800+ jobs in South Dublin lost - thanks John Gormley

RogueT

You would think with the number of jobs being lost John Gormely wouldnt be making decisions like this....John, the unempolyed of South Dublin salute you.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-2091362.html

This was going to be in the undeveloped part of The Park in Carrickmines - would have been a huge success, instead he says it will effect the planned development of Cherrywood - which is unlikely ever to be built. Ideology over job creation by the Greens.

Cookie_Monster

WTF :eek::mad:

What planet is that moron on?

Atomic Pineapple

Blame anybody that voted for them

crushproof

Sure The Park as it still have vacant lots and half the time some of the shops are almost empty.
And not to mention the only way to get their is by car, something I would have thought they'd be avoiding to do along the M50.
Better off focusing on developing Cherrywood instead, absoutely nothing there at the moment other then a Spar.
And anyway, he says it wasn't in line with proper planning standards, would you not agree that it's about time planning rules and regulations were enforced in this country?

RogueT

Id pefer if the Governement encouraged job creation, Cherrywood will not be developed for another 10-15 years if at all and the Luas line will be running past The Park in the next few months aswell. And the place might be quiet during the week (so are all retail parks) but it is packed every weekend and try getting a aprking space up there in December.

And if the local council voted on it to go ahead then the correct planning was adhered to - it was passed..twice! maybe the councillors just realised that circumstances had changed since the regional plan was developed and people in teh area desperately need employment. Ideology ahead of job creation by the Greens.

Cookie_Monster

i can only assume this is because DLRCOCO now effectively own Cherrywood as it was part of the Zoe group mess. It's now in their interest to create as much as possible in Cherrywood even though its a ghost town (I work in the estate)

At least Carrickjmines already has something to draw people there other than office blocks.

And not to mention the only way to get their is by car, something I would have thought they'd be avoiding to do along the M50.

63 passes by and Luas soon will too.

RogueT

Dont think the plot of land ear marked for the Cherrywood Retail Centre will come under NAMA's control as its a greenfield site. Some of the councellors have said the guy who owns it "is not well" and he has not intention of starting construction.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out as the papers are saying Gormless's actions werent legal...I presume the developer isnt going to roll over on this one without a fight.

Ironic that the Greens are saying the traffic infastructure isnt god enought yet they allowed Ikea to be built in a similar posiotion off the M50 - the Greens may claimn to be whiter than white but I wonder.

Fratton Fred

Democracy eh? You just can't beat it.

Cookie_Monster

RogueT wrote: »

Ironic that the Greens are saying the traffic infastructure isnt god enought yet they allowed Ikea to be built in a similar posiotion off the M50 - the Greens may claimn to be whiter than white but I wonder.

M50, Luas nearly finished, buses pass by and will soon enter the estate, most roads in the area have been rebuilt to a much higher spec in the last 5 years.

Not good enough, whats he smoking?

Morlar

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Democracy eh? You just can't beat it.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gormley-move-puts-800-jobs--in-jeopardy-2091362.html


Mr Gormley's intervention is coming despite council approval and no local objections to the development.

Members of the county council voted in support of the project in March last year and again in November, following the local elections at which all three Green councillors lost their seats.
.......

You have got to love the tone he uses in communications too . . . .


He continued: "My direction requires the council to delete the designation of Carrickmines as a retail centre and this direction should be implemented immediately."

Mr Gormley's letter was sent only days before the go-ahead for the centre, which was to be adopted in the draft county plan this Wednesday.

The Sunday Independent understands that Mr Keegan is seeking legal advice on how to respond to Mr Gormley's intervention.

I really hope they do mount a legal challenge to Gormley. He is an absolute travesty of a minister in my view.

He continued: "One of the only groups who expressed their opposition were Green Party representatives, who indicated that they had their ideological concerns about the proposal."

Yesterday, Mr Gormley's spokesman refuted the claim that he opposed this development on ideological grounds,

Atomic Pineapple

Unreal, Morlar's post just says it all.

The greens should be shipped out of the country and anyone that voted for them should have there heads checked

SerialComplaint

A new centre does not create extra jobs. People won't have extra spending power in the pockets, so any new jobs at the new centre will be matched by lost jobs at the existing retailers. It is a zero sum game.

Morlar

SerialComplaint wrote: »

A new centre does not create extra jobs. People won't have extra spending power in the pockets, so any new jobs at the new centre will be matched by lost jobs at the existing retailers. It is a zero sum game.

The People who are not getting the new jobs thanks to Gormley sure wont have any extra money into the economy.

Each one of them is likely to be currently on the dole and costing money instead of making it.


PS You might at least get the numbers right ;

"This minister is a total joke. 800 full-time jobs, 700 construction jobs and 1,500 part-time jobs are being sacrificed here. It's disgraceful."

Cookie_Monster

SerialComplaint wrote: »

A new centre does not create extra jobs. People won't have extra spending power in the pockets, so any new jobs at the new centre will be matched by lost jobs at the existing retailers. It is a zero sum game.

that makes no sense.

Of course new jobs are created. Tesco (if they setup here) will not fire all they're Ballybrack staff to compensate :rolleyes:
The store would require x amount of staff which will be mgt moved from stores and training programmes and general staff newly hired. Most stores will be the same. The areas its in means its not really directly competing with any one other area for custom so while all surrounding areas may lose slightly none will lose massively, or enough to close.

Fratton Fred

You have to spend money to make money, it's called commerce.

Fratton Fred

I wonder how many people stuck the greens down as their second vote because they thought they were harmless.

cabrwab

I never stuck the greens down as being harmless, in fact i always saw them as the satanic cult they were going to become, pedalling global warming when anything needed doing.

This is disgraceful surely the 700 construction jobs alone would be worth it to have it built.

Sure planning laws need to be inforced an inforce them in a way of ensuring building regulations are met, not stopping construction.

Sure at the moment carrickmines is difficult to get to, put something there and it won't be!
There is public transport options available buses within walking distance.

Seriously revolt anybody

Morlar

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wonder how many people stuck the greens down as their second vote because they thought they were harmless.

The thing is, in effect he is using his ministerial position to circumvent the little fact that the green party were annihilated in the local elections and thus have no greens on the council anymore.

Greenshirt Democracy in action in my view. Between this and the incinerator shambles where he is also standing in the way of progress in spite of overwhelming approval & considering his non-handling of the winter weather crisis of a few months back, he really needs to take stock of the fact that they have about 2% -3% popular support. Hardly the thundering mandate you'd expect to be coming out with this ideologically driven counter-reality nonsense. They blabber on about the climate so often they have forgotten the ECONOMIC & Social Climate, the fact that hundreds of thousands are struggling RIGHT NOW not in 50 yrs time.

SerialComplaint

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that makes no sense.

Of course new jobs are created. Tesco (if they setup here) will not fire all they're Ballybrack staff to compensate :rolleyes:
The store would require x amount of staff which will be mgt moved from stores and training programmes and general staff newly hired. Most stores will be the same. The areas its in means its not really directly competing with any one other area for custom so while all surrounding areas may lose slightly none will lose massively, or enough to close.

So the spending that is going to happen in the new centre, where is that spending happening today?

dynamick

This rezoning is designed to create additional sprawl development outside the m50 at the edge of the city. The customers for any new retail will be drawn from the existing retailers, where else could they come from?

The purpose of the rezoning is to enrich the local landowners and to reward political supporters. The possibility of Frank Dunlop style bribery cannot be discounted. There is millions of euro at stake.

Building massive developer led, car-dependent retail parks at every motorway junction is the kind of planning that has led this country to the brink.

You have to wonder how RogueT expects to profit from this deal. It doesn't take much imagination. He makes 13 posts on the same topic in 4 different forums on the day he registers.

Cookie_Monster

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So the spending that is going to happen in the new centre, where is that spending happening today?

As per previous post

The areas its in means its not really directly competing with any one other area for custom so while all surrounding areas may lose slightly none will lose massively, or enough to close.

SerialComplaint

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

As per previous post

The areas its in means its not really directly competing with any one other area for custom so while all surrounding areas may lose slightly none will lose massively, or enough to close.

This centre won't generate any significant economic growth. If there were 800 jobs created (and generally these quoted figures are a work of fiction), then 750 of the jobs will be minimum wage part-time retail jobs. Any spending at this centre will displace spending at other centres, most of whom are struggling to keep their heads above water. We have a huge glut of unused retail space at the moment, and we have centres with existing planning permissions (like Phase 2 of Dundrum) not being built because the banks won't fund them.

A further new centre on the southside of Dublin will be a white elephant.

jpfahy

Any expansion in Carrickmines would sound the final death knell for Dun Laoghaire town centre which is failing badly at the moment.

melekalikimaka

its looking ll well and good now, but i cant see the place lasting 5 more years... it'll be a dump in no time imo

me-skywalker

Dun Laoghaire will still be viable because of the cinema, nightclubs, bars, restraunts and the food shopping markets.

Cannot see Cherrywood having any of these, although I did read somewhere that the Tesco in Ballybrack is goign to be moved upto Cherrywood.

Cherrywood is a much more viable option the Carrickmines as its got better access routes and more land to zone. WOrked up there for 4 years and its a dump still, roads are tiny, parking is crap and all there is is a Spar and a Subway.

Cookie_Monster

me-skywalker wrote: »

Cannot see Cherrywood having any of these, although I did read somewhere that the Tesco in Ballybrack is goign to be moved upto Cherrywood.

only false rumours, not going to happen. From the companies point of view the current location is too good.

Tabnabs

The latest update in this saga

COUNCILLORS IN Dún Laoghaire, south Dublin, are to attempt to overturn a zoning decision taken by them last month at the direction of the Minister for the Environment in the latest battle over retail development in the area.

The Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Development Plan 2010- 2016 comes into force today, but the process to change it could begin next week if a Fine Gael councillors’ motion to rezone The Park, Carrickmines, off the M50 motorway, is accepted.

Last month, after councillors rejected advice from John Gormley, the Minister directed them not to increase the retail zoning at The Park from 10,000sq m to 25,000sq m as part of the council’s development plan process.

He had said the rezoning would seriously compromise and undermine the Greater Dublin Area Retail Strategy.

Despite the legal status of the ministerial order, made under Section 31 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, councillors went ahead with a ballot to accept or reject the rezoning.

The ballot, on March 11th, was so close Fine Gael Cathaoirleach Councillor Marie Baker was forced to use her casting vote to ensure the Minister’s direction was followed. But some councillors were unhappy with the decision. They will attempt to change the zoning at a council meeting on Monday.

Fine Gael councillors Tom Joyce, Jim O’Leary, Barry Ward, John Bailey and Maria Bailey, along with Independent councillor Gearóid O’Keeffe, tabled a Section 140 motion to direct county manager Owen Keegan to vary the plan.

The variation will increase the retail zoning of The Park to 20,000sq m.

In their submission, councillors said the enlarged centre would provide local shopping, leisure and community facilities for Stepaside, Ballyogan and Kilternan, which have a planned population of over 30,000. And the additional 10,000sq m would not increase the overall retail space in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown because it would be taken from the planned Cherrywood town centre.

Mr O’Leary said yesterday councillors had drafted the variation themselves without the benefit of legal advice, but were confident it was legal. He said the Green Party had created a political issue out it.

“There is an element of the Greens creating a non-existent issue to wrap themselves in; their raison d’être that “you can trust us on planning”, but they are creating a non-issue at the cost of hundreds of jobs,” he said.

He said he was satisfied the rezoning was good planning and there were already tenants, including Tesco, ready to move in to the enlarged development.

A spokesman for Mr Gormley said it was Mr O’Leary who was attempting to politicise the issue. The Minister was acting on advice from planning experts within the department and from Mr O’Leary’s own officials.

“The intervention was based on evidence and not on claims and it is good for everyone, not just one developer or landowner. Developer-led planning is the type of planning that got us into the problems we have now,” he said.

source

dynamick

Fine Gael says "Sprawl=jobs"

In the 15 years up to 2006, the Dart capacity was greatly increased, the 46A/145 frequency greatly increased, the Luas was built, yet there was significant population decline in these public transport corridors such as along the DART through Killiney & Dalkey, bus route from Foxrock Church to DunLaoghaire, Kilmacud and areas West of the Luas, North of Dundrum.

Meanwhile car dependent population was exploding in the edges of the county, Kiltiernan, Tibradden, Loughlinstown, Rathmichael.

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/planning/DevPlan2010_2016/Population.pdf

I would like to see the council encouraging development in urban areas of population decline along public transport corridors rather than rezoning more and more sprawling rubbish in the countryside to please their developer friends.

This shows how the newly zoned sprawl areas designed by the council turn out, all of them look the same, soulless indentikit wasteful inhuman dumps with half the land allocated to roads and surface parking.

spyderski

SerialComplaint wrote: »

This centre won't generate any significant economic growth. If there were 800 jobs created (and generally these quoted figures are a work of fiction), then 750 of the jobs will be minimum wage part-time retail jobs. Any spending at this centre will displace spending at other centres, most of whom are struggling to keep their heads above water. We have a huge glut of unused retail space at the moment, and we have centres with existing planning permissions (like Phase 2 of Dundrum) not being built because the banks won't fund them.

A further new centre on the southside of Dublin will be a white elephant.

I agree completely. I happen to disagree with pretty much everything else John Gormley does, but in this instance he's 100% right. Dun Laoghaire County Council is the most incompetent local authority in the country - look at the latest development where they have got landed with €27 million worth of "affordable" housing which no-one wants to buy. They are trying to attract development to Cherrywood, which they have ended up pretty much owning through a mixture of incompetence & corruption, while ignoring the disaster happening in Dun Laoghaire itself. There will be no new jobs created in this plan (except some during its construction) if indeed its ever built given the current economy. This is spin from the council aimed at generating a public backlash to a "loss" of non-existent jobs. If successful it will at best lead to a few construction jobs, and then another wasteland of empty retail & residential units, to the detriment of an existing urban centre.