford link should also be retained as it forms part of the South-East infrastructure - why relinquish it. This country was criticised at the beginning of the Celtic Tiger for having a Third World infrastructure, and here we go, a year or two down the road, closing down a rail line of strategic value.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Feck! That's me told anyway

Still, even without the road deck it should be a saving if the thing could at least be converted to a fixed pier, right?

A ship is more likely to take half the bridge out of it some night - it's been hit a few times as far as I know.

Judgement Day

Another cutting from my archives which shows how the line has always been used as a politcial football. This cutting is from the Irish Times of Jan 20th 1977 and the Fine Gael Transport Minister is busy assuring people that they won't let CIE close the line, while the smaller cutting from Jan 21st 1977 has the FF opposition TD for Wexford (uncle of the present waster incumbent who inherited the seat) expressing outrage! Boot is on the other foot this time.

Hungerford

DWCommuter wrote: »

18.10 on Radio 1.

The Barry Kenny reality distortion field was on full whack there - "no line has had passenger services suspended since the 1970s". What does that make Athlone-Mullingar?

He also blamed Wexford County Council for not assisting them.

Looks like there will be no alternative service if they shut it either. :eek:

dowlingm

In fairness, he has a point re: Wexford Co. Co. but that applies to all of them. They recognise they have to contribute to roads (in fact they resented the NRA being put in charge of them) but having nothing to say or contribute except demands re: rail.

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

The Barry Kenny reality distortion field was on full whack there - "no line has had passenger services suspended since the 1970s". What does that make Athlone-Mullingar?

He also blamed Wexford County Council for not assisting them.

Looks like there will be no alternative service if they shut it either. :eek:

Missed that item - so damn hard to listen to The Right Hook, Matt Cooper and Drivetime at the same time! Was he in the studio and was anybody else interviewed or was it the typical lazy RTE job?

Run_to_da_hills

Judgement Day wrote: »

Missed that item - so damn hard to listen to The Right Hook, Matt Cooper and Drivetime at the same time! Was he in the studio and was anybody else interviewed or was it the typical lazy RTE job?

It should be on podcast somewhere, missed it myself. :mad:

Judgement Day

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It should be on podcast somewhere, missed it myself. :mad:

Yeah, should be available as a podcast tomorrow as Monday's programme was still up a few minutes ago.

According to the Facebook page which now has 508 members!! - the Labour Councillor from Wexford, Joe Ryan, was also on the programme.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=367387502018

wild handlin

Judgement Day wrote: »

Missed that item - so damn hard to listen to The Right Hook, Matt Cooper and Drivetime at the same time! Was he in the studio and was anybody else interviewed or was it the typical lazy RTE job?

Go to: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetime/ and click on "LATEST SHOW" at the top of page.

Once the media player has loaded up slide the bar across until you get to "01:46:xx" and hit play. It comes on just after the Denny Ham Advert and lasts approx 10 mins.
Basically Mr Kenny said that the line was to close due "only about 25 people using it per day", and that it travels through a "low density population area" while the likes of the new Middletown line goes thru more populated lines hence why it can survive.

Clr Joe Ryan from Labour made a valid point about why not run a commuter service from Wexford - Waterford but was basically disregarded by Mr Kenny.

dowlingm

wild handlin wrote: »

Clr Joe Ryan from Labour made a valid point about why not run a commuter service from Wexford - Waterford but was basically disregarded by Mr Kenny

The Information Minister strikes again! :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

wild handlin wrote: »

Go to: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetime/ and click on "LATEST SHOW" at the top of page.

Once the media player has loaded up slide the bar across until you get to "01:46:xx" and hit play. It comes on just after the Denny Ham Advert and lasts approx 10 mins.
Basically Mr Kenny said that the line was to close due "only about 25 people using it per day", and that it travels through a "low density population area" while the likes of the new Middletown line goes thru more populated lines hence why it can survive.

Clr Joe Ryan from Labour made a valid point about why not run a commuter service from Wexford - Waterford but was basically disregarded by Mr Kenny.

Well thanks for that! Listened to the interview and the weasel words of Barry Kenny - full of crap as usual. No mention by either Mary Wilson or Joe Ryan of the Brian Cowen's 'revolutionary' idea of FREE rail travel for foreign tourists. No mention of non-existent connections and the 25 people is a blatant lie!!! It was a lazy piece instead of getting the participants into the studio - typical Montrose low budget crap. I have done phone interviews myself and they are most unsatisfactory. They might as well send the lifting trains now if RTE are letting CIE off the hook that easily. Where are Bredan Howlin, Paul Kehoe and John Browne - why is it being left to Cllr.Ryan???:mad:

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well thanks for that! Listened to the interview and the weasel words of Barry Kenny - full of crap as usual. No mention by either Mary Wilson or Joe Ryan of the Brian Cowen's 'revolutionary' idea of FREE rail travel for foreign tourists. No mention of non-existent connections and the 25 people is a blatant lie!!! It was a lazy piece instead of getting the participants into the studio - typical Montrose low budget crap. I have done phone interviews myself and they are most unsatisfactory. They might as well send the lifting trains now if RTE are letting CIE off the hook that easily. Where are Bredan Howlin, Paul Kehoe and John Browne - why is it being left to Cllr.Ryan???:mad:

Apparently this is the 4 day trekker ticket according to the Evening Herald, worth 100 Euro. I wonder do they know what awaits them as they commence their radial journeys ! Bit like getting a train set from Santa with no oval track, just several lengths of straight track leading off a star shaped centre piece. Maybe that's the 'revolutionary' bit.

seekers

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well thanks for that! Listened to the interview and the weasel words of Barry Kenny - full of crap as usual. No mention by either Mary Wilson or Joe Ryan of the Brian Cowen's 'revolutionary' idea of FREE rail travel for foreign tourists. No mention of non-existent connections and the 25 people is a blatant lie!!! It was a lazy piece instead of getting the participants into the studio - typical Montrose low budget crap. I have done phone interviews myself and they are most unsatisfactory. They might as well send the lifting trains now if RTE are letting CIE off the hook that easily. Where are Bredan Howlin, Paul Kehoe and John Browne - why is it being left to Cllr.Ryan???:mad:

The PR and spin from IR is really depressing. They are the company which has use of state assets to carry out rail transport in this country. They are failing miserably in this and show only interest in serving Dublin

dowlingm

I was having a look at the line in the OSI Mapviewer - for rural areas of the country you can't beat it (Bing Maps being best in class for Ireland that I've found but only in the cities) but also because it shows the LCs at larger scales and the contour lines for terrain.

Who the feck thought it was a good idea not merely to locate a housing estate north of Rosslare Strand between two railway lines just north of the junction, but to build it while retaining a level crossing between the two halves of it across the bloody Waterford-Rosslare?

You see, that kind of thing IS the county council's fault.

Mocrie14

If this line closes will there be any rail link between wex and waterford??

JHMEG

Jeez, that RTE "interview" was pathetic. Where were the questions, never mind the hard ones!

One state employee interviewing another never makes for good radio or TV.

KC61

Bazbu wrote: »

If this line closes will there be any rail link between wex and waterford??

No - except via Dublin and that would involve either a LUAS/bus transfer from Heuston to Connolly.

Judgement Day

I suggest that you lie down on the floor before reading this piece from today's paper...

The Irish Times - Wednesday, March 17, 2010
Tourists over 66 get free travel in Ireland

ALISON HEALY



OLDER TOURISTS will enjoy free rail travel around the State following the introduction of a new scheme yesterday.
All overseas visitors aged 66 or over, from anywhere in the world, will be able to benefit from unlimited travel on mainline, Dart and commuter trains in the scheme, developed by Fáilte Ireland in conjunction with Iarnród Éireann.
The scheme was announced by the Government as part of the budget in December, in a bid to increase overseas visitor numbers.
It is similar to the free travel scheme for Irish people aged 66 and over, but does not include free bus or Luas travel.
It also differs from the scheme for Irish residents when it comes to cross-Border travel. Irish senior citizens travelling from Dublin to Belfast are entitled to free rail travel for the entire journey, but overseas visitors will only be entitled to free travel for the portion of their journey in this State. They will have to purchase a ticket for the remainder of their trip, from Dundalk onwards.
The scheme is initially for a one-year period, but will be subject to review and is expected to continue indefinitely if the demand is there.Tourists can access the scheme by visiting the Fáilte Ireland website, www.discoverireland.com, to arrange for a “Golden Trekker” reservation. They will be asked for details such as their date of birth and passport or national identity card number. Their Golden Trekker reservation can then be used to book their free Golden Trekker tickets when they arrive.
Tickets can be purchased in blocks of four days, depending on the length of stay. A four-day unlimited ticket is normally worth €100.
Visitors who do not pre-book the reservation can also avail of the scheme when they arrive by calling to a Fáilte Ireland tourist information office.
Fáilte Ireland’s Redmond O’Donoghue said the initiative was a very encouraging and constructive development.
“It will help strengthen the appeal of Ireland among some visitors, and Fáilte Ireland believes it will pay dividends to Irish tourism longer term.”
Iarnród Éireann chief executive Dick Fearn said the scheme would give Irish tourism a boost in a difficult time.
“As well as providing tourists with rail travel facilities, they will also benefit from the unique perspective our network gives of the beautiful Irish countryside.”
The Times of India has already highlighted the scheme, following Taoiseach Brian Cowen’s remarks on it earlier this month.

corktina

i take it you are anti this then? I can see merit in it...particularly if it is publicised well over the water. Irish Rail (sorry, Iarnrod éireann) need to make sure they think of ways to extract dosh from these tourists such as food and drink and other facilities on the stations á lá airlines...

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

i take it you are anti this then? I can see merit in it...particularly if it is publicised well over the water. Irish Rail (sorry, Iarnrod éireann) need to make sure they think of ways to extract dosh from these tourists such as food and drink and other facilities on the stations á lá airlines...

No, on the face of it it's a great idea but closing a potential access route (Waterford/Rosslare/Limerick Junction) to the Irish Rail network shows the usual lack of the much vaunted, rarely seen 'joined up thinking'! Plus involve CIE/Irish Rail in anything and the outcome is inevitable.

dowlingm

How much is Failte paying IE as a PSO? If they're not, they can f**k right off. I'm still mad over the decision to let the free travel people onto peak period services.

Run_to_da_hills

dowlingm wrote: »

How much is Failte paying IE as a PSO? If they're not, they can f**k right off. I'm still mad over the decision to let the free travel people onto peak period services.

I don't think there would be too much odf a problem with the elderly hogging seats on rush hour commuter trains. A lot of them would abide by tourist operators that would have a set agenda outside these periods.

The government would have benefited right across the board if they scrapped the e10 tourist tax at airports.