Ongoing religious scandals

robindch

Seems that Herr Ratzinger is concerned that if the two bishops resign, then more bishops might have to resign too:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0812/1224276639077.html

Hardly the best reason for not accepting the resignations, I'd have thought.

eoin5

I wonder are they like "yay I dont have to quit being a bishop now". If they actually want to resign what recourse do the bishops have now I wonder, I'm guessing they would have to quit their vocation for going against the pope.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

Seems that Herr Ratzinger is concerned that if the two bishops resign, then more bishops might have to resign too
.

We all know that once you go down that road, you end up at Herr Rats Himself. They are drawing a line between the actual practising paedophiles and those who facilitated paedophiles.

It is a kick in the teeth for Diarmuid Martin and the reform minded faction though.

robindch

The beeb covered the same story. Has a great photo of Ratzi too:



"Fer sure, I haff got offer my daze in ze Hitler Use"

Turtwig

Not really a scandal per se. (Second time I've used that phrase today, *prays to the word Gods that it is being used appropriately) Liveline was about the (new?) imposed dress code at Knock.

Delirium

robindch wrote: »

The beeb covered the same story. Has a great photo of Ratzi too:



"Fer sure, I haff got offer my daze in ze Hitler Use"

Looks like the pope is throwing the devil horns:D

robindch

Seems the church wasn't only protecting child abusers, but bombers too:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0824/claudy.html

Archbishop Brady "accepted the report's findings, but said the church did not engage in a cover-up".

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

Seems the church wasn't only protecting child abusers, but bombers too:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0824/claudy.html

Archbishop Brady "accepted the report's findings, but said the church did not engage in a cover-up".

Basically, he didn't accept the findings then.

veritable

Where is the criticism that should be directed at the state, the gardai and the ministers, all of whom were in full knowledge of what was going on and yet failed in their duties?

Dades

veritable wrote: »

Where is the criticism that should be directed at the state, the gardai and the ministers, all of whom were in full knowledge of what was going on and yet failed in their duties?

In the same report that criticizes the religious institutions?

Nobody has suggested that these people are not also culpable, but this is the Religion & Spirituality category and we are talking about an organisation that continues to hide truths whilst maintaining it's self-appointed position as spiritual and moral guardian for the people.

recedite

veritable wrote: »

Where is the criticism that should be directed at the state, the gardai and the ministers, all of whom were in full knowledge of what was going on and yet failed in their duties?

It seems the British State and/or the RUC came up with the idea, in which case the Irish State and the Gardai were correct in not getting involved. Risk of starting another civil war or something.

veritable

Dades wrote: »

In the same report that criticizes the religious institutions?

Nobody has suggested that these people are not also culpable, but this is the Religion & Spirituality category and we are talking about an organisation that continues to hide truths whilst maintaining it's self-appointed position as spiritual and moral guardian for the people.

But where is the outcry and backlash against the govt ministers/gardai/etc? Why have none of them been investigated? Surely they are as guilty?
It is relevant to this thread.

axer

veritable wrote: »

But where is the outcry and backlash against the govt ministers/gardai/etc? Why have none of them been investigated? Surely they are as guilty?
It is relevant to this thread.

The Irish Government and civil authorities have learned from the mistakes in the past and have changed accordingly. They are still not perfect whereas the likes of the Catholic Church still doesn't understand paedophillia while thats what it looks like when looking at the crap they come out with.

I think the government et al were very guilty for trusting the religious organisations. They let the abuse happen.

Joe Luis

another article talking about the Claudy Bombings, this one certainly doesn't pull any punches http://rulehibernia.com/2010/08/the-claudy-bombings-and-the-catholic-church/ infact from what I've seen the site seems very anti catholic church.

eoin5

Joe Luis wrote: »

another article talking about the Claudy Bombings, this one certainly doesn't pull any punches http://rulehibernia.com/2010/08/the-claudy-bombings-and-the-catholic-church/ infact from what I've seen the site seems very anti catholic church.

Its all just tasteless snide mudflinging though:

Vespasian wrote:

...all those Nazi war criminals should just have joined up with the clergy and they’d have been grand.

And you retards still go to church.

Most of the article has the same kinda vibe.

panda100

The Irish president comes out in support of the Catholic hierarchy of bishops that covered up the clerical abuse.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-president--comes-out-in-support-of-Dublin-Archbishop-101288474.html

What was the president doing speaking at this fascist Catholic groups meeting anyway?!

magicbastarder

panda100 wrote: »

The Irish president comes out in support of the Catholic hierarchy of bishops that covered up the clerical abuse.

that's one interpretation. this paragraph provides extra context, though:

Her comment came after the Vatican overruled Martin on the issue of dismissing two bishops he said were culpable on child abuse scandals. Since then Martin has appeared greatly weakened.

sink

panda100 wrote: »

The Irish president comes out in support of the Catholic hierarchy of bishops that covered up the clerical abuse.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-president--comes-out-in-support-of-Dublin-Archbishop-101288474.html

What was the president doing speaking at this fascist Catholic groups meeting anyway?!

While I think the president of a secular state should no be commenting on internal religious matters, in this case I agree with her. Martin seems to be the only one in the upper echelons of the Catholic church who is taking the situation seriously rather than trying to cover his own ass and the churches reputation.

veritable

axer wrote: »

The Irish Government and civil authorities have learned from the mistakes in the past and have changed accordingly. They are still not perfect whereas the likes of the Catholic Church still doesn't understand paedophillia while thats what it looks like when looking at the crap they come out with.

I think the government et al were very guilty for trusting the religious organisations. They let the abuse happen.

The govt has clearly not learnt from its mistakes. Where are the 17 or so children that have either died or disappeared in the care of the HSE in the past few years?

mikhail

I don't agree with axer. The difference isn't that the government has learned. The difference is that they're answerable to the electorate. The Pope is answerable to no one.

Well, no one real.

robindch

Parents in US film catholic priest diddling their daughter. Priest sent to "treatment facility", but the upcoming lawsuit claims he "ultimately impregnated her":

http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=1933720&spid=

MagicMarker

robindch wrote: »

Parents in US film catholic priest diddling their daughter. Priest sent to "treatment facility", but the upcoming lawsuit claims he "ultimately impregnated her":

http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=1933720&spid=

WTF!?

''Treatment Facility''? To treat what?

She's 18 and fair game imo

sink

MagicMarker wrote: »

WTF!?

''Treatment Facility''? To treat what?

She's 18 and fair game imo

Well he was an employee of the school, he used his position of trust and authority to get into an 18 year old girls knickers. A teacher would be fired from his job for doing the same, he should be held to the same standard, failure to uphold a duty of care.

MagicMarker

Hmm, I didn't see the school part in fairness.

IMO though, what two consenting adults do in their own time is no one's business.

efb

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/secret-tapes-reveal-cardinal-warned-victim-to-stay-silent-2316782.html

I'd like to see David Quinn's spin on this...

HavingCrack

MagicMarker wrote: »

Hmm, I didn't see the school part in fairness.

IMO though, what two consenting adults do in their own time is no one's business.

Its not really though, would you consider it acceptable for doctors or psyciatrists to start having sex with their patients or lectureres having sex with their students. If one person has power over the other (eg could be dangling drugs or better grades as a reward) it changes the dynamic. Some lines are there for a reason and I think a teacher-student relationship is just something that should not occur.

Pushtrak

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/09/ah_but_its_only_a_few_bad_appl.php

A few bad apples
That's the usual excuse we here from defenders of Catholicism — that the accusations of pedophilia and sexual abuse are only the work of a tiny minority of rotten people. I can accept that it's a small minority that are the actual perpetrators, but the culture of the church protects its own…and the privileged, special, precious people aren't the congregation, it's the priesthood.

Belgium has plumbed the depths of its own local apple barrel, and made a horrifying discovery.

"We can say that no congregation escapes sexual abuse of minors by one or several of its members," the commission concluded.

The 200-page report, published on Friday, contains testimonies from some 124 anonymous victims, revealing that abuse for most began at the age of 12.

It noted a "high number of suicides" with 13 deaths and six attempts attributed to "sexual abuse by a cleric".

Every congregation has a horror story about an abusive priest. That says something. This isn't about a rare event — it's about a common risk associated with growing up Catholic in Belgium.

HavingCrack

HavingCrack wrote: »

Its not really though, would you consider it acceptable for doctors or psyciatrists to start having sex with their patients or lectureres having sex with their students. If one person has power over the other (eg could be dangling drugs or better grades as a reward) it changes the dynamic. Some lines are there for a reason and I think a teacher-student relationship is just something that should not occur.

Relationships where one partner uses the other are going to happen anyway, one doesn't have to be in a position of power. The adults will both be aware of the consequences and of the possible motives behind it. Their choice.

HavingCrack

Deleted User wrote: »

Relationships where one partner uses the other are going to happen anyway, one doesn't have to be in a position of power. The adults will both be aware of the consequences and of the possible motives behind it. Their choice.

That's a silly argument in fairness. A person being used in a relationship isn't the same thing as somebody in a position of power. I could and use a girl for sex tonight but its clearly different to a teacher havbing sex with their student in my eyes.

Would you consider a woman offering to have sex with her doctor in exchange for medication acceptable for example??? I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd say it'd be a gross violation of a doctor-patient relationship. The fact that both consent to it doesn't make a differance-there's clearly

jobee

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

That's because its hard to find an excuse for the inexcusable.

The grass roots of the religion are so overawed by their religious masters they
are to terrified to speak up, We are looking at cowardice.
It is cowardice that will finish them.