Dimension 9200 general upgrade

Didihno

Hi all,

I'm starting the process of upgrading my trusty Dimension 9200 to give me another couple of years of service.

The next PC I get I am going to build myself from scratch.

I enjoy upgrading and tweaking PC's in general and have done it several times in the past, so I know my way around the basics.

Here is the basic system:

C2D E6500, MEMORY DUAL-CHANNEL 4096MB [4X1024] 667M, HARD DRIVE 500 GB (2X250GB) SERIAL ATA , VIDEO CARD 256MB NVIDIA GEFORCE 8600 GTS.

Here are my planned upgrades:

C2Q Q6600, DDR2 8 gigs [4x2] 800M, Hard Drives 1x500gb (WD Caviar Green 7200) & 1x2TB WD Cavair Green 7200), Video Card need recommendations.

So far I have flashed the Bios to latest version (noproblem), I then broke the raid and removed one of the 250s, installed the 2tb beast (no problems), then removed the other 250, installed the 500 and installed W7 64bit on this (no problems except I had to contact Windows support because when I broke the raid it wiped both drives and WVista but I only bought W7 upgrade doh!, but credit Microsoft they gave me a workaround and its registered now).

I picked up a Q6600 on ebay for a steal and it looks very clean. I also picked up 2x2gigs Kingston 6400 800m (1.8v) ram (will get more later).

So this weekend I plan to first install ram and see if it works, then install chip and see if it works (all of this should work with current mobo and PSU?).

Finally I want to upgrade my Graphics and this is my problem, its a real area of weakness in my knowledge and there are just so many Gcards out there, what do I go for? I haven't upgraded the stock Dell mobo or PSU, but I haven't ruled that out if totally necessary and yes I realise that would basically be a completely different system!!! I would like to have the option of playing top games but this is mostly about me learning how to, to I'm not a 'progamer' or anything yet!!! I'm not ruling out Overclocking the Q6600 in the future, but for now all I want is to upgrade.

So, what graphics cards can I support? Have I gone about it right so far? All input is welcome!

massy086

can u post ur service tag on that 9200 you sure it will take the q6600 thats a Pentium cpu you have in it

54kroc

massy086 wrote: »

can u post ur service tag on that 9200 you sure it will take the q6600 thats a Pentium cpu you have in it

The Q6600 definitely works in the 9200.

lmimmfn

its only penryns that would have an issue on old mobos, q6600 will work on all mobos supporting core 2

OP for a gfx card, im guessing that psu in your rig is junk, post a pic of the sticker or list out the max wattage and voltage on the rails( lol, just give all the details you read off it )

For low powered gfx cards the 5770 is a great card and will be wayyyyy faster than that pos 8600gts

Didihno

Yeah i've read up on the C2Q6600 and if will defo work, apparently its the fastest chip I can put in this mobo. The Q6700 is hit and miss apparently, and a lot more expensive.

Regarding the GPU is that the ATI Radeon 5770 you are refering to?
Does the brand matter?

RE: PSU I haven't opened the pc yet, too busy this morning but it should be the stock 375w PSU supplied with all these dell 9200 units. I'll post sticker details when I open her up.

54kroc

Didihno wrote: »

Regarding the GPU is that the ATI Radeon 5770 you are refering to?
Does the brand matter?

Once you get a good warranty you should be fine,I always buy Sapphire branded cards when going Ati.
There about the best imo.

Solitaire

The 305W is good, but the 375W is better. Those things are built like tanks! And it should let you run a mildly OCd Q6600 and a HD5770 in there together no bother.

lmimmfn

Didihno wrote: »

Yeah i've read up on the C2Q6600 and if will defo work, apparently its the fastest chip I can put in this mobo. The Q6700 is hit and miss apparently, and a lot more expensive.

Regarding the GPU is that the ATI Radeon 5770 you are refering to?
Does the brand matter?

RE: PSU I haven't opened the pc yet, too busy this morning but it should be the stock 375w PSU supplied with all these dell 9200 units. I'll post sticker details when I open her up.

yes its the ATI 5770 i was on about, there all reference cards so other than warranty/support thats all that will distinguish them( apart from a handful which have better stock coolers ).

I dont know, if your psu is only 375w rated then it will be very very tight to run a 5770, if you look at this chart - http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?showtopic=264
The 8600 consumes about 52W-58W non overclocked, and a 5770 consumes about 100W, its only a 42W difference but the q6600 will consume more power than a dual core and youre probably tight as it is.

Post the PSU info and we'll take a look, but if it were me id replace the psu you have with a 500W corsair one( probably around 55euro ). Thats the general problem with Dell, theyre fine for the hardware they come with but when you want to change things theres either not enough space, psu needs to be replaced or both which increases upgrade costs.

You could also go with a lesser gfx card, but the 5770 is actually quite a low powered card( for mid range ) but its performance is excellent, and if you have a better psu the 5770 can overclock easily to nearly 5850 stock performance.

Heres some gfx card performance charts - http://www.guru3d.com/article/vga-charts-december-2009/5, your current card would be approx the same speed or slower than the slowest there which is an nvidia 220

Solitaire

Did you check the 9800GT on that chart? :P

By comparison many people have been running that and OCd P4/PD/65nm C2D CPUs off the 305W Delta for years. I'm guessing the 375W Delta (or is that one a HiPro model?) will just shrug a Q6600+HD5770 combo off without even noticing. Bear in mind those PSUs are "modern" SMPS units, not manky old 5V-based full-analog units!

massy086

Solitaire i love what you know about psu.s(but there again wat u dont know is,nt wort knowing)LOL but can a dell psu really work out that well ????????????

Solitaire

Not 100% sure but I'm pretty certain Dell Dimension 9200s and some XPS machines come with Delta N375P-00 PSUs with 30A on the 12V rail. We're talking very similar quality and capacity as a Corsair CX400 here, not some old Gateway P4 hulk! :P

Yeah, a CPU rated for 95W TDP (but very rarely hitting it unless OCd!) and a HD5770 would be a bit of a squeeze on the Delta 305W (22A) but on the N375P it has enough room for a jacuzzi and swimming pool!

Say in a fairly rigorous multithreaded game (i.e. not Crysis!) you'd be talking 6.5A for the CPU, 6.5A for the GPU and say ~3A for the rest of the system('s 12V power usage) so long as you don't have 58 HDDs in there That's 16A, roughly half the PSU capacity and thus in the optimum performance zone Even at no-holds-barred full tilt (say Crysis or OCCT with Prime95 in the background!) you're talking 8A for the CPU, 9A for the GPU and say 4A for the system. That's ~21A sustained (not momentary) peak load, which needs to be under the 90% capacity mark. Is it 27A? Nope, just 21A. Well within the safe boundaries. Unless the PSU was already well on its way to the great fireworks party in the sky this kind of setup isn't even going to make it blink.

lmimmfn

^^Its still very very tight :P

I looked at the 9800GT, and if there are guys using them with Q6600's fair enough, however anyone respecting their hardware would pair it with a semi decent psu.

8800GT requires 26amps( full system not just the gfx card ) on the 12v rails, the 9800GT is an 8800GTS so would require approx 28, the 5770 prob only needs 28 max but prob only 26, the Dell psu would prob manage it but i would not recommend it.

I realise people go over the top on psu's but theres also the issue of trying to squeeze too much ouf of a psu. Ive had a psu blow on me, luckily it was a decent psu, while the dell ones are quite good i wouldnt trust them when maxed out.

Solitaire

Err... didn't you read any of the above?? :P We're staying the hell away from maxing the PSUs!

The proposed setup will only push the PSU to ~50% of its capacity while gaming and ~70% under torture. This is pretty much the optimum PSU (well, maybe a 400-450W unit with 32-35A would be perfect, but this 30A unit ain't far off!) for the job. Sticking in a 550W 41A beastie would be overkill. Sticking in a 52A 650W PSU would be plain bonkers!

And a 8800GT "needs" 26A on the 12V rails on a rig with a 130W TDP CPU and a small fileserver in the back for SnG. Oh, and I'm pretty sure a 9800GT is a die-shrunk 8800GT, not 8800GTS. It should need a bit less power than the 8800GT. Guess they included an extra-large RAID5 array in that calculation! :rolleyes:

Didihno

First up thanks to all for the help so far!

I managed to get a pic of the PSU for ye:

Didihno

Well, click click bang bang new cpu and 4g ram installed.
Ran cpu-z and got this:

Looks ok to me, how can I test if the chip is running properly?

I also got a bit of a shock when installing the ram, the old sticks were much bigger (taller) than the new ones.
I check the cpuz tab for the ram:

It says here the ram is running at 400mhz, is that right? I thought it was 800mhz (Kinstgton pc6400) ram? (probably a really stupid q that).
Anyhoo both sets of ram have registered and seem to be running fine, 4gb total.

Solitaire

For the CPU, try running Prime95 on all cores to check stability and check CPU-z again during the run - it should show 2.4GHz (x9 mult). The reason its showing a x6 mult in that screenie is because you're not doing anything intensive with it, so thanks to SpeedStep it drops back down a notch (or three) and idles quietly to itself

As for the RAM, its DDR2 so running at 400MHz gives an effective speed of 800MHz

lmimmfn

Solitaire wrote: »

For the CPU, try running Prime95 on all cores to check stability and check CPU-z again during the run - it should show 2.4GHz (x9 mult). The reason its showing a x6 mult in that screenie is because you're not doing anything intensive with it, so thanks to SpeedStep it drops back down a notch (or three) and idles quietly to itself

As for the RAM, its DDR2 so running at 400MHz gives an effective speed of 800MHz

just to add to that, prime 95 torture test along with coretemp or realtemp( just to ensure the temps are fine ).

q6600 + 5770 = 200W( extra with any OC ), not much left if the capicators have a 10-15% degrade :P

Solitaire

Q6600 + HD5770 = 200W if Priming and Furmarking simultaneously! :P Gaming use shouldn't exceed ~160W too often unless OCd. And the limit on this PSU's 12V rails is 360W! :rolleyes: If there was a 15% degrade that's still 306W on those rails! :P

BostonB

What was the spec before and after and do you have any benchmarks that show the difference in performance?

Didihno

I'll run prime 95 and see what happens, and coretemp too.

That was such a noob question about the ram speed.:o

Previous spec of this machine was pretty good too:

C2D E6500 2.4 ghz, 4gb Ram 667mhz, Geforce 8600 gts 256mb, 500gb HD

I just wanted better and now I have:

C2Q 6600 2.4 ghz, 4gb Ram 800mhz, Geforce 8600 gts 256mb, 2.5TB HD

To be upgraded now I am getting rid of that 8600 in favour of the recommended 5770, priced in pcworld yesterday at €189, I'm sure I can do better than that! Also another 4gb ram just because!

The Omen 666

Hi Didhino

Can i ask u where u got the flash for the motherboard in the 9200, i know dell had them locked down for O/C so i would love to know where u got it, also my 9200 mobo only supports 4gb of ram...did the mobo flash increase the amount of ram u can accomodate!

Forgie me if these are really noob questions, i was thinking of upgrading my 9200 or building a new one, my budget for a new build was 700 and for that i was getting:
Intel Core i5 750 2.66Ghz , Coolermaster CM-690 II Advanced Dominator Case - Black, Asus Xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-Express Sound Card (90-YAA055-1UAN00Z) Corsair 4GB (2X2GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMV4GX3M2A1333C9) Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (HD103SJ) Corsair TX 750W PSU


but i might be able squeez a bit more life out of the 9200, currently have a saphire radeon 4850 in it and i get good playable frame rates for any of my games, maybe not on max but no probs playing

Didihno

Hi Omen,
I don't remember where I got the bios flash, might have been dells site. I have the file though and can email it to you if you want (PM me your address).
I updated the bios to accommodate the new chip.
Basically for this upgrade I have been reading many forums (fora?!!) and upgrading to 64 bit W7 was all I thought I had to do to accommodate more than 4gb ram, I'll have to check up on the mobo spec now if that's a problem.
D

The Omen 666

my 9200 / xps 410, think it went by 2 names.. is about 3 yrs old and when i went to upgrade my ram, crucial did a check in the mobo and max was 1gb per slot... if urs is newer it may not apply to yiou. I know that 32 bit windows won't show the full 4gb ( 3.6 or something ) but 64 bit will show more but only if ur mobo supports more ram, it would be worth checking as i am gonna build my own for that reason, ofcourse if the mobo flash allows me to put more ram in i may not have to

i have a new thread with my new build on it aswell

Didihno

The Omen 666 wrote: »

my 9200 / xps 410, think it went by 2 names.. is about 3 yrs old and when i went to upgrade my ram, crucial did a check in the mobo and max was 1gb per slot... if urs is newer it may not apply to yiou. I know that 32 bit windows won't show the full 4gb ( 3.6 or something ) but 64 bit will show more but only if ur mobo supports more ram, it would be worth checking as i am gonna build my own for that reason, ofcourse if the mobo flash allows me to put more ram in i may not have to

i have a new thread with my new build on it aswell

Sure my pc is the same age.
The thing is most of these online checks go by manufacturers info, which is often wrong believe it or not.
For example is I was able to upgrade the fook out of my in laws acer laptop despite their own website saying rubbish like 'only 2gb ram supported' and the max chip supported being the one that was in it already (a really really bad celeron).
A few internet forums later and the laptop now has a low end core 2 duo and 3gb ram, working like a dream.
All I had to do was flash the bios and install the ram in a certain order.
Trust these ubergeeks here more than the manufacturers websites man, they only want to make money (of course!). These guys know what they are about.

The Omen 666

Didihno wrote: »

Sure my pc is the same age.
The thing is most of these online checks go by manufacturers info, which is often wrong believe it or not.
For example is I was able to upgrade the fook out of my in laws acer laptop despite their own website saying rubbish like 'only 2gb ram supported' and the max chip supported being the one that was in it already (a really really bad celeron).
A few internet forums later and the laptop now has a low end core 2 duo and 3gb ram, working like a dream.
All I had to do was flash the bios and install the ram in a certain order.
Trust these ubergeeks here more than the manufacturers websites man, they only want to make money (of course!). These guys know what they are about.

Think i'll have a closer look and not be 2 trustin in the info from sites like crucial for the reasons u mention on of course getting us to spend more etc...


Some more reading me thinks..thanks for the info

Solitaire

Didihno wrote: »

To be upgraded now I am getting rid of that 8600 in favour of the recommended 5770, priced in pcworld yesterday at €189, I'm sure I can do better than that!

Pixmania have 1GB HD5770s under €130. Tried posting that hours ago but got cut off when Boards went down

Didihno

Solitaire wrote: »

Pixmania have 1GB HD5770s under €130. Tried posting that hours ago but got cut off when Boards went down

Yes I'm on pix right now.
I hate giving these w@@kers business have had terrible customer service) but its very tempting.
I'm only dithering on whether to go for the fancy cooling on the vapor-x card or do I need to?

Solitaire

Don't think the stock cards are that noisy but if you really need silence then go for it

Didihno

Solitaire wrote: »

Don't think the stock cards are that noisy but if you really need silence then go for it

Nah, to hell with that!!!
I'll just order the €130 one.
Any preferences between:
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/4129647/art/pixmania/radeon-hd-5770-1-gb-gddr5.html#tech-specs
And:
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/4122063/art/sapphire-technology/radeon-hd-5770-1-gb-gddr5.html#tech-specs

Solitaire

The cheaper one is a random cheap HD5770. The second is the revised Sapphire one with the new cut-down cooler. Which is actually a lot better than stock, the only issue is that it can't exhaust the hot air out of the back of the case like a fully-shrouded one can.

Didihno

Solitaire wrote: »

The cheaper one is a random cheap HD5770. The second is the revised Sapphire one with the new cut-down cooler. Which is actually a lot better than stock, the only issue is that it can't exhaust the hot air out of the back of the case like a fully-shrouded one can.

OK I'll order that one then!

I ran Prime for 10 hours today and it reported no errors whatsoever, max temp during that time was 59'c. Maybe I should run the torture setting?

I'll hopefully only have to make one final update to this thread when I get the card installed, and it will be to confirm everything worked (touch wood), but so far so good.

My major thanks to all who took the time out to help me. Top people.