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13-03-2010 4:56pm#1
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Thanks for the replies everyone and Pikachucheeks and Bonito - it's as if you were both reading my mind
What's really disconcerting for me is the sudden change in mentality. That all through your teens, you are told not to let a relationship take over your life. Schools, magazines, parents/relatives preach about not losing touch with friends, not letting it distract you too much from studying, "living your life", travelling etc. As minidazzler mentioned, I remember a time when people were slagged for spending all their time with the OH.
So your told all this for the best part of a decade and, it seemed to me, that suddenly when you hit 20 this all goes window! It becomes perfectly acceptable to bring your OH along to everything, barely even walking to the local shop without them, giving up nearly every weekend to spend with them, and an expectation that you are number one ahead of any study, career or travel plans - you have a partner and everything else has to just fit in around him/her. Anyone who doesn't think like this is naive.
It only seems to get worse as you get older. It's expected that people with set up home with an Other Half who will be more important than family or friends. This is seen as part of being an adult but it makes me angry. Like pikachucheeks said, family and friends have been there your whole life, and suddenly when a partner comes along they have to just quietly accept a "demotion" to second place. If it comes to a feud or an choice, people are expected to just side with their partner. I've thought about this a lot, and what I came up with is that family and friends all fulfill some needs, but that partners fullfill fulfill all needs (love, companionship, sexual, emotional, security etc). So maybe that's an explanation, still makes me feel angry though..0 -
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The people outlined in the first post seem needy and insecure. I've never understood why some people feel the need to test relationships like that. That said some of the later posters seem equally callus and self centred
That day will come when you make a serious, life long commitment to someone and settle down to start a new family.
Seems like your setting yourself up for loneliness. If you never put someone else's needs before you own, then no one will ever put yours a head of theirs. This is something which is needed in a relationship.
What odd questions to ask. I'd think less of my brother if he told me that I was higher in his list of priorities then his wife and mother of his children. When you marry someone (or whatever other process which represents life long commitment) you're declaring that they are your new family, that your partner is the most important person and thing in your life.
Callous and self centred? Ridiculously harsh, why does thinking they wouldn't be able to put a romantic relationship over family/friends/themselves make them callous?
It's not like they are stringing anyone along. One poster said he would put himself before anyone else and that's his right, again, once he makes it clear to the potential partner than he's not doing anything wrong. Isn't it more self centred and callous to "demote" all the people who have been there your whole life to "second place" or even lower down the food chain?
I can completely understand loving people the same but in different ways, however I've found most people don't see it like this. There has to be some sort of hierarchy.
Odd questions :rolleyes:. I was asking questions about someone's perspective so I could understand it better. I can think of some reasons hypothetically myself of why you might put a person who you were very commited to, (you'll see this if you re read my first post, and I never once mentioned putting your wife and kids "below" family)0 -
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KnocKnocKnock wrote: »Callous and self centred? Ridiculously harsh, why does thinking they wouldn't be able to put a romantic relationship over family/friends/themselves make them callous? It's not like they are stringing anyone along. One poster said he would put himself before anyone else and that's his right, again, once he makes it clear to the potential partner than he's not doing anything wrong. Isn't it more self centred and callous to "demote" all the people who have been there your whole life to "second place" or even lower down the food chain?
I can completely understand loving people the same but in different ways, however I've found most people don't see it like this. There has to be some sort of hierarchy.
Odd questions :rolleyes:. I was asking questions about someone's perspective so I could understand it better. I can think of some reasons hypothetically myself of why you might put a person who you were very commited to, (you'll see this if you re read my first post, and I never once mentioned putting your wife and kids "below" family)
Let the record show you're the one whose getting into the specifics of what someone else has said. The end drop a relationship and go off travelling for a year is callous and self centred to put yourself always first is callous and self self-centred. Just because it's someone's right to do so, doesn't mean its something to be proud of.
As for your hierarchy, ask a mother which of her children she loves more, which one she puts first, see the response. People aren't little figurines which you can order just so every relationship is unique.0 -
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Let the record show you're the one whose getting into the specifics of what someone else has said. The end drop a relationship and go off travelling for a year is callous and self centred to put yourself always first is callous and self self-centred. Just because it's someone's right to do so, doesn't mean its something to be proud of.
As for your hierarchy, ask a mother which of her children she loves more, which one she puts first, see the response. People aren't little figurines which you can order just so every relationship is unique.
Boston, you say every relationship is unique, which i agree with completely. Yet you condemed Pikachucheeks and Master of Nothing for not putting their OH first Is it not possible that their relationships are just unique too?
The first half of your post shows that you think quite strongly that the OH should be put first (from the way i read it,combined with your other posts, correct me please if i am wrong), but the second half you say people aren't figurines to be put in order?
Sorry, i just find your post a little confusing.0 -
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dammitjanet wrote: »Boston, you say every relationship is unique, which i agree with completely. Yet you condemed Pikachucheeks and Master of Nothing for not putting their OH first Is it not possible that their relationships are just unique too?
The first half of your post shows that you think quite strongly that the OH should be put first (from the way i read it,combined with your other posts, correct me please if i am wrong), but the second half you say people aren't figurines to be put in order?
Sorry, i just find your post a little confusing.
Firstly I did not condemn Pikachucheeks. Merely pointed out that at some point in her life things may change for her and that point will probably be when she makes a serious life long commitment. It isn't a failing or a condemnation that such a commitment has not yet happened. Master of Nothing says he has never put anyone else before himself, nor will he ever, that I think is a failing.
As for the rest of my post, I don't believe in ordering people, first or second, above or below. Frankly it's all a little pathetic. If someone is important to you, they they are important to you and you should care about how they feel and what they care about. But it should be reciprocated such that they recognise that there are also other things and people in your life which are vital for your happiness. Making you choose between these things is not the act of a loving person.
Anyone who asks the question, which is more important, me or your friends, me or your family, isn't worth the time of day since they're already envisaging a scenario where they'll make you choose.0 -
Firstly I did not condemn Pikachucheeks. Merely pointed out that at some point in her life things may change for her and that point will probably be when she makes a serious life long commitment. It isn't a failing or a condemnation that such a commitment. Master of Nothing says he has never put anyone else before himself, nor will he ever, that I think is a failing.
As for the rest of my post, I don't believe in ordering people, first or second, above or below. Frankly it's all a little pathetic. If someone is important to you, they they are important to you and you should care about how they feel and what they care about. But it should be reciprocated such that they recognise that there are also other things and people in your life which are vital for your happiness. Making you choose between these things is not the act of a loving person.
Anyone who asks the question, which is more important, me or your friends, me or your family, isn't worth the time of day since they're already envisaging a scenario where they'll make you choose.
Thank you for clarifying! I understand where you're coming from a lot better now
I actually completely agree with what you said there about if someone is making you choose. Nail on head as they say. My OH is number 1 to me but if he told me I had to choose between him or my sister or godson or so on, he wouldn't be the man i loved, because the man I love would never ask me to make that decision.
I was just worried cause your first post to Pikachu sounded a little definate and harsh, but you're above post sounds a lot fairer.
As for Master of Nothing, well that's his battle to fight if he chooses0 -
I don't know, I just hate the idea of "prioritising" the important stuff/people in your life ... it reminds me of when we were kids, "Well she's my first best friend, and then she's my second best friend, but you're definitely my third best friend after that ..."
I know that my fiancé will always be there when it matters, for the little things and for the big things, and he's already proven that so many times. And I would hope that he thinks the same of me. But then, I also do my best to be there for all of the people important to me - friends, family, etc - as does he. And I could never resent him for that, and I'm certainly never going to say to him "so who do you love more, me or your mother?!"
It just seems that there are so few situations in life where you're going to actually have to choose one person over another. It's totally possible to make time for everyone, and as long as your partner or whoever is spending enough time with you, then it shouldn't really matter if they spend more time than that with family or friends.0 -
Boston,
I have to say, you seem to be going back on some things you said before, you also seem to have misinterrpreted some things I said so let me clarify.
Let the record show that I got into the specifics of what people said? What relevance does that have? Besides, I was replying to a post in which you quoted people and commented on their opinion so it could be said that you started that. You also described some of the posters as "callous and self centred" and then quoted pikachucheeks and Master of Nothing so it's clear to see why that could be seen as an attack on them.
You also say that dropping a relationship and going travelling for a year is callous and self centred. I'm not sure if you are referring to my story in my first post. As with most situations, it is not as black and white as that. If you re read the rest of the paragraph you will see that I was 18, we had been together for 6 months and he said I hadn't considered him but this wasn't true! I had made it clear to him that this opportunity would be coming up.
As for "my" heirarchy. I did not say that there is/should be a heirarchy. I said that some others think this way. I also never stated that every relationship is not unique. Again, you go back on yourself here. In your latter posts you say that people are not figureens who can be ordered, and that putting people in a heirarchy is stupid. But in earlier posts you contradict this. When pikachucheeks says that she can never see a day when she says her OH is more important than her family and friends, you said:
That day will come when you make a serious, life long commitment to someone and settle down to start a new family.
in the same post you also said:
When you marry someone (or whatever other process which represents life long commitment) you're declaring that they are your new family, that your partner is the most important person and thing in your life.
So you yourself are advocating a heirarchy here.
I don't understand why your replies have such an argumentative tone, and why you feel the need to throw out insults, no one else has resorted to that. I was asking for opinions from both perspectives of this issue. I haven't attacked anyone or said that either side is "wrong". You seem to think I am attacking people in committed relationships but that is not the case and I invite you to show me examples of where you think I'm doing this so that I can clarify.0 -
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KnocKnocKnock wrote: »Boston,
I have to say, you seem to be going back on some things you said before, you also seem to have misinterrpreted some things I said so let me clarify.
Let the record show that I got into the specifics of what people said? What relevance does that have? Besides, I was replying to a post in which you quoted people and commented on their opinion so it could be said that you started that. You also described some of the posters as "callous and self centred" and then quoted pikachucheeks and Master of Nothing so it's clear to see why that could be seen as an attack on them.
You also say that dropping a relationship and going travelling for a year is callous and self centred. I'm not sure if you are referring to my story in my first post. As with most situations, it is not as black and white as that. If you re read the rest of the paragraph you will see that I was 18, we had been together for 6 months and he said I hadn't considered him but this wasn't true! I had made it clear to him that this opportunity would be coming up.
As for "my" heirarchy. I did not say that there is/should be a hierarchy. I said that some others think this way. I also never stated that every relationship is not unique. Again, you go back on yourself here. In your latter posts you say that people are not figureens who can be ordered, and that putting people in a heirarchy is stupid. But in earlier posts you contradict this. When pikachucheeks says that she can never see a day when she says her OH is more important than her family and friends, you said:
That day will come when you make a serious, life long commitment to someone and settle down to start a new family.
in the same post you also said:
When you marry someone (or whatever other process which represents life long commitment) you're declaring that they are your new family, that your partner is the most important person and thing in your life.
So you yourself are advocating a heirarchy here.
I don't understand why your replies have such an argumentative tone, and why you feel the need to throw out insults, no one else has resorted to that. I was asking for opinions from both perspectives of this issue. I haven't attacked anyone or said that either side is "wrong". You seem to think I am attacking people in committed relationships but that is not the case and I invite you to show me examples of where you think I'm doing this so that I can clarify.
The relevance of my statement is this. I did not specifically attribute the labels of callous and self centred to any poster, but rather you extrapolated that from my post. So it was you, not I, who opened that can of worms. I think people should be free to post up how they feel and others should be free to say that in general some of the post they find distasteful. But I'm not going to allow my words to be turned against someone they where not intended for. In this case pikachucheeks. Her attitude is both appropriate and re-assuring.
You say I've contradicted myself because I advised that someday she will not place a greater value upon her close friends when compared to her life partner. It is your assumption that this means she will at some time place a greater value upon her life partner then her friends. These are not my words. It is my belief that the people closest to us should not be ordered in some crude cruel fashion. That one should recognise the intrinsic value of dear friends, family and parnters and attribute to each a measure of value which is unique to the specific relationship. Is a close friend more important then a lover? Well tell me this, can a friend fulfil the role of a lover? So why would one be more important then the other? It makes no sense to elevate one over the other. Which is more important to you, your hand or your foot, you eye or your ear? All are vital, the remove any one would diminish the whole. I may not be old, but I've lived long enough to understand the wisdom of balance.
Now, with regard the "the most important", It was a crude turn of phrase. The above is my logic, my brain speak. However, at my core I am a romantic. I believe in true love, I believe in soul mates, I believe another person can be your other half and you there's. When you find this person, they are your best friend, your closest confidant, your nearest family, your most passionate lover. You cannot exist without them, you do not want to exist with out them. They are your alpha and omega, relative to them nothing matters, no one matters. You would be as a slave on to them were their feelings for you not as deep. That is what the romantic in me feels.
Call it a contradiction, I call it life and love.0 -
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You say I've contradicted myself because I advised that someday she will not place a greater value upon her close friends when compared to her life partner. It is your assumption that this means she will at some time place a greater value upon her life partner then her friends. These are not my words. It is my believe that people closest to us should not be ordered in some crude cruel fashion. That one should recognise the intrinsic value of dear friends, family and parnters and attribute to each a measure of value which is unique to the specific relationship. Is a close friend more important then a lover? Well tell me this, can a friend fulfil the role of a lover? So why would one be more important then the other? It makes no sense to elevate one over the other. Which is more important to you, your hand or your foot, you eye or your ear? All are vital, the remove any one would diminish the whole.
Now, with regard the "the most important", It was a crude turn of phrase. .
I made the assumption only because you said in the same post that a life partner would be the most important thing/person in your life. If your wording of this didn't accurately express your opinion then fair enough.
The only thing I was calling a contradiction is that you said that the life partner would be the most important person/thing in your life and then later said that people can not be ordered and one cannot be given more importance then the others in your life.
As for the rest of the quoted text, I share those beliefs. Especially the bolded bit.
Thanks everyone, this was an interesting discussion. 0 -
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KnocKnocKnock wrote: »I made the assumption only because you said in the same post that a life partner would be the most important thing/person in your life. If your wording of this didn't accurately express your opinion then fair enough.
The only thing I was calling a contradiction is that you said that the life partner would be the most important person/thing in your life and then later said that people can not be ordered and one cannot be given more importance then the others in your life.
As for the rest of the quoted text, I share those beliefs. Especially the bolded bit.
Thanks everyone, this was an interesting discussion.
nah, I said people should not be order, not that there's some magical force stopping people from elevating themselves and others above their fellow humans. I'm well aware of the callous and self centred.0 -
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Your other half becomes the priorty in your life when you are willing to make a life long committment to that person, you cannot make a committment to someone until you are ready to put them above everthing else in your life, thats my opinion anyhows 0
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