N40 - Cork South Ring Bandon & Sarsfield Flyovers

spacetweek

stiimpreza1984 wrote: »

Looking forward to when they opened be a lot less hassle with traffic, makes you think why didnt they upgrade it to an M40 and make a motorway it will be a great road once the flyovers are done, there changing all the signs now so what would stop them in just making them blue and up the limit to the 120kph lets face it the road from the tunnel all the way to Emc in Ballincollig is great maybe the funds were not available to upgrade to a motorway but what would they have needed to do? paint a continuous yellow hard shoulder line move the cats eyes to the right and eventually install the sos phones you would be at your destination even faster then and we get to call it a motorway:D the only problem I can see is the eastbound traffic at the tunnel how will the dunkettle interchange cope we all seen when the kinsale flyover was completed after awhile the tunnel traffic to build up and build up wonder when they will do that project for the dunkettle?

Already discussed but basically upgrading to Motorway isn't as easy as you make it sound. Changing the signs and road markings is only a small part of it. The road has a lot of things that would prevent it being a motorway, close junctions and Dunkettle being the two biggest ones.

veryangryman

M8 is Motorway all the way up to Dunkettle. Its very inconsistent - e.g Galway M6 ends at Oranmore as the next exit westbound is a roundabout.

So whats happening with that stretch?

Motorway today (M8)
Ring road downgrade (N40)
Eventual (i think) upgrade of whole route (M40)


Alot of money wasted on temp signage as far as i can see

AugustusMinimus

I think the limiting factors on motorway implementation in Ireland are a bit over talked about.

Close junction, lack of a hard shoulder etc etc in my mind limits a motorway to 100kph but doesn't preclude it from actually being a motorway.

I would hope that once the NRR and Dunkettle is done, that the entire stretch will become the M40. Will be years though.

KevR

veryangryman wrote: »

M8 is Motorway all the way up to Dunkettle. Its very inconsistent - e.g Galway M6 ends at Oranmore as the next exit westbound is a roundabout.

So whats happening with that stretch?

Motorway today (M8)
Ring road downgrade (N40)
Eventual (i think) upgrade of whole route (M40)


Alot of money wasted on temp signage as far as i can see

I don't think the roundabout is the reason why the motorway ends at Oranmore. It's the Galway Bypass - the bypass would require a motorway order if the M6 continued past Oranmore. Apparently, getting planning permission for a motorway is more difficult than permission for a "HQDC" which is why a lot of our motorways were initially built disguised as DCs. They can redesignate the N6 West of Oranmore after construction has started on the Galway BP.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

I don't think the roundabout is the reason why the motorway ends at Oranmore. It's the Galway Bypass - the bypass would require a motorway order if the M6 continued past Oranmore. Apparently, getting planning permission for a motorway is more difficult than permission for a "HQDC" which is why a lot of our motorways were initially built disguised as DCs. They can redesignate the N6 West of Oranmore after construction has started on the Galway BP.

It should also be noted that a motorway cannot end at a roundabout. IIRC (from the 1 time I've used it) the M8 finishes a little bit before Dunkettle.

Part of the reason that the stretch of road between Doughiska & Glennascaul is not designated motorway is to allow it be used to help eastbound traffic. Otherwise restricted traffic would have to use the old N6, making traffic there a bit heavier than it needs to be.

Stark

The M9 ends at a roundabout. The reason the M8 ends a little before Dunkettle is to allow for access to the Gaelscoil and business park for non-motorway traffic.

icdg

antoobrien wrote: »

It should also be noted that a motorway cannot end at a roundabout. .

Of course it can. The airport spur of the M1 (which was for many year the terminus of the mainline) ends at a roundabout. The M50 ended at various roundabouts at various points during its construction. The M2 ends at a roundabout. Not sure where you got that idea.

ardmacha

Originally Posted by antoobrien
It should also be noted that a motorway cannot end at a roundabout.

The M1 in Belfast ended at a roundabout for 45 years, although the roundabout did get bigger in that time.

L1011

M11 ends at a roundabout. M18 sort-of does - motorway restrictions do anyway. M3 ends at a roundabout...

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I would hope that once the NRR and Dunkettle is done, that the entire stretch will become the M40. Will be years though.

It certainly will be, because as they've just spent loads of money replacing all the signs, they'll want to get their money's worth out of them for a while at least before replacing them all again.

MYOB wrote: »

M11 ends at a roundabout. M18 sort-of does - motorway restrictions do anyway. M3 ends at a roundabout...

Ending at a roundabout isn't unusual in the UK either. In the Netherlands, ending at a roundabout is considered to be a "non-motorway feature" and they've a policy of eventually correcting all of these. As of last year, I think they removed the last few.

neddynasty

Progress Update 30:

N25 Bandon/Sarsfield Interchanges Upgrade
Progress Update
Wednesday 23rd May 2012

Both eastbound and westbound traffic has been diverted on to newly constructed traffic lanes in the Bandon Road area over recent weeks. Following on from these works construction of the new bridge at the eastern side of the Bandon Road Roundabout is now well underway. The attached photograph shows final
preparatory works being completed for the base of the structure and construction of the columns will follow on over the coming days. Construction of the eastern approach ramp to the new flyover at the Bandon Road Roundabout is also underway and these works will become visible to motorists over the next few days.

A similar process will now get underway in the Sarsfield Road Roundabout area. New traffic lanes for traffic heading east from the Sarsfield Road Roundabout are currently under construction and these works will be completed over the next few days. Traffic in this area will be restricted to one lane from about 10p.m. on the nights of Thursday 24th May 2012 and Friday 25th May 2012 to facilitate these works. Two traffic lanes will be available as normal during day time hours on Friday 25th May 2012 and the new layout for traffic heading east from the Sarsfield Road Roundabout will be fully in place by early morning on
Saturday 26th May 2012. Motorists are asked to pay particular attention to roadwork signage over the next few days while these works are progressed.

A further significant increase in construction activity in the Sarsfield Road Roundabout area generally is likely over the coming months. Updates will continue to be issued in the normal way as the various items are progressed.

The piling works currently ongoing in the southern side of the Sarsfield Road Roundabout have taken significantly longer to complete than originally anticipated. However, this element of piling works should reach completion within the next 3 weeks and, in overall terms it is still hoped that the target completion date of July 2013 will be achieved.

As always, those with queries or concerns in relation to any aspects of the works set out herein can contact us on 021-4969280 or 021-4965830 during working hours or on the freephone helpline number 1800 932 046 at any time. Those who are interested in obtaining regular progress updates as the various schemes progress should register their email address with us at n25@ccc-site.com.

Wild Bill

spacetweek wrote: »

Ending at a roundabout isn't unusual in the UK either.

The M11 terminates at both ends at a roundabout! :cool:

tharlear

The M11 terminates at both ends at a roundabout

On the M3

Does the motor way not actually end at the sign which indicates the "end of the motorway" which is about 200m short of the roundabout?

sign indicates motrways ends 500m

then there's a 80KPH speed limit sign, just after that there's a "not a motorwayts sign"

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=53.715428,-6.89038&spn=0.000025,0.024118&sll=56.800878,15.820313&sspn=29.152514,98.789063&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.715656,-6.890872&panoid=Sg80aGdKIhXEGc1lG_Qgag&cbp=12,311.19,,0,-2.72
then a roundabout sign with 200m written under it.


On the M11 at the junction with the r761 there is also a "not a motorway sign"

Stark

Unless there's some way for non-motorway traffic to enter in those 200m, then it's still motorway even if the signage guys got their measurements wrong.

L1011

The signs aren't placed precisely, mainly because they'd not be much use if they were on the very edge of the roundabout.

antoobrien

MYOB wrote: »

The signs aren't placed precisely, mainly because they'd not be much use if they were on the very edge of the roundabout.

Trying to find the regulations but I remember seeing somewhere that a motorway must end 1km before a roundabout.

L1011

antoobrien wrote: »

Trying to find the regulations but I remember seeing somewhere that a motorway must end 1km before a roundabout.

If such a regulation exists here, it has never been followed. As shown on the thread, as many of our motorways end on roundabouts than don't

munchkin_utd

antoobrien wrote: »

Trying to find the regulations but I remember seeing somewhere that a motorway must end 1km before a roundabout.

from what I can see, these here are the Irish road design specifications
http://nrastandards.nra.ie/road-design-construction-standards

which are essentially only a small set of deviations from the UK design guidelines here :
http://www.dft.gov.uk/ha/standards/dmrb/index.htm

for the life of me I cant find anything on motorway design but maybe someone else knows the docs better and can find the relevant section.

dubhthach

Folks can we keep the thread on topic, though interesting posting about signage in here is slightly tangential, perhaps a new thread?

SeanW

Hey guys, one question;

There seems to be a slip road from the Westbound outer carriageway of this plan, directly into Dunnes Stores car park.

That would be very handy for me and a few others no doubt, but somehow it looks too good to be true.

Could anyone tell me what the purpose of that sliproad is?

SeanW

N40 Eastbound from the Sarsfield Road Roundabout is now running on what will eventually be the sliproad.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.876663&lon=-8.502143&zoom=18&layers=M

Could someone with an OSM accont please make a note of the change?

DerMutt

SeanW wrote: »

Hey guys, one question;

There seems to be a slip road from the Westbound outer carriageway of this plan, directly into Dunnes Stores car park.

That would be very handy for me and a few others no doubt, but somehow it looks too good to be true.

Could anyone tell me what the purpose of that sliproad is?

I think that's exactly what it's going to be. It would eliminate the need for local access traffic to go through the roundabout which will already be busy enough with Bandon/Bishopstown/CIT traffic.

N40 Eastbound from the Sarsfield Road Roundabout is now running on what will eventually be the sliproad.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51...om=18&layers=M

Could someone with an OSM accont please make a note of the change?

Done.

AugustusMinimus

What I can't understand is at the Sarsfield roundabout.

Why aren't they putting in seperate sliproads for left turn movements in order to take more traffic off the roundabouts. There's plenty of space there say for the movement for South Link Road West to Doughcloyne to be done via a sliproad.

Ludo

AA roadwatch just tweeted:

From tonight, westbound traffic on the South Ring Rd approaching Sarsfield Rd R/A will be directed onto new traffic lanes approx. 300m from the roundabout. This is in place until Sept/Oct.

AugustusMinimus

Presume it's to clear the centre section in order to the build the eastern ramp for the flyover ?

Any guesses how long before all traffic will be diverted from the old centre line road on the section between both roundabouts ?

neddynasty

A bit late.

Progress Update 31:

N25 Bandon/Sarsfield Interchanges Upgrade
Progress Update
Friday 1st June 2012

Piling works will continue over the June Bank Holiday weekend in the area south of the Sarsfield Road Roundabout. However, no online works are proposed and no traffic restrictions will be in place over the holiday weekend.

A significant alteration to the traffic layout will however be implemented overnight on the night of Tuesday 5th June 2012. Westbound traffic approaching Sarsfield Road Roundabout (i.e. traffic approaching Sarsfield Road Roundabout from the Kinsale Road Roundabout side) will be directed on to new traffic lanes approximately 300m from Sarsfield Road Roundabout. The existing number of traffic lanes will be maintained in the new traffic layout which should ensure that there will be no disruption to traffic flow. Motorists are however requested to adhere strictly to the speed limits currently in place noting that the Traffic Corps of An Garda Síochána will be monitoring speeds throughout the works area.

In preparation for the switch over on Tuesday night it is likely that a section of the right turn lane on approach to Sarsfield Road Roundabout will be closed to traffic during daylight hours on Tuesday 5th June 2012. Again however this should not cause any delay as there will still be several hundred metres of the
third lane available immediately adjacent to the Sarsfield Road Roundabout.

The new layout is required to allow access to the works area adjoining the Elmvale Estate and the Headlands Apartment Complex. It is expected that the temporary layout will be in place until September/October 2012 and further updates will be issued if lane restrictions are required in this area over the coming months.

As always, those with queries or concerns in relation to any aspects of the works set out herein can contact us on 021-4969280 or 021-4965830 during working hours or on the freephone helpline number 1800 932 046 at any time. Those who are interested in obtaining regular progress updates as the various schemes progress should register their email address with us at n25@ccc-site.com.

neddynasty

Progress Update 32:

N25 Bandon/Sarsfield Interchanges Upgrade
Progress Update – Reminder
Tuesday 5th June 2012

Motorists are reminded that new traffic lanes will be in place for westbound traffic approaching Sarsfield Road Roundabout from Wednesday 6th June 2012. The enabling works required to bring the new lanes into use will be carried out overnight tonight and the new arrangement is expected to be fully operational by 6a.m. on tomorrow Wednesday 6th June. The new layout will be in place for a number of months and you are requested to pay particular attention to lane discipline and to the speed limit through the works area
while the new layout becomes established.

As always, those with queries or concerns in relation to any aspects of the works set out herein can contact us on 021-4969280 or 021-4965830 during working hours or on the freephone helpline number 1800 932 046 at any time. Those who are interested in obtaining regular progress updates as the various schemes progress should register their email address with us at n25@ccc-site.com.

murphym7

Ludo wrote: »

AA roadwatch just tweeted:

From tonight, westbound traffic on the South Ring Rd approaching Sarsfield Rd R/A will be directed onto new traffic lanes approx. 300m from the roundabout. This is in place until Sept/Oct.

Nearly caught me out this morning, like a chicane!:)

Still can't believe at how little disruption this whole build has caused - zero to me so far and I travel either way through both roundabouts every day, fantastic job.

Zonda999

When is now due for completion? I know its meant to be another 12 months officially but I think works are progressing faster than anticipated? It would be great if it was finished before Christmas

neddynasty

Zonda999 wrote: »

When is now due for completion? I know its meant to be another 12 months officially but I think works are progressing faster than anticipated? It would be great if it was finished before Christmas

I think it'll take close to the 12 months to finish. I really don't have a clue but I reckon it'll take another 3 months to complete the Bandon flyover. They haven't really started the above ground works on the Sarsfield flyover and that looks trickier. I reckon that'll take at least 9 months. So in conclusion we're talking 9-12 months before it's completed. Just to re-iterate, I'm completely guessing but it's how long I reckon it'll take.