Lille v Liverpool

kryogen

didnt see any of the game

is there any sign that the players gave Benitez a reaction? i read his comments and he said it was a good performance, was it?

mayordenis

Mr Alan wrote: »

am i a neutral when i comment on united headshot?

He dislikes all of our player equally.

Mr Alan

it was a better performance than wigan, we were unlucky to lose and probably should have won.

kryogen

thanks, now i need an opinion on someone from the other end of the spectrum

good performance?

Headshot

mayordenis wrote: »

He dislikes all of our player equally.

Not all

I have a sweet spot for Benni

kryogen wrote: »

thanks, now i need an opinion on someone from the other end of the spectrum

good performance?

so so

SlickRic

kryogen wrote: »

thanks, now i need an opinion on someone from the other end of the spectrum

good performance?

he's fairly accurate with that description to be fair.

i'd rather say 'could've' than 'should've' though. Lille controlled much of the 1st half in particular, with Insua having a nightmare quite honestly.

not much is worse than the Wigan game though, so saying we were better than that isn't saying much.

i'd put tonight on a par with our Stoke away performance maybe.

Tusky

kryogen wrote: »

thanks, now i need an opinion on someone from the other end of the spectrum

good performance?

I'm gonna have to disagree with those saying it was a so-so performance. I thought we were predictable, easy to defend against and completely lacking flair. This wasnt Chelsea we were playing against, it was Lille who are 6th in the notoriously poor French league.

If you didnt know anything about football it would be difficult to spot which team was supposed to be the favorites.

One of the problems at Liverpool is we tend to match the opposition, which is great when you are playing Real Madrid or Manchester United, but not so good against Wigan or Lille. We end up playing at their level, rather than teaching them a lesson.

jank

Mr Alan wrote: »

openroad, we were not lucky with injuries last season, we were without skrtel, agger, torres and gerrard for long periods of the season. Its ok if you think we just overachieved, that's how i feel about arsenal this year.

Sorry but I dont buy that Arsenal have over achived this season. Look at the injuries they have had. They are 2 points off the top of the table and with a place booked in the 1/4 finals of the CL. The same was said about them two years ago when they almost won the league (They over achived!), then Flamini fecked off and it was a rebuild process again (4th place typical Arsenal level!). This season they supposedly over achived again! Ridiculous notion!

Off-field Arsenal are probably the best run club in world football!

I just think Liverpool fans expect way too much. The 70's/80's are over lads! If liverpools level is Europa league and a 6th place finish then so be it. Lots of clubs would gladly swap it for their own position.

mayordenis

jank wrote: »

I just think Liverpool fans expect way too much. The 70's/80's are over lads! If liverpools level is Europa league and a 6th place finish then so be it. Lots of clubds would gladly swap it for their own position.

Well firtly I know it's directed at someone elses comment about arsenal and I don't agree that Arsenal are over acheiving personally.

But the standards should work both ways, why is liverpools place all of a sudden 6th place and europa league after 1 season of bad football? when over the last 5 seasons we've challenged very well for the champions league on all seasons bar this one, and were pretty close in the title race.

But now 6th and europa league is where we belong? You're not making any sense.

oconnon9

Put plain and simply:

Liverpool are Muck..

That was hard to watch

K-9

mayordenis wrote: »

Well firtly I know it's directed at someone elses comment about arsenal and I don't agree that Arsenal are over acheiving personally.

But the standards should work both ways, why is liverpools place all of a sudden 6th place and europa league after 1 season of bad football? when over the last 5 seasons we've challenged very well for the champions league on all seasons bar this one, and were pretty close in the title race.

But now 6th and europa league is where we belong? You're not making any sense.

The last 5 seasons were flukes, don't you know, us punching above our weight! :rolleyes:

Whenever pool finish second or get to a CL Final or SF, its a fluke, over achieving.

mayordenis

Sorry almost forgot.

kryogen

last season imo you did overachieve, i have to be honest

regardless of whether thats true or not, i feel sure that the liverpool team has reached its the peak of its cycle last year and needs to be broken up and rebuilt

jank

mayordenis wrote: »

Well firtly I know it's directed at someone elses comment about arsenal and I don't agree that Arsenal are over acheiving personally.

But the standards should work both ways, why is liverpools place all of a sudden 6th place and europa league after 1 season of bad football? when over the last 5 seasons we've challenged very well for the champions league on all seasons bar this one, and were pretty close in the title race.

But now 6th and europa league is where we belong? You're not making any sense.

To be fair it isnt one season of bad football. Liverpool had a very good run last year. But other years they didnt challenge at all for a League title. By xmas most years it was all but over for them. Sure they had a good few runs in the CL but these papered over the cracks at liverpool more than anything else. It is of no surprise to me that liverpool are in this position. The style of football is muck and they have very little quality that other teams who would be serious contenders for the title.

jank

Oh and to be fair Arsenal have had quite a few good runs in the CL as well. OK they didnt win it but a semi last year with final a few years ago and they are always in the knockout stages. But you never see Arsenal fans pulling out that excuse for Wenger. We see his work on the pitch and the players he brings in and of course the style of football. For Rafa its the complete opposite A good run in the CL makes up for muck football and a ****e season in the league. Then people are surprise when he sells his most creative player that they are $hit all of a sudden?

x in the city

oconnon9 wrote: »

Put plain and simply:

Liverpool are Muck..

That was hard to watch

harder than watching your rents doing it....?

*see Wigan Vs Pool....

mayordenis

jank wrote: »

Oh and to be fair Arsenal have had quite a few good runs in the CL as well. OK they didnt win it but a semi last year with final a few years ago and they are always in the knockout stages. But you never see Arsenal fans pulling out that excuse for Wenger. We see his work on the pitch and the players he brings in and of course the style of football. For Rafa its the complete opposite A good run in the CL makes up for muck football and a ****e season in the league. Then people are surprise when he sells his most creative player that they are $hit all of a sudden?

See that's a misnomer, Arsenal and Barca don't get to decide what is considered good football. Now I won't defend how we are playing this season it has been ****e in all aspects.

I think you are truely wrong, you can't say "we don't bring out this excuse bla bla bla" when constantly trying to use the excuse of good football as means to deflect from poor results and a soft underbelly.
However for the last season for example we played a fantastic counter attacking brand of football that saw us top scorers in the league, quick short passing isn't the only "good football" out there. Effective, direct football can be equally entertaining, as can some of the absolutely heroic defensive games we've player over the benitez years.

This year pure cack no question but I think we've had a lot of very good football over the years.

kryogen

mayordenis wrote: »

See that's a misnomer, Arsenal and Barca don't get to decide what is considered good football.

Boo-Ya!!!

couldnt agree more

while lovely to watch most of the time it is not the only way of playing that deserves to be called "good football" or "football how it should be played"

(i am in no way endorsing the play of liverpool this season which has been......cack.)

K-9

kryogen wrote: »

last season imo you did overachieve, i have to be honest

regardless of whether thats true or not, i feel sure that the liverpool team has reached its the peak of its cycle last year and needs to be broken up and rebuilt

Maybe, Arsenal are this year then, a lucky 4th last year, flukey second the year before.

Or maybe, just maybe, pool have been steadily improving over the last few years and we lost Alonso, a key player.

Or does that not count for Liverpool?

Admittedly Gerrard is 29 now have to be replaced too, but every top 4 team goes through this, Arsenal the perfect example.

jank wrote: »

To be fair it isnt one season of bad football. Liverpool had a very good run last year. But other years they didnt challenge at all for a League title. By xmas most years it was all but over for them. Sure they had a good few runs in the CL but these papered over the cracks at liverpool more than anything else. It is of no surprise to me that liverpool are in this position. The style of football is muck and they have very little quality that other teams who would be serious contenders for the title.

We did ok, improved over the last few seasons.

jank wrote: »

Oh and to be fair Arsenal have had quite a few good runs in the CL as well. OK they didnt win it but a semi last year with final a few years ago and they are always in the knockout stages. But you never see Arsenal fans pulling out that excuse for Wenger. We see his work on the pitch and the players he brings in and of course the style of football. For Rafa its the complete opposite A good run in the CL makes up for muck football and a ****e season in the league. Then people are surprise when he sells his most creative player that they are $hit all of a sudden?

3 S/F's, 2 Finals, I winners and a Q/F. Whatever. Wenger is only there because of his history and track record. That doesn't apply to Pool and Rafa.

kryogen

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe, Arsenal are this year then, a lucky 4th last year, flukey second the year before.

Or maybe, just maybe, pool have been steadily improving over the last few years and we lost Alonso, a key player.

Or does that not count for Liverpool?

your missing my main point, i understand the defensive mentality but its misplaced right now

i agree there was steady improvement, but now i feel the cycle has ended. last season you had a great chance to win the league, i wouldnt like to say when that opportunity will come again

football teams go in cycles

Alonso leaving was a factor of course, a big one, but also the form/attitude of Gerrard/Carragher etc.

i stand by what i said, it does not apply to Arsenal in this discussion cause i am only talking about Liverpool, i have not said anything in relation to Arsenal and i am not going to in this thread

imo you reached the peak of your cycle last year and you must now rebuild and start again

K-9

kryogen wrote: »

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe, Arsenal are this year then, a lucky 4th last year, flukey second the year before.

Or maybe, just maybe, pool have been steadily improving over the last few years and we lost Alonso, a key player.

Or does that not count for Liverpool?

your missing my main point, i understand the defensive mentality but its misplaced right now

i agree there was steady improvement, but now i feel the cycle has ended. last season you had a great chance to win the league, i wouldnt like to say when that opportunity will come again

football teams go in cycles

Alonso leaving was a factor of course, a big one, but also the form/attitude of Gerrard/Carragher etc.

i stand by what i said, it does not apply to Arsenal in this discussion cause i am only talking about Liverpool, i have not said anything in relation to Arsenal and i am not going to in this thread

imo you reached the peak of your cycle last year and you must now rebuild and start again

I'd agree, but you can't just look at us in isolation to the top 4, indeed the top 8, to be fair.

We'd love one, just one Premiership, we aren't looking for world domination, unlike others!

Anyway, going way OTT here on a match thread. Rafa has an excellent record in Europe, barring this year. That isn't a fluke. Beaten United and Chelsea regularly in that time too.

There has been great memories and nights too and not all playing crap football!

x in the city

kryogen wrote: »

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe, Arsenal are this year then, a lucky 4th last year, flukey second the year before.

Or maybe, just maybe, pool have been steadily improving over the last few years and we lost Alonso, a key player.

Or does that not count for Liverpool?

your missing my main point, i understand the defensive mentality but its misplaced right now

i agree there was steady improvement, but now i feel the cycle has ended. last season you had a great chance to win the league, i wouldnt like to say when that opportunity will come again

football teams go in cycles

Alonso leaving was a factor of course, a big one, but also the form/attitude of Gerrard/Carragher etc.

i stand by what i said, it does not apply to Arsenal in this discussion cause i am only talking about Liverpool, i have not said anything in relation to Arsenal and i am not going to in this thread

imo you reached the peak of your cycle last year and you must now rebuild and start again

If I was a Pool supporter I would be as worried as a junkie waiting for his next fix, Gerrard is past his best, Torres will probably leave, Masch is not at his best,... zero monies...

They need a complete over haul, the fall from grace over the last year has been just lolz. Anyway.... the board of directors are the ones who sanctioned RaFa with the long term deal.

cantgetright

Its going to end a very poor season for pool, they should start building a team round lucas

jank

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe, Arsenal are this year then, a lucky 4th last year, flukey second the year before.

What was lucky about 4th last year?
Christ man Arsenal have been a top 4 team for the last 13 years!! 13!! Yet they finish 4th one year and its lucky?

K-9 wrote: »

3 S/F's, 2 Finals, I winners and a Q/F. Whatever. Wenger is only there because of his history and track record. That doesn't apply to Pool and Rafa.

Those stats are mutually inclusive. Also isnt it not surprising that you pull out the CL record but not the league record? Kinda my point isnt it. The good CL runs papering over the cracks.

And yes you are right, Wenger is there because of his track record, a record that he can create a consistent top 4 teams from scraps, and a title winning team too. Something that rafa could not do. I dont really see your point to be honest.

jank

mayordenis wrote: »

See that's a misnomer, Arsenal and Barca don't get to decide what is considered good football. Now I won't defend how we are playing this season it has been ****e in all aspects.

I think you are truely wrong, you can't say "we don't bring out this excuse bla bla bla" when constantly trying to use the excuse of good football as means to deflect from poor results and a soft underbelly.
However for the last season for example we played a fantastic counter attacking brand of football that saw us top scorers in the league, quick short passing isn't the only "good football" out there. Effective, direct football can be equally entertaining, as can some of the absolutely heroic defensive games we've player over the benitez years.

This year pure cack no question but I think we've had a lot of very good football over the years.

Touchy? I never said one was better at the end of the day. Wenger has been constantly criticized from his own fans and the media at large that he needs to be more pragmatic to win things. Even I have said it.

However, better to lose trying to play good football then lose playing $hit. Of course better yet to play $hit football but win and of course the ultimate accolade, win while playing the sexy stuff. Why do you think the Brazil team of 1970 is regarded as the best ever?

JimsAlterEgo

Johner wrote: »

15/8 for a Lille win looks value.

got 2-1 with 30, didn't trsut them enough so also had 20 on the draw.

Ush1

Another notch on French footballs belt for the season!:)

noodler

jank wrote: »

I just think Liverpool fans expect way too much. The 70's/80's are over lads! If liverpools level is Europa league and a 6th place finish then so be it. Lots of clubs would gladly swap it for their own position.

Wow.

Just wow.

mayordenis

mayordenis wrote: »

.
However for the last season for example we played a fantastic counter attacking brand of football that saw us top scorers in the league, quick short passing isn't the only "good football" out there. Effective, direct football can be equally entertaining, as can some of the absolutely heroic defensive games we've player over the benitez years.

I agree.

I would rather watch football played like pool did in the run in last season than Arsenals style any day. I find Arsenals style of football frustrating and I may be in the minority but I much prefer more direct football. I don't mean long balls although they do have their place at times (a thing Arsenal need to learn imo) but as said before the way we played in the run in. Really quick sweeping attacks catching teams on the hop game in game out.

K-9

jank wrote: »

What was lucky about 4th last year?
Christ man Arsenal have been a top 4 team for the last 13 years!! 13!! Yet they finish 4th one year and its lucky?








Those stats are mutually inclusive. Also isnt it not surprising that you pull out the CL record but not the league record? Kinda my point isnt it. The good CL runs papering over the cracks.

And yes you are right, Wenger is there because of his track record, a record that he can create a consistent top 4 teams from scraps, and a title winning team too. Something that rafa could not do. I dont really see your point to be honest.

Probably because you don't have one and I'm responding to it!

jank

K-9 wrote: »

Probably because you don't have one and I'm responding to it!

Wow, excellent debating skills there!

d22ontour

Mina Straight Steak wrote: »

I agree.

I would rather watch football played like pool did in the run in last season than Arsenals style any day. I find Arsenals style of football frustrating and I may be in the minority but I much prefer more direct football. I don't mean long balls although they do have their place at times (a thing Arsenal need to learn imo) but as said before the way we played in the run in. Really quick sweeping attacks catching teams on the hop game in game out.

The run in ? When Boro beat you it was over and nothing to lose time.You rolled almost everyone after that game for sure but to think that style of play which for 5/10/15/20 years has been unseen from a Rafa/Pool team to be better than Arsenals is baffling to be kind.Why wasn't the same mantra carried over to this season ? Arsenal can play attacking football season after season.You ain't played it for donkey years, why should a few end of season games last season make you think your couple of game gung ho attitude is better than a team that play offensively ?