Now Pope linked to child abuse cover-up

Biggins

Carry wrote: »

That's Theo Ratzinger, the pope's older brother, not that Ratzinge rwho is pope.
Just to clarify.

I know, its just background info to the whole affair. The pope can't claim to distance himself from either what he did or didn't do, about what humans can do to each other like for example; what his very own brother was capable of. Its all related to how he has seen peoples pain and how he dealt with it.
The pope is currently trying to put PR distance between himself and the things that went on surrounding him.
How can he do this when they are so close to home in a number of ways - despite what their Rome media department is trying to do at present by putting spin on it by the popes own actions!
He can't just stick his head in the proverbial sand and say "well these things happened somewhere far off - nothing got to do with me - I was better than that!"

Carry

Biggins wrote: »

I know, its just background info to the whole affair. The pope can't claim to distance himself from either what he did or didn't do, what humans can do to each other like for example; what his own brother was capable of. Its all related to how he has dealt with peoples pain and how he dealt with it.
"

Yes, I understood that it was just another drop in the barrel. His brother was infamous for being a raging bull, according to German newspapers ("Der Spiegel") throwing chairs at renitent boys/young men. if they weren't compliant - to whatever...

I am just wondering... What about all those priests and missionaries who were transferred to the Third World? Bringing the Happy News of Jesus to the "Little Black Babies"? Whatever could they do to those who don't have a voice?

I'm shivering, no, raging, by the thought of it...

Ultravid

Carry wrote: »

Yes, I understood that it was just another drop in the barrel. His brother was infamous for being a raging bull, according to German newspapers ("Der Spiegel") throwing chairs at renitent boys/young men. if they weren't compliant - to whatever...

I am just wondering... What about all those priests and missionaries who were transferred to the Third World? Bringing the Happy News of Jesus to the "Little Black Babies"? Whatever could they do to those who don't have a voice?

I'm shivering, no, raging, by the thought of it...

Corporal punishment was very common back then. Monsignor Georg Ratzinger did not sexually abuse anyone and for you to suggest that he did is wicked and malicious.

You also spitefully dismiss all the good work that so many priests and religious have done for so many people around the world for so long and continue to tirelessly do so.

Teclo

I'm just sick of this. The pope is now to the media what Osama Bin Laden is to US special forces, its all a war with an agenda that goes far beyond any concern for children. The way The Irish Independent and The Times reported this is disgraceful, accuracy and fairness have no place today in these matters. Just put up a scary headline and drop in the customary Andrew Madden quote 'he should consider his position'.

Carry

Ultravid & Teclo:

It's not about the christian faith or any faith as such, it's not about good people who try their best to better the world - it's about an organisation which doesn't care about those who they claim to care about.
They only care about themselves and claim to be god-like.

Please try again to read my original posts and try to distinguish between faith, being a good human being and a power-hungry organisation which would do anything - even if it's illegal and/or against human rights - just to keep up appearances and stay in power.

thebman

Teclo wrote: »

I'm just sick of this. The pope is now to the media what Osama Bin Laden is to US special forces, its all a war with an agenda that goes far beyond any concern for children. The way The Irish Independent and The Times reported this is disgraceful, accuracy and fairness have no place today in these matters. Just put up a scary headline and drop in the customary Andrew Madden quote 'he should consider his position'.

So raping kids and hiding it is fine as long as its the religion you support?

Interesting :rolleyes:

Scofflaw

Carry wrote: »

Yes, I understood that it was just another drop in the barrel. His brother was infamous for being a raging bull, according to German newspapers ("Der Spiegel") throwing chairs at renitent boys/young men. if they weren't compliant - to whatever...

I'm a little concerned that you're making a defamatory comment about a named individual there.

moderately,
Scofflaw

gimme5minutes

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm a little concerned that you're making a defamatory comment about a named individual there.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Yep, you are dead right, boards is highly likely to be litigated now that he made that 'defamatory' remark. Can moderators not stop sticking their oar in at every opportunity on boards.ie these days, jesus. It is such a pain in the hole to constantly have mods butting in to issue warnings and notes over feck all.

ultravid wrote:

You also spitefully dismiss all the good work that so many priests and religious have done for so many people around the world for so long and continue to tirelessly do so.

Eh, actually no. What good have they done? The only reason they ran schools is so they could indoctrinate kids and maintain their firm grip on society. All the money they 'spend on the poor' actually came from the public through donations - the priests didn't earn this money, it's the average joe that goes out and works hard to make the money and then the cult (Catholic Church) comes and relieves him of a % of it through 'collections' every week.

Not to mind that they have always taken a nice healthy cut off the top of these donations - hence why the church is wealthy beyond belief.

Carry

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm a little concerned that you're making a defamatory comment about a named individual there.

moderately,
Scofflaw

What is defamatory here? I quoted a newspaper report which is quoting witnesses. Read here (if you can ):
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,683368,00.html

Auch Chorchef Georg Ratzinger, der Bruder von Papst Benedikt XVI., wurde von ehemaligen Domspatzen als "extrem cholerisch und jähzornig" erlebt. So habe Ratzinger noch Ende der achtziger Jahre bei Chorproben erzürnt Stühle in die Männerstimmen hineingeworfen. Einmal habe sich der Domkapellherr so erregt, dass ihm sogar das Gebiss herausgefallen sei. Der 86-jährige Ratzinger wollte sich dazu nicht äußern.

No reason to be concerned. The s.h.i.t. hit the fan already for the church.

ei.sdraob

Carry wrote: »

What is defamatory here? I quoted a newspaper report which is quoting witnesses. Read here (if you can ):
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,683368,00.html


No reason to be concerned. The s.h.i.t. hit the fan already for the church.

its interesting that the incompetent Irish media are keeping quiet about this story, with only this making front-page > http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cardinal-brady-is-sued-by-victim-of-serial-abuse-priest-2098868.html

while my friend in Italy tells me the pope story is all over their news channels

Biggins

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its interesting that the incompetent Irish media are keeping quiet about this story, with only this making front-page > http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cardinal-brady-is-sued-by-victim-of-serial-abuse-priest-2098868.html

while my friend in Italy tells me the pope story is all over their news channels

Not the first time this week/last week alone.
While the rest of Europe is reporting the found prostitution racket in the Vatican - the Irish media?

Nothing. :rolleyes:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/03/05/gay-sex-scandal-at-the-vatican/

Something that they said was NOT going on as far back as '06

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-1490.html/

So much for their words and how much trust one can put in them coming from the popes office!

Furious-Dave

gimme5minutes wrote: »

It is such a pain in the hole to constantly have mods butting in to issue warnings and notes over feck all.

Well actually that's their job. Here on Boards we're not allowed to even mention the name of some clubs because people let their mouths run off out of control. All it takes is one idiot to say something false or unfounded about someone and Boards could have legal issues to deal with.

Anyway, back on topic.

Eh, actually no. What good have they done? The only reason they ran schools is so they could indoctrinate kids and maintain their firm grip on society. All the money they 'spend on the poor' actually came from the public through donations - the priests didn't earn this money, it's the average joe that goes out and works hard to make the money and then the cult (Catholic Church) comes and relieves him of a % of it through 'collections' every week.

I'm atheist and I don't like organized religion, for reasons already mentioned on this thread. But there is a lot of good that priests have done in communities. Atheists and others like to blabber on about how Christians forced their faith on everyone, but they like to overlook true facts about it. There was a time, in Africa for example, where non-Christians were being wholesale slaughtered by the various different armies around. The missionaries had no choice but to convert the locals in order to save them. Now, this is just third hand information that a Catholic friend pointed out during one of our drunken religious debates.

On another note, perhaps now would be the perfect time for the real* Illuminati to resume their activities

*By real I mean the society of scientists who opposed the power of the Vatican. Not the Satan worshiping bullcrap you see over on CT.

Furious-Dave

What I said above was so important I had to say it twice. D'oh!

Amtmann

Auch Chorchef Georg Ratzinger, der Bruder von Papst Benedikt XVI., wurde von ehemaligen Domspatzen als "extrem cholerisch und jähzornig" erlebt. So habe Ratzinger noch Ende der achtziger Jahre bei Chorproben erzürnt Stühle in die Männerstimmen hineingeworfen. Einmal habe sich der Domkapellherr so erregt, dass ihm sogar das Gebiss herausgefallen sei. Der 86-jährige Ratzinger wollte sich dazu nicht äußern.

Just a translation for those interested:

Also choir leader Georg Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI's brother, was described by several choir singers as "extremely choleric and hot-tempered". Even in his 80s he threw chairs at singers during practice. Once he was so enraged that his false teeth fell out. The 86-year-old Ratzinger did not want to comment.

Scofflaw

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Yep, you are dead right, boards is highly likely to be litigated now that he made that 'defamatory' remark. Can moderators not stop sticking their oar in at every opportunity on boards.ie these days, jesus. It is such a pain in the hole to constantly have mods butting in to issue warnings and notes over feck all.

I'm awfully sorry it's such a pain in your hole. Here. take a week off, and see if you feel any better.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Carry wrote: »

What is defamatory here? I quoted a newspaper report which is quoting witnesses. Read here (if you can ):
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,683368,00.html


No reason to be concerned. The s.h.i.t. hit the fan already for the church.

Unfortunately, that's not correct. Your post makes a suggestion about Ratzinger that is not in the Der Spiegel article. It's the "compliant - to whatever" bit that does it.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Ultravid

Carry wrote: »

Ultravid & Teclo:

It's not about the christian faith or any faith as such, it's not about good people who try their best to better the world - it's about an organisation which doesn't care about those who they claim to care about.
They only care about themselves and claim to be god-like.

Please try again to read my original posts and try to distinguish between faith, being a good human being and a power-hungry organisation which would do anything - even if it's illegal and/or against human rights - just to keep up appearances and stay in power.

I share this background reading, I hope it is useful >>>

Welcome to the true Catholic Church. This is the pain of it all. Once you have had your eyes opened to the truth, then you see that hardly anyone else understands—or even desires to understand—the truth.

The Church is infested with demons in sheep’s clothing. It began with Judas Iscariot himself, and it will continue to the end. It’s a bit like that science-fiction movie from the 1950s, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That seemingly nice usher back there—is he or isn’t he? That seemingly devout woman praying the Rosary over there—is she or isn’t she? The priest at the altar—is he or isn’t he? The bishop himself—is he or isn’t he?

full piece: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_thanks.htm

and this:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm

and this addresses priestly abuse directly:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_pedophilia.htm

I share these links because I too am horrified by what has happened to the innocent at the hands of some priests, but am also dismayed at how the true Church is wrongly vilified. Only by reading those pages can the uninitiated, for the want of a better word, begin to understand the full picture, and see that none of this actually undermines the true faith nor gives any reason for anyone to walk away from the Church, despite the sadness of it all.

Hagar

Ultravid wrote: »

I share these links because I too am horrified by what has happened to the innocent at the hands of some priests, but am also dismayed at how the true Church is wrongly vilified.

Your so called "true Church" gave shelter to the offending priests and has done so methodically over years and years. They were moved from one parish when complaints were made against them to another unsuspecting parish time and time again by the "true Church". They were protected against legal action by the influence of the "true Church" and by the fear the "true Church" engendered in its followers. You taught people to fear their God of love. You are not servants of God, you are servants of worldly power. There is nobody being wrongly villified, you are being justifiably villified.

Ultravid wrote: »

Only by reading those pages can the uninitiated, for the want of a better word, begin to understand the full picture, and see that none of this actually undermines the true faith nor gives any reason for anyone to walk away from the Church, despite the sadness of it all.

The problem is we all see the full picture now and we are no longer afraid of your priests with their two faced mumbo-jumbo. We will no longer tolerate your abuse of our children. You will pay the reckoning, you have gambled your "true Church" on our fear and you have lost. Never again will people give you their trust. You will pay the price for your arrogance. You will reap the whirlwind as your own Book says.

People of "true faith" do not need intermediaries to act between them and their God. I'm would guess you God is prepared to deal with his faithful one-on-one. I'm equally sure he will deal with thise who have committed these heineous crimes in his name.
It's a lot of work for one busy God so we should help him out and start punishing those degenerates in this life, He can take over when they die.



* You = the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church, not the individual poster quoted.

Ultravid

69 wrote: »

Your so called "true Church" gave shelter to the offending priests and has done so methodically over years and years. They were moved from one parish when complaints were made against them to another unsuspecting parish time and time again by the "true Church". They were protected against legal action by the influence of the "true Church" and by the fear the "true Church" engendered in its followers. You taught people to fear their God of love. You are not servants of God, you are servants of worldly power. There is nobody being wrongly villified, you are being justifiably villified.



The problem is we all see the full picture now and we are no longer afraid of your priests with their two faced mumbo-jumbo. We will no longer tolerate your abuse of our children. You will pay the reckoning, you have gambled your "true Church" on our fear and you have lost. Never again will people give you their trust. You will pay the price for your arrogance. You will reap the whirlwind as your own Book says.

People of "true faith" do not need intermediaries to act between them and their God. I'm would guess you God is prepared to deal with his faithful one-on-one. I'm equally sure he will deal with thise who have committed these heineous crimes in his name.
It's a lot of work for one busy God so we should help him out and start punishing those degenerates in this life, He can take over when they die.



* You = the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church, not the individual poster quoted.

If you'd read the links I gave you'd understand the distinction between the 'True Church' and the evil actions of those who harmed children and young people. These crimes were committed against the Body of Christ by those who were supposed to represent Christ Himself.

humanji

Ultravid wrote: »

I share this background reading, I hope it is useful >>>



and this:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_church.htm

and this addresses priestly abuse directly:
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_pedophilia.htm

I share these links because I too am horrified by what has happened to the innocent at the hands of some priests, but am also dismayed at how the true Church is wrongly vilified. Only by reading those pages can the uninitiated, for the want of a better word, begin to understand the full picture, and see that none of this actually undermines the true faith nor gives any reason for anyone to walk away from the Church, despite the sadness of it all.

Sorry if this is taking things off topic, but is that the official Vatican line?

Ultravid

humanji wrote: »

Sorry if this is taking things off topic, but is that the official Vatican line?

I'd say those are the views of a very smart, faithful Catholic who is also a psychologist. However, if you find anything on his site contrary to Catholic faith and morals, you can let him know!

humanji

It was just curiosity. Thanks.

bmaxi

Ultravid wrote: »

I'd say those are the views of a very smart, faithful Catholic who is also a psychologist. However, if you find anything on his site contrary to Catholic faith and morals, you can let him know!

If he is taking the line that the "Catholic" church is the Universal faith of Christianity then I suppose, if you are a believer, what he says could be considered fair comment. This church however, should not be confused with the Roman Catholic church.

peasant

Ultravid wrote: »

I share these links because I too am horrified by what has happened to the innocent at the hands of some priests, but am also dismayed at how the true Church is wrongly vilified. Only by reading those pages can the uninitiated, for the want of a better word, begin to understand the full picture, and see that none of this actually undermines the true faith nor gives any reason for anyone to walk away from the Church, despite the sadness of it all.

...and lovely links they are.
But quite frankly, they are also a load of excusatory bull. The "true church" having nothing to do with the "curch". The power of forgiveness, the power of prayer, etc

Here's another little quote from Jesus for you:

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21)

The church (true or otherwise) and God himself can forgive child molesting priests all day long and pray for them however much they like ...but they should also render them unto Ceasar ...in other words not hide them from the law.

Hagar

Ultravid wrote: »

If you'd read the links I gave you'd understand the distinction between the 'True Church' and the evil actions of those who harmed children and young people. These crimes were committed against the Body of Christ by those who were supposed to represent Christ Himself.

Those links are just a load of the usual smoke and mirrors that all big organizations use to try and distance themselves from the actions of their executives when they get caught.

peasant wrote: »

...and lovely links they are.
But quite frankly, they are also a load of excusatory bull. The "true church" having nothing to do with the "curch". The power of forgiveness, the power of prayer, etc

Here's another little quote from Jesus for you:



The church (true or otherwise) and God himself can forgive child molesting priests all day long and pray for them however much they like ...but they should also render them unto Ceasar ...in other words not hide them from the law.

Nail, head.

gerajella

Cork_girl wrote: »

Odd line to finish the article on..

Sickening reading that.

I seem to remember that when the reign of Pope Paul the sixth came to an end with his death in late 1978, there was talk of a prophecy which stated that after only two or three successors, the Catholic Church would be forced to leave Rome. The immediate sucessor to Paul VI, John Paul I died after only a month in office, to be replaced by John Paul II, who survived until three years ago when the third suessor to paul VI, Benedict XVI came to be Pontiff. Could it be that the sex abuse scandal bankrupts the Church forcing it into exile. In the south of France according to the prophecy of St. Malachy I think, but could be another. Interesting times.

anymore

peasant wrote: »

...and lovely links they are.
But quite frankly, they are also a load of excusatory bull. The "true church" having nothing to do with the "curch". The power of forgiveness, the power of prayer, etc

Here's another little quote from Jesus for you:



The church (true or otherwise) and God himself can forgive child molesting priests all day long and pray for them however much they like ...but they should also render them unto Ceasar ...in other words not hide them from the law.

Could someone tell me if Jesus left anything in writing himself which might be helpful in this issue ?
Indeed did he leave anything in writing at all ?
#

Hagar

The only record of Jesus writing anything is in John 8:6-11

John wrote:

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused you? Has no man condemned you? 11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn you. Go, and now sin no more.

What would he write about his servants in the Church if he put his finger in the dust now? I for one would speak out, so would many others. So child molesters don't expect to escape the condemnation of Jesus.

Ultravid

bmaxi wrote: »

If he is taking the line that the "Catholic" church is the Universal faith of Christianity then I suppose, if you are a believer, what he says could be considered fair comment. This church however, should not be confused with the Roman Catholic church.

The true Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church, which has the successor of Peter as its earthly head.

8. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)

This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as "the pillar and mainstay of the truth".(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity. (DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - LUMEN GENTIUM, paragraph 8)

raindog.promo

Oops.

I appear to have stumbled into a religious or philosophical forum when I was actually seeking a politics forum.