Deus Ex: Human Revolution

Burgo

Im just hope somebody makes a mod that does something about the takedowns, they really are terrible.

hooradiation

The more people cry about the takedowns, the more I'm certain they'll actually be a good thing.

pixelburp

hooradiation wrote: »

The more people cry about the takedowns, the more I'm certain they'll actually be a good thing.

They're not, they make no logical sense, even within the context of augmentations in the gameplay. Why should I made wait for my battery to recharge, just to bash a guy over the head? I wouldn't mind if it was some super-enhanced power ala the xray vision or whatnot, but it's not: it's the same move that could be accomplished if the devs gave you a baton, or baseball bat ffs.

Kiith

Do we know that there isn't a standard way to knock people out, like with a baton or stungun type thing? I mean have the dev's said one way or another?

Duggy747

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVxq7rLUbJ8

joe123

Kiith wrote: »

Do we know that there isn't a standard way to knock people out, like with a baton or stungun type thing? I mean have the dev's said one way or another?

If you check back a few pages I've posted about what I thought after the beta. Loved everything but the takedowns. They are awful. And nope there's no normal melee button at all.

What I hate about the takedowns are they really break the immersion of the game. There is a mini cut scene EVERY time.

hooradiation

pixelburp wrote: »

They're not, they make no logical sense, even within the context of augmentations in the gameplay. Why should I made wait for my battery to recharge, just to bash a guy over the head? I wouldn't mind if it was some super-enhanced power ala the xray vision or whatnot, but it's not: it's the same move that could be accomplished if the devs gave you a baton, or baseball bat ffs.

Video games not making logical sense? oh my lord, someone alert the press!

When your criticism amounts to "I cannot fathom why what appears to be an unblockable, instant takedown has some kind of cost attached to it?" then I really can't say you're doing much to dissuade me that all this is nothing more than the typical Internet moaning.

Kiith

hooradiation wrote: »

When your criticism amounts to "I cannot fathom why what appears to be an unblockable, instant takedown has some kind of cost attached to it?" then I really can't say you're doing much to dissuade me that all this is nothing more than the typical Internet moaning.

I think the criticism is more "I cannot fathom why what appears to be an unblockable, instant takedown which has a cutscene ever time and is completely unnecessary, is the only way for me to smash someone over the head to knock them out."

Having the takedowns is fine, but having the takedowns as the only melee knockout method is not fine.

ShadowHearth

I checked preview in gttrailers.com

I can't say I am very hyped about it...

It looks okay I guess, but it wont be something that I will preorder.

Duggy747

One thing I love in FPS games is the ability to sneak up behind someone and bonk them on the head with something. There's that certain element of tension that you have to do it before the guy turns around or hears you.

The fact that I need batteries and a cutscene for this is and is the only option is baffling in this day & age of gaming.

pixelburp

hooradiation wrote: »

Video games not making logical sense? oh my lord, someone alert the press!

When your criticism amounts to "I cannot fathom why what appears to be an unblockable, instant takedown has some kind of cost attached to it?" then I really can't say you're doing much to dissuade me that all this is nothing more than the typical Internet moaning.

Uhm, no that's not what my criticism amounts to. Kiith already put it fairly well - the devs turned a standard melée attack into an unskippable cutscene, and attached battery cost to it as to intentionally hinder the player from avoiding weapon use. Given that (from what I saw) the only other nonlethal weapon - the dart gun - has feck all ammo available, it's an obvious contrivance to force players to shoot through situations.

And just from a player experience point of view, I found them extremely annoying after a while, and certainly broke you out of the moment.

Magill

Yeah i'll be honest, those melee cutscenes are ****ing stupid, i understand the cover system and can see it working quite well but the cutscenes are just gonna make me end up going all rambo after a while. I Dont understand the thinking behind it tbh, surely having a few first person animations as a backup so people could switch the cutscenes off would have been easy enough to do... The energy thing isn't really a problem imo, as im sure its their to make game progression more... progressive.. the further you get in the game the more you can invest into the skills/parts that increase stealth/energy regen etc. We'll have to see how it turns out but im still excited as FOOOK after see all those videos, the game seems to have that deus ex feeling to it.

Duggy747

I haven't played the prebuild game but I did see alot of the takedown animations on YT.

They looked pretty buggy, that would be obviously because it's a prebuild, but I couldn't help thinking how awesome they would've been had they kept the animations but left the view in first person.

ProjectColossus

Duggy747 wrote: »

I haven't played the prebuild game but I did see alot of the takedown animations on YT.

They looked pretty buggy, that would be obviously because it's a prebuild, but I couldn't help thinking how awesome they would've been had they kept the animations but left the view in first person.

And ditched the awful energy requirements which hugely hinders progress if you're trying to play stealthily.

Duggy747

The 1st Deus Ex is probably one of the only few games where I take the sneaky approach rather than go all Rambo.

Completed that game again earlier today and still thoroughly enjoyed it, 11 years later.

Now to try out The Nameless Mod for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feTT8erNInc

Somnus

ProjectColossus wrote: »

And ditched the awful energy requirements which hugely hinders progress if you're trying to play stealthily.

You could play stealthily without actually taking out enemies though? I'm replaying the frist one at the minute, and when I played it years ago I would have been going out of my way to take down everyone, but you can actually do nearly all the exploration without even attacking an ememy.

Also, taking down enemies in DX1 was a pain if you weren't using the riot prod! They'd always try and leg it.
I'm not 100% sure what I think of the takedowns. I'll have to actually be playing the game before I know. But they won't be a game breaker for me

ProjectColossus

Dr.Poca wrote: »

You could play stealthily without actually taking out enemies though? I'm replaying the frist one at the minute, and when I played it years ago I would have been going out of my way to take down everyone, but you can actually do nearly all the exploration without even attacking an ememy.

Also, taking down enemies in DX1 was a pain if you weren't using the riot prod! They'd always try and leg it.
I'm not 100% sure what I think of the takedowns. I'll have to actually be playing the game before I know. But they won't be a game breaker for me

I agree with you, I'll have to play it before I fully decide. However, while it may have been possible to play through the entire game without killing or incapacitating any enemies with the correct selection of augumentations (maybe, I don't know, that doesn't sound easy at all), there was still a number of ways to incapacitate someone if you needed to, riot prod, the dart gun worked well, there were gas grenades I believe, or you could just sneak up behind someone and whack them over the head with the riot stick. It was possible to do this without them getting away.

Lots of choices, lots of ammo types, or just a mele weapon if required. Freedom and options. Or you could just kill them.

However in Human Revolutions, it looks like your options for humanely dealing with foes, stealthily, is severly limited by this obnoxious limited use takedown mechanic. It looks crap, and it shouldn't be like this. That is the problem.

Somnus

ProjectColossus wrote: »

However in Human Revolutions, it looks like your options for humanely dealing with foes, stealthily, is severly limited by this obnoxious limited use takedown mechanic. It looks crap, and it shouldn't be like this. That is the problem.

I agree with you that the choice would be good. But I think being able to hit them with melee weapons ala dx1 would feel very dated. It wasn't a great system. Unless you had the combat strngth aug you couldn't take them down with one hit. Resulting in them trying to hit an alarm. It was a bit messy.
But I'm not disagreeing with you entirely.

And I believe DX:HR has a dart gun, maybe similar to the mini-crossbow

ProjectColossus

Dr.Poca wrote: »

I agree with you that the choice would be good. But I think being able to hit them with melee weapons ala dx1 would feel very dated. It wasn't a great system. Unless you had the combat strngth aug you couldn't take them down with one hit. Resulting in them trying to hit an alarm. It was a bit messy.
But I'm not disagreeing with you entirely.

And I believe DX:HR has a dart gun, maybe similar to the mini-crossbow

If takedowns are not the only way to knock someone out, it should be ok. So, a dart gun would be ideal. But I still think it should be possibly (difficult if you like, sure) to sneak up behind someone and knock them out. Like, you can do that in Metal Gear right? Choke someone out but not kill them. That would work.

So, allow a limited number of guaranteed to succeed takedowns, but also, allow a "manual" option, which the player can screw up (and the guy runs off and raises the alarm, like your baton problem in DE1). That plus darts or a taser or whatever. Bloody options, which Deus Ex is so famous for!

Again, the proof will be in the final version of the game. The devs are well aware that the community is saying this stuff, so they have the option to act upon it.

pixelburp

Dr.Poca wrote: »

I agree with you that the choice would be good. But I think being able to hit them with melee weapons ala dx1 would feel very dated. It wasn't a great system. Unless you had the combat strngth aug you couldn't take them down with one hit. Resulting in them trying to hit an alarm. It was a bit messy.
But I'm not disagreeing with you entirely.

And I believe DX:HR has a dart gun, maybe similar to the mini-crossbow

There is the dart gun, but there's feck all ammo available, leastways at the start. "My friend" that played the first hour of the leaked alpha found you ran out very quickly, especially if you try to take out as many goons as possible. When you snuck up behind a lacky, the fact you couldn't just bop him on the head, and had to either cutscene kill / knockout him, it just grated. Not enough to ruin the game; but when the world maps were covered in detritus & blunt objects, it was bizarre you had to resort to this convoluted method.

Somnus

ProjectColossus wrote: »

Like, you can do that in Metal Gear right? Choke someone out but not kill them. That would work.

So, allow a limited number of guaranteed to succeed takedowns, but also, allow a "manual" option, which the player can screw up

That's a great example actually. The Metal Gear style would work well.

pixelburp wrote:

There is the dart gun, but there's feck all ammo available, leastways at the start. "My friend" that played the first hour of the leaked alpha found you ran out very quickly, especially if you try to take out as many goons as possible.

Maybe they're trying to guide you away from taking on everyone if you want to be stealthy? But as ProjectColossus says, that would then be limiting choice.

When it comes down to it I guess they just messed up with the takedowns. Hoping they won't be too annoying

Kiith

I normally don't like live action trailers, but this one is very well done.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/sdcc-11-deus-ex/717717

figarofigaro

Kiith wrote: »

I normally don't like live action trailers, but this one is very well done.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/sdcc-11-deus-ex/717717

That was pretty good. It's actually a very interesting theme for a game.

DoesNotCompute

Burgo wrote: »

le bump ! getting close now, and i for one can't wait.

Another trailer in the mean time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9T6oi7j7D0

Looks good alright... Love the music in the trailer.

Is the big bad evil guy voiced by the same guy who did the voice for Bob Page in DX1 ? Sounds kinda the same.

Azza

Its perfectly viable to play non-leathal in DX-HR. The battery is a recharge system that's quite slow to recharge but it can be upgraded to make it recharge faster.

Its not mean't to be used as the sole non-leathal take down option, there is tazer guns etc and I did not find ammunation that limited for them. The melee take down system is mean't to be used in conjunction with the non violent weapons. You also have a viable option of just sneaking by and ignoring some enemys entierly.

joe123

First review is in.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/313559/deus-ex-human-revolution-pc-gamer-review-awards-94/

Im always sceptical about the first review that gets released especially a month before anyone else, still though its encouraging!

I really really really want this game to be brilliant.

Zero-Cool

Anyone have links to the review scans yet?

Is the beta still 'available' for download? Want to try it on my laptop first before deciding to buy it for pc or ps3

Mr. K

joe123 wrote: »

Im always sceptical about the first review that gets released especially a month before anyone else, still though its encouraging!

Everyone was suspicious when the same thing happened with Batman: Arkham Asylum in Gamesmaster two years ago; that review turned out to be on the money. That was an Eidos game too, so I wouldn't worry about it too much!

kearneybobs

Mr. K wrote: »

Everyone was suspicious when the same thing happened with Batman: Arkham Asylum in Gamesmaster two years ago; that review turned out to be on the money. That was an Eidos game too, so I wouldn't worry about it too much!

I'm tending to agree with you but let's not forget about the original scandal involving Eidos.

Mr. K

kearneybobs wrote: »

I'm tending to agree with you but let's not forget about the original scandal involving Eidos.

Forgot about that one! One hopes they've learnt from it though.