UK Proposes £30billion 250MPH high speed rail plan.

Run_to_da_hills

The British Government has revealed plans for a French style high speed rail network linking up major cities across the UK, I would be inclined to believe this as a publicity stunt by the Labour government leading up to the General Election and couldn't see it happen with current economic climate.

Could we see the same proposed in Ireland.

Daily Mail version

BBC

Noffles

LOl....:D

Ham'nd'egger

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The British Government has revealed plans for a French style high speed rail network linking up major cities across the UK, I would be inclined to believe this as a publicity stunt by the Labour government leading up to the General Election and couldn't see it happen with current economic climate.

Could we see the same proposed in Ireland.

Daily Mail version

BBC

When we have a city of about 8 million people and a city of about 2.5 million to link then we can re-open this thread.

Judgement Day

Hamndegger wrote: »

When we have a city of about 8 million people and a city of about 2.5 million to link then we can re-open this thread.

For once we are in agreement! Ireland has one City and several large towns.

Noffles

Judgement Day wrote: »

For once we are in agreement! Ireland has one City and several large towns.

And barely any infrastructure connecting them together.

Ham'nd'egger

Noffles wrote: »

And barely any infrastructure connecting them together.

On the contrary, Ireland isn't too badly off given out low population levels to shift around.

Dublin-Belfast has a motorway to the border along with dual carriage way in place or awaiting finishing from Newry onwards. The railway line is double track throughout and also links Newry and Lisburn, both of which are cities in their own right. Dublin and Belfast are the only two cities of large population on the island.

Dublin-Galway has a motorway throughout and a train line linking both together. There is about 70 buses a day on this route while Aer Arran fly this route. In a few weeks our friend the WRC will open giving it and Limerick yet another access route.

Dublin-Cork has a double track railway (one train an hour) and a complete motor way between both is not far off completion. Ryanair and Aer Arran also fly between these cities. Both roads and lines partially link to Limerick which has about one train an hour as well. Limerick also has access to Shannon Airport

Dublin-Waterford has a rail link and another largely completed motorway along with the N 11 providing an alternative route into the city and county. It has ferry access to Wales and France and large container traffic comes via Belview port.

Sligo/South Donegal has a decent road to and from Dublin, 8 trains a day and air access to and from the city while the N 17/18/20 link it to Cork via Galway and Limerick.

The only part of the country with poor access is north Donegal and west Cork/Kerry but even these areas have air access to and from Dublin; Derry,Donegal and Farranfore respectfully.

Stonewolf

Internally there are decent roads along the important routes in Donegal but there is no decent access into and out of the county (the road South to Sligo is dire and none of the roads through the North are any good unless you're going to the Northern part of the county).

Don't even attempt to mention trains in relation to Donegal, there are none. The closest being the Derry line which is in a different country and hardly represents any kind of direct connection from anywhere in the Republic (and is generally considered to be a quite poor service anyway). The airport in Donegal is in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the mountains from the populous parts of the county and isn't served by CIE at all, you're better off flying to Derry.

Getting back on topic, Ireland doesn't have the population for high speed rail. The rail service we do have is woeful though, we should concentrate on simply improving it to a level of service you'd expect from a modern Western nation. Even just getting it to be faster than taking the car would be good.

KevR

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The British Government has revealed plans for a French style high speed rail network linking up major cities across the UK, I would be inclined to believe this as a publicity stunt by the Labour government leading up to the General Election and couldn't see it happen with current economic climate.

Could we see the same proposed in Ireland.

Daily Mail version

BBC

They say it won't be starting until Crossrail has been completed in 2017. I would be inclined to think that they would be (falsely) promising an earlier start than that if it was entirely a stunt to win votes. Hopefully the economic climate will be much improved by then also.

dowlingm

The airport in Donegal is in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the mountains from the populous parts of the county and isn't served by CIE at all, you're better off flying to Derry.

Which is why the Irish government subsidises the Dublin-Derry air route I suppose...

Noffles

Hamndegger wrote: »

On the contrary, Ireland isn't too badly off given out low population levels to shift around.

Dublin-Belfast has a motorway to the border along with dual carriage way in place or awaiting finishing from Newry onwards. The railway line is double track throughout and also links Newry and Lisburn, both of which are cities in their own right. Dublin and Belfast are the only two cities of large population on the island.

Dublin-Galway has a motorway throughout and a train line linking both together. There is about 70 buses a day on this route while Aer Arran fly this route. In a few weeks our friend the WRC will open giving it and Limerick yet another access route.

Dublin-Cork has a double track railway (one train an hour) and a complete motor way between both is not far off completion. Ryanair and Aer Arran also fly between these cities. Both roads and lines partially link to Limerick which has about one train an hour as well. Limerick also has access to Shannon Airport

Dublin-Waterford has a rail link and another largely completed motorway along with the N 11 providing an alternative route into the city and county. It has ferry access to Wales and France and large container traffic comes via Belview port.

Sligo/South Donegal has a decent road to and from Dublin, 8 trains a day and air access to and from the city while the N 17/18/20 link it to Cork via Galway and Limerick.

The only part of the country with poor access is north Donegal and west Cork/Kerry but even these areas have air access to and from Dublin; Derry,Donegal and Farranfore respectfully.

All sound grand, so there are motorways (dual carraige) to all of these cities then...Well Dub-WAT not finished obviously, N11 not ever to be finished by the look of it... The road to Rosslare goes through the bottlneck that is Wexford... The South East has **** roads...

But any road that isn't finished surely isn't going to be completed any time soon.

But back on the topic, the country aint big enough for a rail link like that... simple as.

irishguy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The British Government has revealed plans for a French style high speed rail network linking up major cities across the UK, I would be inclined to believe this as a publicity stunt by the Labour government leading up to the General Election and couldn't see it happen with current economic climate.

Could we see the same proposed in Ireland.

Daily Mail version

BBC

Its just crying out for another 100km section to Dublin

SeanW

Where are the English going to get the money for this, the U.K. is already running a defecit (by GDP) worse than Greece at 13%.

amacachi

SeanW wrote: »

Where are the English going to get the money for this, the U.K. is already running a defecit (by GDP) worse than Greece at 13%.

They're not.

Run_to_da_hills

SeanW wrote: »

Where are the English going to get the money for this, the U.K. is already running a defecit (by GDP) worse than Greece at 13%.

Just like our inter-urbans, the EU will fund them the money and then hold them to ransom when they can't afford to pay It back.

amacachi

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just like our inter-urbans, the EU will fund them the money and then hold them to ransom when they can't afford to pay It back.

The EU are looking for all the money they gave us back? Didn't know that.

Steviemak

Noffles wrote: »

But any road that isn't finished surely isn't going to be completed any time soon.

Nearly all unfinished roads are due for completion this year.

Run_to_da_hills

amacachi wrote: »

The EU are looking for all the money they gave us back? Didn't know that.

One of the reasons so many in Ireland voted yes in the recent referendum is that they felt that they were obliged to do so because of all that the EU provided for this country. (Despite almost entirely wiping out our fishing industry).

amacachi

Nah, it's not worth an infraction.

Cool Mo D

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

One of the reasons so many in Ireland voted yes in the recent referendum is that they felt that they were obliged to do so because of all that the EU provided for this country. (Despite almost entirely wiping out our fishing industry).

We never had a large fishing industry in Ireland, even before the EU, so how did they wipe it out?

Lord Adonis said the project would create 10,000 jobs and yield £2 in benefits for every £1 spent.

He said the first 120 miles between London and the West Midlands would cost between £15.8bn and £17.4bn.

The cost per mile beyond Birmingham is then estimated to halve, taking the overall cost of the 335 mile Y-shaped network to about £30bn.

or we could do NAMA

Run_to_da_hills

Cool Mo D wrote: »

We never had a large fishing industry in Ireland, even before the EU, so how did they wipe it out?

What was ever left of it and its potential, you obviously weren't watching 6 / 1 news last week about the problem of abandoned trawlers around our coast.

monument

High speed is anything from 125 mph / 200 km/h upwards. High speed in Ireland would not need anything like 250mph (which is just over 400km/h).

Noffles wrote: »

But back on the topic, the country aint big enough for a rail link like that... simple as.

Indeed, the whole UK plan is for 630+miles of high speed line. Derry-Belfast-Dublin-Cork would be half of that. Just Belfast-Dublin-Cork less again.

But much lower high speeds could be of benefit to Ireland.

Hamndegger wrote: »

When we have a city of about 8 million people and a city of about 2.5 million to link then we can re-open this thread.

Or instead we could talk about a suitable high speed solution for Ireland.

Hamndegger wrote: »

On the contrary, Ireland isn't too badly off given out low population levels to shift around.

Dublin-Belfast ...The railway line is double track throughout and also links Newry and Lisburn, both of which are cities in their own right. Dublin and Belfast are the only two cities of large population on the island.

Double track throughout? It's funny you're trying to pass that off as a positive.

In the Republic alone, half is shared by Commuter services, about 50km. And about 35km is to be Dart in the future.

Dublin-Galway ... a train line linking both together ... Dublin-Cork has a double track railway... Dublin-Waterford has a rail link

Of what standard?

irishguy wrote: »

Its just crying out for another 100km section to Dublin

Dublin to Crewe is over 250km.

SeanW wrote: »

Where are the English going to get the money for this, the U.K. is already running a defecit (by GDP) worse than Greece at 13%.

This is long term planning.

dowlingm

If Crossrail gets done, now that High Speed 1 and the swishy 225km/h Class 395s is up and running, there will be a lot of engineering talent sitting around looking for something to do. It's not like in Ireland where we do big projects every 50 years and then let everyone die/emigrate and then wring out hands that it's so hard to get projects going, and if you persuade Joe Taxpayer to pay for something like Crossrail you've done pretty well on convincing him to pay for more of the same.

The challenge for IE is not Kildare Route and Interconnector - it's planning for the projects after that, to keep capital funding flowing for further improvements. Unfortunately, while important projects like increasing capacity on Maynooth-Mullingar, Connolly-Drogheda and Hazelhatch-Kildare lie idle, IE's engineers will be sent out to re-survey Claremorris-Collooney to keep politicians in press releases.

manc

monument wrote: »

Dublin to Crewe is over 250km.

but it would be great to link us to Britain, then we could (eventually) go all the way to Beijing in a few days

London to Beijing by rail in two days
http://www.financialpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=2660025