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Why are Irish people so ugly?
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59087
+1partyguinness wrote: »That is a terribly ignorant comment @sugarhigh. Do yourself a favour and read your Irish history
In a big way. Plus we preserved much of the Latin canon that would otherwise have disappeared forever. The european church was preserving some stuff, in small pockets, but it was sporadic, open to attack from various tribes and they were only interested in religious texts. We went from an oral tradition to a literate one in very short order and fell in love with it and we translated and copied everything and anything we could get our hands on, including a load of classical texts. Much to the disaproval of visiting churchmen from europe who came to study here down the line.Ireland from the 5th to 12/13th century a European centre for religious and cultural learning. The Brehon Law syetem with it's equal opportunities to women and complexitity was far more advanced and liberal than the Common law system that the English brought in. A lot of what we know about the 'Dark Ages' is thanks to the work of Irish scholars.
That's equally too broad a stroke too in fairness. After rome fell britain was in trouble. The saxon invasions hit them hard too, but there still existed some vestiges of rule and education. St Patrick a roman britain/celt came from an educated romano christian background.Britain in particular was a barbaric society and they reduced us to their level.
Well we brought christianity and writing to the scots and further south(replaced the original languages of scotland with gaelic to boot). The english like to say augustine convertered them, but he was a bit late to the party.There was a good documentary out last year about how the Irish educated the English and they introduced reading and writing to the masses in Britain.
+1. after rome fell the notion of codified law in western europe took a major hit.Not only were the Brehon Laws some of the most advanced in Europe,
Lithuanian would be older. Greek, while differing from classical Greek would be a pretty old continually spoken language alright. Basque being outside the indo european language structure is very old. Possibly an isolated fossil of languages spoken at the fringes of europe before the indo european languages inc Irish came in.but only Greek and Latin are older than Gaelic in European languages. That's just because Latin is still the official language of the Vatican.
More and more I would be blaming the norse/french, if blame is required. For most of the issues that befell these islands. Later generations just took up the banner. On both sides. The inhabitants of these islands when the romans invaded britain were pretty much the same mix of peoples. What we might call "celtic" today. The welsh, the scots and yes the english too. After rome legged it, the saxons invaded east britain and moved the celts further west, but the saxons were actual celts from mainland europe(who it seems never made it here in any great numbers previously, only their culture).It was the English during the 15/16th centuries that destroyed the monastries, the flight of the Earls, Penal Laws etc etc and general policy of oppression and brutality that set Ireland back hundreds of years.
Then came the Normans to finish what the vikings started. People forget they butchered the english(inc the english themselves). Massively dispossessed them. The english are proud of magna carta, but its a norman french document. It was centuries after the invasion before an english king could even speak the language of those he ruled over. All the while they were fighting with other normans, sometimes from the same families in france. They came here too, but integrated way more than in britain. So at the back of it all its the bleedin scandinavian french.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59087
Never mentioned once that they didWell we brought christianity and writing to the scots and further south(replaced the original languages of scotland with gaelic to boot). The english like to say augustine convertered them, but he was a bit late to the party.
no not all scottish people come from here.. my family came over here from scotland and before that they came from england.. infact its only areas in the highlands which would desend from ireland..
. But genetically, you're more likely to get gene exchange between Ireland and Scotland between the (eastern) lowlands and coastal areas than in the highlands. Which is what has been found in the gene studies Ive read. Actually it's hard to work out the differences, mostly because Ireland, Wales Scotland and northern England populations are very very similar with similar ancient roots. They likely came over at the same time after the ice retreated and exchanged genes back and forth through trade along the seaboards including as far south as france and spain. The neolithic culture common to such regions would suggest that too.
Further east and south in Britain you get more Saxon genes and in the north of scotland the viking. The further west you go in Ireland the more the older genes show up. In general the peoples of these islands are pretty closely related dropping off as you go south and east.
The Greeks and Romans noted this waaaay back. Ptolemy's map referenced tribal names that were shared with scotland and britain, even south east britain. Caesar and the roman writers said the same. The very name Scotland is pretty much latin for irishland or more correctly gaelic land. The connection was so strong that in the middle ages actual Irish types would add the word "Eriugena" to their name to denote the difference(often because Irish scholars were in the highest demand in mainland europe. EG Johannes Scottus Eriugena, one of the first real novel philosophers of the early middle ages*. If he was Scotish John he would be Johannes Scottus, but as he is "Irish John" the extra bit was added.
The irony shows up the most in Ulster. A lot of the planters were scots protestants, who had originally gained the religion they fought over with the locals from the same locals and back and forth that relationship went, genetically and culturally.
*He's worth reading more on. Hes the guy who usd to be on the old irish fiver. the ugly bald guy(back on topic
:D)Clever clever bastid. Influenced many later thinkers. Was massively distrusted by the roman church and after his death various popes tried to expunge him from history. Burning his books and the like. Which in of itself is enough to recommend the bloke. Good sense of humour, if wicked. As an epitaph on the death of some anti irish french bishop whose name escapes he wrote(from my baad memory) "Here lies X a crook, but evil greed aside, he did one noble thing, he died". On the píss with the Holy roman emperor the same asked Johnno "what separates a moron from an irishman?". "Only this table" says our Johhno Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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