Cork Council to use affordable housing stock for social housing

regress

Is this the end of Affordable Housing? Councillors in Cork City have given their approval to plans to allocate vacant houses in Affordable Housing estates for social housing. 50 houses in the following estates will be allocated to applicants from the social housing list within the next few months.

Ard na Ri, Banduff,
Kilbrack Lawn, Skehard Road,
Coppinger’s Acre, Bantry Park Road,
Hollyhill Heights, Hollyhill

The Council will also attempt to sell again 54 Iniatative houses in the below estates at a reduction of their 2007 valuations but above 2010 market value. However any unsold houses will then be used for social housing.

Ard Sionnach, Shanakiel,
Glentrasna Avenue, The Glen

This is in line with Minister Finnerans plans to slow any further downward correction in property prices by keeping unsold property off the market and away from the reach of lower paid workers.

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/corporateaffairs/minutesofordinarymeetings/Mins%20Council%20Meeting%20150210%20%28deferred%20from%20cm%20080210%29.pdf


Ard Sionnach 3 bed - Affordable price €210K
http://www.affordablehome.ie/My-Local-Authority/Cork-City-Council/Homes-Available-in-Cork-City/Ard-Sionnach,-Shanakiel-Cork.aspx

Ard Sionnach - 3 bed current market asking price €179K
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=499319

bladebrew

i dont know about the other estates mentioned but there was a huge demand for the affordable units in the kilbrack grove development,according to this thread

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=101162


kilbrack lawn as mentioned in your post in an older housing estate directly in front of kilbrack grove,

it is insane to think they are trying to sell affordable housing at €30k over the market value,and you cant sell on the affordable property for 10 years,i think there is a fee if you do manage to sell it?

shoegirl

It really galls me to think that the councils are willing to collude in artificially inflating prices. While I do think that there are lots of people on the housig list that are deserving, there are a lot of lower paid workers being crippled by high rents and very vulnerable in case of redundancy, to think that prices are being kept out of their reach.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

bladebrew wrote: »

it is insane to think they are trying to sell affordable housing at €30k over the market value,and you cant sell on the affordable property for 10 years,i think there is a fee if you do manage to sell it?

Correct, I think you will have to pay the council quite a lot. My sister would have to pay the council 60K for her house, if I remember correctly.

The councillors are scum, same with the governments plans... conmen and scumbags. What are they thinking?

regress

bladebrew wrote: »

i dont know about the other estates mentioned but there was a huge demand for the affordable units in the kilbrack grove development,according to this thread

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=101162


kilbrack lawn as mentioned in your post in an older housing estate directly in front of kilbrack grove,

I copied a mistake in the Council minutes. The Affordable Housing estate that will have vacant units allocated for social housing is Kilbrack Grove. Like other estates there was high demand and most houses were occupied. however due to Council actions some of the houses are now vacant.

shoegirl wrote: »

While I do think that there are lots of people on the housig list that are deserving, there are a lot of lower paid workers being crippled by high rents

at the moment it seems that the priority is to slow the fall in house prices and reducing the supply of available housing to first time buyers (primarily through NAMA hoarding new builds) is an integral part of this. and of course rents are being kept artificially high for lower paid workers by the €500,000,000 a year that the govt is giving to landlords in to rent allowance payments.

Ellison Few Umbrella wrote: »

Correct, I think you will have to pay the council quite a lot. My sister would have to pay the council 60K for her house, if I remember correctly.

The councillors are scum, same with the governments plans... conmen and scumbags.

The normal clawback payable if you sell within 20 years would be about 30K - 40K although 60K would not be unusual.

I agree fully with your accessment of Councillors. The corrupt and rotten scam which has resulted in 104 vacant houses could not have happened without their collusion and servile acquiesence.

shoegirl

regress wrote: »

rents are being kept artificially high for lower paid workers by the €500,000,000 a year that the govt is giving to landlords in to rent allowance payments.

That said, if landlords currently renting to RA assisted tenants are locked into long leases it will "fix" rents for those tenants/landlords but if housing lists are freed up through using NAMA properties to house those on the waiting list, especially if they are already renting elsewhere, it would immediately have the knock on effect of reducing rents. I suspect for that reasons, that won't actually happen. NAMA is trying to collect the debt, not grab the properties for state use. Whats more likely to happen is that the houses are leased out at high prices to the states but in small numbers and most of the RAS leases go to existing (slum) landlords already renting to RA tenants.

Thus the artificial competition will be kept up between self-paying working tenants and welfare recipients. The only way this would change is to force single tenants without dependents to share. This would dramatically change the face of the rented "market."

regress

shoegirl wrote: »

if housing lists are freed up through using NAMA properties to house those on the waiting list, especially if they are already renting elsewhere, it would immediately have the knock on effect of reducing rents. I suspect for that reasons, that won't actually happen.

agree that is a dilemma for the govt. it might be resolved by using leased new builds for social housing applicants that are not already in rent allowance accomdation or they could lease new builds but leave them empty. much of Cork City Councils affordable housing stock has now been kept empty for several years and just because they change its status from affordable to social doesn't necessarily mean that they will allow anyone to occupy them.

shoegirl wrote: »

force single tenants without dependents to share..

are you advocating a state matchmaking service. "single long term unemployed male GSOH and own teeth would like to meet rent allowance eligible single female with a view to sharing RAS apartment in Ballymun. If interested contact my community welfare officer"

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

regress wrote: »

The normal clawback payable if you sell within 20 years would be about 30K - 40K although 60K would not be unusual.

I could be wrong about this one, I would have to check it out and see. I will do so in due course

shoegirl

regress wrote: »

are you advocating a state matchmaking service. "single long term unemployed male GSOH and own teeth would like to meet rent allowance eligible single female with a view to sharing RAS apartment in Ballymun. If interested contact my community welfare officer"

No, I mean removing the distinction between the amount people get for living in self-contained units and shared houses which incentivises RA tenants to look for self-contained places as they get a higher allowance.

UK already does this by only allowing "sharing" levels of subsidy to benefits recipients under 25. They also had the habitual renting (6 month) rule in long before us. Basically most self-paying working tenants on low incomes tend to share rather than live alone. Why should even lower income RA tenants be "entitled" to more? Aside from anything else it would remove state interference from the market at that level which has encouraged and rewarded poor standards more than anything else, as there appears to be a strong correlation between subdividing houses and poor building standards.

denashpot

regress wrote: »

Is this the end of Affordable Housing? Councillors in Cork City have given their approval to plans to allocate vacant houses in Affordable Housing estates for social housing. 50 houses in the following estates will be allocated to applicants from the social housing list within the next few months.

Ard na Ri, Banduff,
Kilbrack Lawn, Skehard Road,
Coppinger’s Acre, Bantry Park Road,
Hollyhill Heights, Hollyhill

The Council will also attempt to sell again 54 Iniatative houses in the below estates at a reduction of their 2007 valuations but above 2010 market value. However any unsold houses will then be used for social housing.

Ard Sionnach, Shanakiel,
Glentrasna Avenue, The Glen

This is in line with Minister Finnerans plans to slow any further downward correction in property prices by keeping unsold property off the market and away from the reach of lower paid workers.

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/corporateaffairs/minutesofordinarymeetings/Mins%20Council%20Meeting%20150210%20%28deferred%20from%20cm%20080210%29.pdf


Ard Sionnach 3 bed - Affordable price €210K
http://www.affordablehome.ie/My-Local-Authority/Cork-City-Council/Homes-Available-in-Cork-City/Ard-Sionnach,-Shanakiel-Cork.aspx

Ard Sionnach - 3 bed current market asking price €179K
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=499319

This is my estate and I will be disgusted if they give a house out to social housing. :mad:

Could end up with the scum of the earth living by me.

jimmycrackcorm

Why - are all people on sw scum?

denashpot

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why - are all people on sw scum?

Who said they were?

I was saying I could end up with the scum of the earth living by me.

You should read the comment clearly before posting a reply. :rolleyes:

shoegirl

I hate to say it but the risk is rather high. I have lived mostly in houses divided up into flats over the last 11 years and seen a lot of welfare-assisted tenants. There does seem to be a particular mindset associated with insisting on renting despite it being an effective poverty trap. They are really 50/50 - although unfortunately a lot of the bad 50 are really no better than a human form of rat who makes other peoples lives miserable by their complete and utter lack of consideration for others. What I have seen over the last 11 years is sometimes unbelieveable.

I thought the welfare guy next door was ok but yesterday I was sweeping the patio and I can seen into his place and its literally infested in pilled up rotting rubbish bags. This isn't some old guy now, its a young lad in his 20s. Even the doorway to his patio is now surrounded by rotting plastic bags. Filth and squalor seems to be a particular problem with young lads living alone on RA - this about the 4th time I've seen this in 10 years.

Cookie_Monster

regress wrote: »

Ard Sionnach 3 bed - Affordable price €210K
http://www.affordablehome.ie/My-Local-Authority/Cork-City-Council/Homes-Available-in-Cork-City/Ard-Sionnach,-Shanakiel-Cork.aspx

Ard Sionnach - 3 bed current market asking price €179K
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=499319

So everybody else has taken a hit on property, but the council aren't going to. Thats madness selling trying to sell affordable housing so far above the market price

Liawyer

regress wrote: »

Is this the end of Affordable Housing? Councillors in Cork City have given their approval to plans to allocate vacant houses in Affordable Housing estates for social housing. 50 houses in the following estates will be allocated to applicants from the social housing list within the next few months.

Ard na Ri, Banduff,
Kilbrack Lawn, Skehard Road,
Coppinger’s Acre, Bantry Park Road,
Hollyhill Heights, Hollyhill

I'm not sure where you're getting the details about which affordable housing estates are going to be used for social housing? I can't find a reference to any specific estate in the Council minutes. The minutes simply state:

"A further disposal of 50 units under the Social Housing Leasing Programme is imminent. This will leave 54 units to be disposed of under the terms of the Affordable Housing Initiative"

regress

Liawyer wrote: »

I'm not sure where you're getting the details about which affordable housing estates are going to be used for social housing? I can't find a reference to any specific estate in the Council minutes. The minutes simply state:

"A further disposal of 50 units under the Social Housing Leasing Programme is imminent. This will leave 54 units to be disposed of under the terms of the Affordable Housing Initiative"

There are currently 104 vacant Affordable houses in the estates listed in the minutes. There are two types of AH in Cork City. Affordable Housing Scheme where the house is owned by the Council. The 50 vacant houses in the Scheme estates are now to be used for Social Housing.

The other type of AH is Affordable Housing Initiative where the houses are purchased from the developer using a loan from a bank. The 54 vacant houses in the Initiative estates will remain on offer for a while longer but in due course they will be leased by the Council from the developer for use as social housing.

There is a third type. Part V where a developer has to give 20% of housing in new estates to the Council but Cork City Council has allowed developers to buy their way out of this provision.


Affordable Housing Scheme

Dwellings under the 99 Affordable Housing Scheme will be offered for sale to the purchasers at cost price and accordingly, at a significant discount from the market value of comparable dwellings in the area. The purchase of the dwelling will be outright by way of a mortgage provided by the local authority. Where the property is sold before the expiration of 20 years from the date of purchase, a clawback provision will apply.


Affordable Housing Initiative

Dwellings under the Affordable Housing Initiative will be offered for sale to purchasers at cost price and accordingly, at a significant discount from the market value of comparable dwellings in the area. The purchase of the dwelling will be outright by way of a mortgage provided by one of three designated lending institutions. Where the property is sold before the expiration of 20 years from the date of purchase, a clawback provision will apply.

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/housingcommunity/housingloansandgrants/#affordablehousing

Liawyer

regress wrote: »

There are currently 104 vacant Affordable houses in the estates listed in the minutes. There are two types of AH in Cork City. Affordable Housing Scheme where the house is owned by the Council. The 50 vacant houses in the Scheme estates are now to be used for Social Housing.

The other type of AH is Affordable Housing Initiative where the houses are purchased from the developer using a loan from a bank. The 54 vacant houses in the Initiative estates will remain on offer for a while longer but in due course they will be leased by the Council from the developer for use as social housing.

There is a third type. Part V where a developer has to give 20% of housing in new estates to the Council but Cork City Council has allowed developers to buy their way out of this provision.


Affordable Housing Scheme

Dwellings under the 99 Affordable Housing Scheme will be offered for sale to the purchasers at cost price and accordingly, at a significant discount from the market value of comparable dwellings in the area. The purchase of the dwelling will be outright by way of a mortgage provided by the local authority. Where the property is sold before the expiration of 20 years from the date of purchase, a clawback provision will apply.


Affordable Housing Initiative

Dwellings under the Affordable Housing Initiative will be offered for sale to purchasers at cost price and accordingly, at a significant discount from the market value of comparable dwellings in the area. The purchase of the dwelling will be outright by way of a mortgage provided by one of three designated lending institutions. Where the property is sold before the expiration of 20 years from the date of purchase, a clawback provision will apply.

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/housingcommunity/housingloansandgrants/#affordablehousing

Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense now!

You just gotta love our local authorities. Always looking after the interests of the common man: and if those interests just always happen to coincide with those of the developers? Just coincidence!:rolleyes:

sok2005

As far as I know, clawback is scrapped for some units on sale by the AH now.

PS. Be they Social Housing Applicants or Private Buyers, you have roughly the same chance of not getting the neighbours you desire.

regress

interesting development in the County. In contrast to the City it seems they may be preparing to reduce the prices of their unsold stock to a level that would be affordable for lower income workers.

lahenchion

hey just new 2 this and living close 2 kilbrack lawn,, i am just wonderin is it true they are giving these 2 the social housing?? i have being on the housing list for almost 3 years now and i have a 3 year old son and my partner and me are both workin but cant afford a morgage at present,, i am not that well paid i would just love it if i could get a house in a lovely area and get housed before my son starts school so anybody know for sure if this is true?? thanks

Dudess

I thought random houses were always let by the local authority in private estates - why not in affordable housing ones?

lahenchion

i really hope this is true dudess i wil be ringing them anyway tomorrow:rolleyes:

lahenchion

shoegirl wrote: »

It really galls me to think that the councils are willing to collude in artificially inflating prices. While I do think that there are lots of people on the housig list that are deserving, there are a lot of lower paid workers being crippled by high rents and very vulnerable in case of redundancy, to think that prices are being kept out of their reach.

thanks for that shoegirl i have bein on the housing list nearly 3 years and i am in a job but dont get paid that much and same with my partner.. we have a 3 year old son and he wil b startin school in a year and a half i would just love if they considered me for housing!!

ricman

IN dublin if you are earning under 35k, you can apply to the council to give you a mortgage on any private house,or apartment ,under 200k price ANYWHERE in dublin.
I assume this is avaidable in cork, kerry etc from the local council.
You need to be in full time work.
IN dublin affordale housing has stalled cos they are actually more expensive 200k, then the private houses on the market .

buyerz2

From reading the minutes it does not state that any of the estates are going to have social leasing it simply states how many affordable housing in the City there is and how many they are looking to hand over to social leasing... Also none of the affordable housing have been handed over to social leasing or social housing in Cork City check out the AHI website which states which Local Authoritys have handed properties over maybe you should get your facts correct first regress instead of posting threads you obviously know nothing about...

MRBEAVER

I live in one of the affected estates and a NW FF Councillor has reluctantly confirmed to me that the plan is to use the vacant affordable housing for social housing. However it is understandable if other Councillors are trying to pretend that this is being done without their approval.

ricman

I Presume social housing is for people on the housing list,or old age pensioners.You can be working full time and still be on the housing list.

Freddie59

denashpot wrote: »

Who said they were?

I was saying I could end up with the scum of the earth living by me.

You should read the comment clearly before posting a reply. :rolleyes:

Precisely. I sympathise with your predicamenty. There are people, unforunately, who, when given something for practically nothing, never appreciate it. As one who was reared in a Council house, I can speak from both sides of the fence, so to speak.

We've seen the "problematic anti-social families" "disadvantaged families" moved around where I live and it's absolutely farcical. Every excuse made for their appalling behaviour, absolutely no thought whatsoever given to people they house them next to, trying to get on with their lives and behaving normally.

Having said that, we know of someone who had an absolute scumbag living behind them in a 'private' estate. Anti-social doesn't even begin to describe it.
But this person was 'depressed' so that made it OK.:rolleyes:

MRBEAVER

It is an issue for residents in my estate. we bought houses in what we were told would be an estate with only affordable housing. Now as a result of the Councils TCL policy many houses are empty and we are awaiting the arrival of the "disadvantaged families"

lollylainey

MRBEAVER wrote: »

It is an issue for residents in my estate. we bought houses in what we were told would be an estate with only affordable housing. Now as a result of the Councils TCL policy many houses are empty and we are awaiting the arrival of the "disadvantaged families"

I can understand your feelings about your estate,and the fear of who will be living next door to you,But my family you might consider disadvantaged
I work part time, my partner full time we have 1 child.
We rent at 750 a month,were turned down for AH.
so now we are on the social list for a house.
We don't claim any rent allowance etc.

So i think my family and a lot out there are disadvantaged ,
But isn't a house a basic human need ??

ricman

Thats what the housing list is for for familys ,single mothers , pensioners who cannot afford to buy a house on the open market.A mother needs to have at least 2 kids to get a house in dublin.I know council estates that are very quiet cos the average age is 25.Most of the kids have grown up.