Ongoing religious scandals

robindch

This one's been running for a while, but finally, the Vatican has announced that it's going to charge ten people, including a cardinal, and four companies for extortion, abuse of office and fraud.

Elsewhere, indictments by the Vatican for child abuse, the covering-up thereof, or anything at all related to the health and welfare of children remain steady, so far as I recall, at zero.

https://www.thejournal.ie/vatican-indicts-cardinal-extortion-5484803-Jul2021/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/cardinal-among-10-charged-by-vatican-with-fraud-and-money-laundering-1.4611087

Btw, the pic in the IT's article may have Jesus looking more hung than is right and proper.

Hotblack Desiato

You'd wonder how much of their professed "concern" over child abuse is genuine and how much is really concern about abuse scandals causing donations to drop off.

From The Best Catholics In The World:

Until the McGennis scandal triggered a slump in Mass attendance - and the door-to-door collection he [a parishoner] helped organise.

"The money went down from £900 to £200 or £300, and that was a lot," he says.

robindch

Yesterday, hundreds of cars lined the route as the remains of ten children were returned home, after 140 years, from the catholic-run Carlisle Residential Indian School to Sicangu Lakota Nation, South Dakota

THe https://twitter.com/ResusCGMedia/status/1416230163608588289

Hotblack Desiato

When if ever are we going to have respectful burials for the victims of Tuam and all the other places...?

Bannasidhe

Never unless we have a complete change in political leadership combined with large scale public calls.

Both FG and FF were, as governing parties, far too close to the abuse so seem to be intent on keeping a lid on things as much as possible.

Igotadose

Oopsies. Monsignor leading the effort to deny communion to President Biden, just resigned. Turned out he got caught using Grindr for dates.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/21/top-catholic-priest-resigns-after-phone-data-tracked-to-grindr/

Hotblack Desiato

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640835#Comment_117640835

And the party which could replace them in government has its own history with bodies dumped in unmarked holes in the ground...

Bannasidhe

Safe to say the three main parties all have their origins in paramilitary organisations. And given Labour's links to the Citizens Army they too have a connection in addition to their Sticky past.

However, blah blah blah about SF is IMHO finger pointing whataboutry in this context. Fact is while thousands of vulnerable children and women died, were forced to endure being the subject of medical experiments, sold, forced into slave labour, sexually abused either FF or FG were in government.

While either of those two parties is in power government has an investment in downplaying what happened even as they utter mealy mouthed apologies of the 'society was to blame' variety.

And I give as evidence a plethora of commissions which costed millions and achieved nothing.

smacl

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649469#Comment_117649469

While I agree with your point about FG and FF, that wouldn't tempt me to vote for SF as a viable alternative. I'd be far more tempted by People Before Profit or Social Democrats, who strike me as far more progressive, but they just don't have the numbers. Not sure that flip-flopping between SF and FG/FF is any great improvement on flip-flopping between FG and FF, though that does look like what we're facing into.

Bannasidhe

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650172#Comment_117650172

Not being an SF voter I am certainly not advocating voting for SF. My point was I commented that given the current parties in govt were up to their necks in the many many abuses carried out by Church/State collusion it's hard to see either of them seriously seeking to expose the truth or enable any public outpouring of grief that could lead to awkward questions - and more importantly overwhelming demands for answers. The response I got was "yeah, but SF". And I am sick of that "whatabout SF" shite. Yes, SF have a very dodgy past. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in the Free State and later Republic to victims of State/Clerical abuses and to even pull that "whatabout SF" shite is, imho, using those victims for cheap political point scoring. SF were not in govt, FF/FG/LP were. This is on them and them only. And for the record I am an ex member of the LP.

smacl

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650508#Comment_117650508

Again, entirely fair point, though when we blame a political party for a past event that had a largely different membership then and now, what we're actually finding fault with is the culture that seeks to cover up past misdemeanours. Very difficult to outscore the Catholic church on that particular field of play, though our major political parties come close. If SF get into power, and I think it is inevitable they will at some point, the main reason they'd address this issue IMHO would be political point scoring and deflection from their own shortcomings. Off topic, I find it hard to muster any enthusiasm for our political system, beyond that for individual politicians that I respect. They all close ranks once the **** hits the fan.

Hotblack Desiato

It's not using victims for cheap political point scoring. 🙄 It's pointing out that none of them have clean hands and they all have elements of their history they wish to cover over or sanitize, so any SF hand-wringing on this issue has to be taken with a bucket of salt.

Bannasidhe

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650701#Comment_117650701

Inkgate showed how SF close ranks, however when the day comes I doubt any Irish govt has ever been as scrutinised as an SF one will be - though they should have been. As for the current always been in power shower - the current crop have had multiple opportunities to fess up and openly acknowledge in an inclusive way what occurred under their remit. And although they mouth the words their actions are those of a continual cover-up. The victims have to jump through hoops and are let down every single time. The abuse continues as the victims are being gaslight by the current govt. Ask them if they care if SF blew the lid on the whole sordid mess for political reasons and I imagine they will tell you that FG and FF are keeping the lid on for political reasons so if it's a binary choice its also a simple choice.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651231#Comment_117651231

You were the one who introduced SF into a discussion where there was no need to do so as they are neither in govt, nor been in govt, and therefore cannot be held accountable for Church/State abuses. I certainly never mentioned them. I said while the 'guilty parties' are in power it's hard to see them being interested in full disclosure. Rather than discuss that you had a go at an uninvolved political party. Furthermore, the way you framed the entry of SF into the discussion was in terms of "buried bodies" - what is that if not using the victims of abuse and murder for cheap political point scoring?

Hold SF accountable for their past (and present) by all means - and there are threads in other forums dedicated to that. Just as there are threads on govt parties in other forums continually being dragged off topic by cheap political what about SF point scoring. TBH your comment seemed very much to be in the latter category.

Hotblack Desiato

It was just pointing out the irony, that's all.

Hotblack Desiato

Vile stuff.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/ex-christian-brother-jailed-for-morally-reprehensible-abuse-1.4631124

Jesuits admit there was an abuse cover-up at Belvedere College:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/jesuits-confirm-sex-abuse-cover-up-at-belvedere-college-1.4631094

Allegations that pupils were sexually abused by a Jesuit priest in Belvedere College in the 1970s were not properly investigated, or brought to the attention of the Garda Síochána, a former school headmaster has told a Jesuit-ordered inquiry.

Last night, the Jesuits said the sexual abuse of pupils at the Dublin school was a “shameful” chapter in the order’s history, following the disclosure of some of the draft contents of an inquiry into the affair.

...and have issued a statement:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-jesuit-order-statement-regarding-joseph-marmion-1.4631071

What has emerged in terms of the story of Marmion’s abuse, and subsequent handling of his case is shameful for us Jesuits and must be very difficult for survivors to read. Decisions were made that should never have been made and decisions that should have been made were not. There are no excuses.

Igotadose

Jesuits moved this guy around well after the allegations. The Garda did their usual bang-up job when it comes to investigation RCC offenses.

On the twitter thread posted yesterday about the anti-semitic SSPX mob, one of the activists who called them out, is being harassed by the Garda as part of some other investigations. Guards have to obey their orders from the RCC, I suppose.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117663668#Comment_117663668

Frame it anyway you like, SF are not responsible for the Church/Govt collusion that led to decades of abuse so bringing them up in that context is, imho, a pointless political dig at the expensive of victims.

Such as Anne Silke. Used as unpaid child labour by a founding member of Fianna Fail, physically and sexually abused by members of the household while still a child.

[QUOTE]According to statements made by family members and details from Silke’s testimony, as well as multiple sources who knew Silke and saw her file, the documentary points to Mark Killilea Jr as responsible for physically assaulting Silke. The ‘Golfgate’ event last year in Galway was a dinner in honour of the late TD and MEP. The documentary points to Jarlath Killilea as having sexually abused her. He was a former head of the Department of Tourism and Catering at Cork Institute of Technology. Both men are deceased.[/QUOTE]https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40344998.html

The 'Golfgate' dinner was held in honour of one of her alleged abusers. FF and FG turned out to 'honour' a so called pillar of the community who was witnessed beating a child for failing to clean a house properly. That is indicative of the rot at the heart of our current political system and how the past is still very much feeding their present. Just like the RCC, they protect - and honour- the monsters who dwelt among them.

Hotblack Desiato

All parties which have been in government since the foundation of the state have responsibility for these abuses.

It is a disgrace that Anne Silke and so many others are now dead and will never obtain justice. Meanwhile at Tuam and other places, not much is continuing to happen very very slowly.

I certainly don't want to make excuses for the golfgate cretins, but aren't those allegations only becoming public now? Not even FF could get away with honouring a child abuser (these days)

Odhinn

"During the last century, the Irish state imprisoned a greater share of its population than any other country on Earth: not for crimes against people or property, but for failing to comply with a repressive moral code. The victims are still counting the cost."

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/08/ireland-20th-century-carceral-state-women-sexual-reproductive-codes-industrial-schools-magdalene-laundries-mother-and-baby-homes-institutionalization/?fbclid=IwAR2cyyE7l_k8EhS3Xr1ajKcYT04TodxITZuVEnMe8vPvK6o0X5kUr1GHUrQ

Hotblack Desiato

More on the Jesuit abuse cover-up:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/this-has-brought-us-to-our-knees-jesuits-and-the-sex-abuse-cover-up-at-belvedere-college-1.4635096

Despite the credibility of the pupils’ allegations, the question of reporting the matter to the Gardaí did not arise in any conversation at that time

...

One ex-pupil says the Jesuits knew of Fr Marmion’s sexual abuse in 1973, under the seal of Confession, which presented them with a choice “to honour the confessional seal or act to protect children,” the response said.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/alleged-fraud-uncovered-during-audit-of-fund-for-survivors-of-institutional-abuse-1.4643180

An audit of payments made from a fund for survivors of abuse in religious institutions has found weaknesses in financial controls including a lack of documentation regarding some awards and an alleged fraud it was subjected to.

Caranua, the independent body established to manage a €110 million fund to improve the lives of survivors, began to wind down its operations last year.

A number of separate accounts and reports regarding it have been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas, with one showing that the appeals body attached to Caranua raised concerns about a claim from a survivor being unilaterally closed down.

Audits of the 2014 to 2019 financial statements found “weaknesses in internal control where the board’s procedures were not always followed in respect of payments to survivors,” one financial report states.

A number of issues were uncovered including that in cases where post payment invoices and receipts were required to be presented to the board of the fund, such documentation had not been presented in 38 per cent of cases sampled by audit last year.

Odhinn

"The Catholic church in Canada has come under growing pressure to compensate victims of the country’s residential school system after the scale of its assets were revealed in a string of media investigations.

As part of a 2007 agreement, the church agreed to pay C$29m in compensation to survivors, but distributed only a fraction of that figure, citing poor fundraising efforts.

Now, reports by CBC News and Globe and Mail have revealed that the church not only controls more than C$4bn in assets, but also pulls in hundreds of millions in charitable donations and that it constructed gilded cathedrals while claiming it lacks the funds to make good on its promises to pay compensation."

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/10/canada-catholic-church-pressure-residential-schools-abuses

Scum, the lot of them.

robindch

Hobby Lobby, the company founded by fundamentalist christian, Steve Green, has returned around 12,000 objects to Iraq after it turned out that Green's 'Museum of the Bible' was filled with stolen property and objects of unknown or unclear provenance. Cornell University returned a further 5,000 items which they'd received from a collector in the US around twenty years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/world/middleeast/iraq-looted-artifacts-return.html

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/catholic-priest-jeffrey-burrill-grindr-pillar/619758/

OK, not the first time "priest used Grindr" made the news, but the means used to discover this information are rather disturbing, especially as some of this data is claimed to relate to the Vatican (presumably going across Italian mobile networks and therefore supposedly covered by GDPR.)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/protestant-survivors-of-mother-and-baby-homes-await-justice-1.4636523

Protestant survivors of mother and baby homes await justice

[Derek] Leinster believes the Government is kicking the can down the road. What has happened in the 200 days since the publication of the mother and baby homes report is “a re-run of 2002” when survivors of the Bethany Home were excluded from the Residential Institutions Redress Act, he says.

“It’s ‘we might do this; we might do that; we’re going to do the other’. In the meantime, we’re getting older, sicker and running out of space. I don’t have much time left, that’s for sure. I’ve had too much of a hard life. Being left to rot as a child isn’t something that does you any good.”

He says he will not be part of any redress scheme that offers less than was given to survivors of Catholic institutions in 2002.

For him now, this fight is not about compensation, but about equality and the State and Church of Ireland taking responsibility for the wrongs that were done to him and other survivors. “I will not accept one penny less. I’m not prepared to be treated as a second-class citizen because I’m a Protestant.”

“We missed out because of our religion. We were discriminated against and we’re still being discriminated against. Even in 2002, you were only talking about a handful [of survivors], but they’ve done everything they could to stop us getting that redress. I know they want me dead because once I’m gone they won’t have to worry about the Protestant issue,” he says.

Hotblack Desiato

Interesting report here on church organisations and their very substantial assets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/value-of-church-owned-lands-and-property-in-ireland-estimated-at-billions-1.4660303

Meanwhile...

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0830/1243751-catholic-church-housing/

Archbishop Eamon Martin has not received correspondence from Minister for Housing Darragh O'Brien asking the Catholic Church to identify land or vacant buildings that could be used to tackle the housing crisis. That's according to a spokesperson for Dr Martin, who was responding to an article in today's Irish Times that said the minister had written to the Primate of All Ireland in recent days.

The article stated that "sources with knowledge of the letter sent to the archbishop said the intention is to open dialogue with the church on the possibility that its lands or buildings could be used as part of efforts to ramp up housing supply".

A statement issued this evening on behalf of the Primate of All Ireland says a letter was not received.

It says that, when he receives it, Archbishop Martin will consider the letter's contents carefully and, in consultation with his brother bishops, will reflect on it during the autumn general meeting of the Irish Catholic Bishops' Conference in October.

Hotblack Desiato

Wrong thread - posted in Hobby Horses

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58420270

There are "shocking failings" and "blatant hypocrisy" in the way major UK religious groups handle child sex abuse allegations, an inquiry has found.

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) said some religious organisations in England and Wales were "morally failing" children.

It examined evidence from 38 groups, including those from Christianity, Orthodox Judaism and Islam.

Leaders discouraged reporting abuse to protect reputations, the report found.

It said the religious leaders also blamed victims for their abuse, and relied on religious dogma when responding to allegations.

No surprises there, unfortunately. Abusing kids is a "value" which transcends doctrinal differences.

Hotblack Desiato

And some gits still say that non-theists have no basis for morals...