Ongoing religious scandals

Nodin

Catholic institutions still owe the State hundreds of millions of euro in contributions that were promised after the church abuse scandals, according to new figures obtained by the Labour party.
The figures show that out of €348m pledged last year in cash and property after the Ryan report, just 6% has been handed over. No property has been transferred.
More than €26m is still outstanding from the original Indemnity Deal.
Under that deal, negotiated in 2002, the religious congregations pledged to hand over €128m in cash and property.

(my bold)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1217/abuse.html

....information thats all the more pointed, given the recent revelations about Walsh.

Theres a report with regards to the Cloyne diocese due to be given to Ahern next week, though we, the great unwashed, won't see it till some time next year.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1217/abuse2.html

Nodin

The former Minister for Education, Dr Michael Woods, has defended the controversial compensation deal with the Catholic Church on institutional abuse.
Deputy Woods' remarks came after he announced his retirement from politics

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Woods said the deal, which has been hugely criticised for its apparent generosity to the church, was the only option at the time.
He also claimed that it was the right deal for the people concerned.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/woodsm.html

A bit of a 'Freudian' there, in ways.

Arcus Arrow

Leto wrote: »

Figure this might be the best place to (attempt to) satisfy my curiosity - is anyone aware of the running total of clergy who have been convicted of child abuse? I'm interested in it as a proportion of the total number of active religious.

The figure doesn't mean anything but it's used by the CCL to distract and distort peoples perceptions. The Vatican started the spin about percentages. Also the vast majority of children raped, tortured, abused, enslaved or driven to suicide by the CCL will never be fully known.

There are 2 Dublin Transport companies who each have 4 drivers who have killed pedestrians.

Joe's Soap Haulage company had 4 drivers who each crashed their vans once in 10 years, each killing one person. They were immediately let go by the company as dangerous drivers on each occasion.

Ratzinger Haulage had 4 drivers who crashed hundreds of times, killed and injured multiple pedestrians, got moved to parts of the city where they continued to kill, all this being covered up by the management right up to the CEO. Ratzinger Transport had the co-operation of their friends in the local police and politicians. When their record was discovered the politicians, who had shares in Ratzinger Haulage (on an afterlife deal), set up a scam called the Indemnity deal which gave the bill to the taxpayers.

In Dublin Ratzinger Haulage PR spokesmen still claim to have the same percentage of bad driver (4) as Joe Soap Haulage.

The Mad Hatter

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0107/woodsm.html

A bit of a 'Freudian' there, in ways.

I don't see it, but I'm reminded of

Focalbhach

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

The figure doesn't mean anything but it's used by the CCL to distract and distort peoples perceptions. The Vatican started the spin about percentages. Also the vast majority of children raped, tortured, abused, enslaved or driven to suicide by the CCL will never be fully known.

There are 2 Dublin Transport companies who each have 4 drivers who have killed pedestrians.

Joe's Soap Haulage company had 4 drivers who each crashed their vans once in 10 years, each killing one person. They were immediately let go by the company as dangerous drivers on each occasion.

Ratzinger Haulage had 4 drivers who crashed hundreds of times, killed and injured multiple pedestrians, got moved to parts of the city where they continued to kill, all this being covered up by the management right up to the CEO. Ratzinger Transport had the co-operation of their friends in the local police and politicians. When their record was discovered the politicians, who had shares in Ratzinger Haulage (on an afterlife deal), set up a scam called the Indemnity deal which gave the bill to the taxpayers.

In Dublin Ratzinger Haulage PR spokesmen still claim to have the same percentage of bad driver (4) as Joe Soap Haulage.

You're answering a question I didn't ask, but I appreciate the reply.

robindch

Herr Ratzinger speaks with forked tongue, it seems.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0117/1224287680501.html

Irish Times wrote:

A 1997 VATICAN directive rejected a recommendation by the Irish Catholic Church that priests who abused children should be reported to the civil authorities, it has emerged.

The disclosure is made in an RTÉ documentary to be broadcast tonight, which also reports that an Irish bishop described the Vatican directive as “a mandate . . . to conceal the reported crimes of a priest”. The Would You Believe documentary, Unspeakable Crimes , is broadcast on RTÉ One television at 10.35pm.

In a January 1997 letter to each Irish bishop, marked “strictly confidential”, the Vatican said it would support the appeal of any priest defrocked by the Irish church in connection with child sex abuse. It did so in a number of cases, leading to a threat of resignation by one Irish archbishop. At a 1999 meeting in Rome the Irish hierarchy was reminded collectively by a top Vatican official that they were “bishops first, not policemen”.

The programme claims the Vatican and Pope Benedict himself failed to apply the norms of canon law to the issue of child abuse, one of the pope’s major criticisms of Ireland’s bishops. The Vatican failed to do so where two US priests were concerned and the pope did so in 2005 where Fr Marcial Maciel, founder of the Legionaries of Christ, was concerned.

In his letter to the Catholics of Ireland last March, Pope Benedict said to his “brother bishops’’ that “you and your predecessors failed, at times grievously, to apply the long-established norms of canon law to the crime of child abuse”. The Vatican opposed a recommendation in the Irish Bishops’ “Green Book” guidelines on child protection, published in January 1996, which said all allegations of clerical child sex abuse should be reported to the civil authorities.

The programme, by reporter Mick Peelo, also shows a “strictly confidential” letter sent to Irish bishops by the Vatican a year later, in January 1997, which expressed “serious reservations of a canonical and moral nature” about the mandatory reporting of such crimes to civil authorities. An Irish bishop confirmed to the programme, on condition of anonymity, that he made a note at the time describing this letter as “a mandate to conceal the crimes of a priest”.

The programme also reports that at a 1998 meeting with Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos, prefect of the Congregation for Clergy (1996 until 2006), then archbishop of Dublin Desmond Connell thumped a table in frustration as the cardinal insisted it was Vatican policy to defend the rights of an accused priest above all. Last month, Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin said that, in the past “most of the Irish bishops felt that dealing with the Congregation for Clergy was disastrous”.

More on this from Google News.

recedite

They all seem sure that if only canon law had been applied, everything would be alright now, and the police need never have been informed.

Only problem is, even the pope doesn't seem to know what exactly the canon law solution was.

Dave!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/18/vatican-irish-bishops-child-abuse?INTCMP=SRCH

Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse

A letter to Ireland's Roman Catholic bishops has been revealed by the broadcaster RTE that contradicts the Vatican's frequent claim it has never instructed clergy to withhold evidence or suspicion of child abuse from police.

The 1997 letter documents rejection of a 1996 Irish church initiative to help police identify paedophile priests. Signed by the late Archbishop Luciano Storero, Pope John Paul II's envoy to Ireland, it instructs bishops that their new policy of making the reporting of suspected crimes mandatory "gives rise to serious reservations of both a moral and canonical nature".

Storero wrote that canon law, whereby allegations and punishments are handled within the church, "must be meticulously followed"; any bishop who tried to go outside canon law would face the "highly embarrassing" position of being overturned on appeal in Rome.

A 2009 Irish state report found this actually happened with Tony Walsh, one of Dublin's most notorious paedophiles, who exploited his role as an Elvis impersonator in a popular "All Priests Show" to get closer to children. In 1993, Walsh was defrocked by a secret church court, but successfully appealed to a Vatican court, and was reinstated in the priesthood in 1994. He raped a boy in a pub restroom that year. Walsh since has received a series of prison sentences, with a 12-year term imposed last month. Investigators estimate he raped or molested more than 100 children.

Catholic officials in Ireland and the Vatican declined requests from the Associated Press to comment on the letter, marked "strictly confidential"; RTE said it had been given it by an Irish bishop.

"The letter is of huge international significance," said Colm O'Gorman, director of the Irish section of Amnesty International. "It shows that the Vatican's intention is to prevent reporting of abuse to criminal authorities. And if that instruction applied here [in Ireland], it applied everywhere."

Joelle Casteix, a director of the US advocacy group Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, described it as "the smoking gun we've been looking for." It was certain to be cited by lawyers acting for victims seeking to pin responsibility directly on Rome, not the dioceses.

To this day, the Vatican has not endorsed any of the Irish church's three documents since 1996 on safeguarding children. Irish taxpayers, rather than the church, have paid most of the €1.5bn to more than 14,000 abuse claimants dating back to the 1940s.

In a 2010 letter to Ireland condemning paedophiles in the ranks, Pope Benedict XVI faulted bishops for not following canon law and offered no explicit endorsement of child-protection efforts by the Irish church or state. He was widely criticised in Ireland.

O'Gorman (who was raped repeatedly by a priest in the 1980s when an altar boy) said evidence is mounting that some Irish bishops continued to follow the 1997 Vatican instructions. A state investigation of Cloyne diocese is to come out soon, citing crimes concealed as recently as 2008.

Fookin hell.

Anyone able to find a high res version of the letter? I'd need a magnifying glass to read the one embedded in the article...

robindch

The BBC is covering this story too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12222612

The letter itself is available as a PDF download from the New York Times:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/Ireland-Catholic-Abuse.pdf?ref=IrelandsSmokingGun

Galvasean

Will this latest wave of revelations finally convince people by and large that the RCC is rotten to the core?
Or will they continue business as usual?

Zombrex

BBC wrote:

But the Vatican said it represented an approach to sex abuse cases shaped by a particular Vatican office, the Congregation for the Clergy, before 2001.

Well thats reassuring. 2001 was 9 years ago.

So pretty much every child that has ever been in the care of the RCC has been there in a time when the RCC either had a policy of covering up sex abuse or simply no policy at all.

Every time the RCC claim that the cover up was just the work of a small set of misguided priest and bishops more evidence comes out that it was endemic. And all the RCC can say is that it was only them (such as claiming this is the position of "a particular" office) and not a reflection of the whole.

At what point does it become a reflection of the whole?

robindch

Here's the 'Would you Believe' documentary which brought this new Vatican letter to light:

http://www.rte.ie/tv/wouldyoubelieve/av_index.html

It's still available to view at the moment.

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

Will this latest wave of revelations finally convince people by and large that the RCC is rotten to the core?

If they haven't noticed it by now, it's unlikely they're going to notice it at all.

I'm genuinely gobsmacked that a (very) few friends of mine are still leaving a warm bed on Sunday morning to traipse down to their local catholic church.

Sugarfree

It made a 1.7 million euro profit last year. About time there was some proper Gardai investigation into this place.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11807:house-of-prayer-makes-a-17m-profit-in-2010&catid=23:news&Itemid=46


House of Prayer makes a €1.7m profit in 2010


Anton McNulty

THE controversial House of Prayer in Achill made a €1.7 million profit at the end of last year despite falling numbers visiting the centre and allegations of financial irregularities in recent years.
The House of Prayer was founded by religious visionary Christina Gallagher in 1993 who claimed to have the stigmata and receives regular messages direct from the Virgin Mary. Accounts filed with the Companies Registration Office show that the House of Prayer had profits of €1.72m at the end of last year.
In 2006, the Revenue Commissioners stripped the House of Prayer of its charitable status and since then it has had to treat its donations as income. Accounts show that the House of Prayer increased its income in 2010 by 18.7 per cent to €626,282. Donations made up €297,000 of that figure but the mainstay of its income came from the sale of goods and merchandise such as religious snow globes and plastic religious figurines.
The company made €285,000 from the sale of such items, up from €186,000, while café sales and accommodation accounted for another €30,000 of the centre’s income. The wage bill for the House of Prayer was reduced from €273,241 to €267,783 following the cut in employee numbers from 12 to eight in 2010.
Since it opened has attracted thousands of pilgrims from across the world but it has been highly controversial with reports that donations to the centre were funding a ‘lavish’ lifestyle for Christina Gallagher and her family.
A number of former followers claimed that their live savings were taken from them and in 2008, the Archbishop of Tuam, Dr Michael Neary distanced the Catholic Church from its operation.
The House of Prayer has been a huge boost to hotels and B&B’s especially in the Achill Sound region where it is based. However, in recent years there has been a significant fall in the number of pilgrims travelling to the House of Prayer in the large numbers it once enjoyed.

Galvasean

Visionary? Virgin Mary? Tax evasion? Is this a pattern?

Arcus Arrow

Lectures on injustice from the Sisters of Charity.

Raping, torturing and enslaving children for decades & making you pay= OK
Rezoning our multi million euro property portfilio=injustice

Sisters of Charity fight `injustice'
Aoife Hegarty & Garry O'Sullivan

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/sisters-charity-fight-injustice

The Conference of Religious of Ireland (CORI) has thrown its full support behind a decision of the Sisters of Charity to challenge in court Dublin City Council's development plan in which mostly religious land is re-zoned in a ''restrictive'' manner, an act that CORI calls ''a major injustice''.

The sisters have sought a judicial review in the High Court claiming the plan's rezoning unfairly ''targets'' their privately-owned land. The Religious Sisters of Charity said that the rezoning is ''unreasonable, irrational and substantively illegal''.
The sisters, along with other religious orders with property in Dublin, stand to have millions of euro wiped off their property value.

Orders demanding abuse case fees is immoral
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/feb/07/orders-demanding-abuse-case-fees-is-immoral/

The 18 orders that signed the indemnity deal with the State were the same orders who had tried their best to obstruct the compilation of the report. They are: Sisters of Mercy; Daughters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul; Christian Brothers; Good Shepherd Sisters; Presentation Brothers; Rosminians; Oblates of Mary Immaculate; Hospitaller Order of St John of God; Sisters of Charity; Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of Refuge; Sisters of St Clare; Institute of St Louis; Presentation Sisters; De La Salle Brothers; Dominicans; Daughters of the Heart of Mary; Brothers of Charity and Sisters of Nazareth.

Yet today we reveal that these same religious orders are seeking to have the State cover their legal costs for their obfuscation in its compilation. While they have been forced, kicking and dragging, to make adequate compensation for their crimes against children by handing over more property and cash to the state, this move will effectively claw back tens of millions of euro if they are allowed to succeed in their claim.

recedite

Sugarfree wrote: »

Donations made up €297,000 of that figure but the mainstay of its income came from the sale of goods and merchandise such as religious snow globes and plastic religious figurines.
The company made €285,000 from the sale of such items, up from €186,000, while café sales and accommodation accounted for another €30,000 of the centre’s income. The wage bill for the House of Prayer was reduced from €273,241 to €267,783 following the cut in employee numbers from 12 to eight in 2010.

I don't believe they make €5.7k a week selling snow globes. (285k/50, allowing 2 weeks holiday)
I passed by the place once, its a drab building in a small village, the odd person wanders in and out. Not exactly a busy high street shop.
Most likely they employ the usual scam; lick up to rich little old ladies just before they die, then get a nice legacy.
Still, its a free country and theres a sucker born every day. At least they pay their tax, unlike the mainstream churches. Let them at it, I say.

Arcus Arrow

Leto wrote: »

You're answering a question I didn't ask, but I appreciate the reply.

I appreciate that but how significant is any percentage figure for abusers when every effort it made to ensure that anything close to the true figure will never be know. Added to that the fact that by the nature of the crimes committed by the CCL most victims will never come forward and those who were murdered at their hands have no one to speak for them.

Andrews opposed to extension of abuse inquiry

The Irish Times – Friday, December 24, 2010

JAMIE SMYTH and PATSY McGARRY

MINISTER OF State for Children Barry Andrews has said the Murphy commission’s remit should not be extended to investigate other dioceses as it was unlikely to teach the authorities anything new.

Speaking ahead of the presentation to the Government yesterday of the commission’s report into the Diocese of Cloyne, Mr Andrews said extending the investigation to other dioceses would be a hugely time-consuming exercise without much benefit.

“I’m not convinced the length of time and the expense would teach us any more than we know already. Anyone that has committed an offence can be prosecuted in the normal way. Any child exposed to risk will have to be protected by the HSE. I don’t think any further inquiry will teach us anything new after Cloyne,” he said.

http://www.paddydoyle.com/andrews-opposed-to-extension-of-abuse-inquiry/

Engineering the "few bad apples" defence in full confidence that it won't even be an election issue.

Nodin

Galvasean wrote: »

Visionary? Virgin Mary? Tax evasion? Is this a pattern?

Virgin, Mother Of God, Sharp Practice Accountant.....It's sort of a second holy trinity...

magicbastarder

MPs query £1.85m overseas aid spent on Pope visit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12351583

robindch

Holland:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12429539

Galvasean

So how many countries have they been doing cover ups in (that we know of)?

Tabnabs

Just to confirm that the catholic church also hid child sex abuse cases in Norway and Sweden

Catholic Pedophile Scandal expands: church admits Norwegian Bishop resigned last year after admitting he was involved in child molestation

Swedish Catholic Church hid sex abuse claims

Nodin

Galvasean wrote: »

So how many countries have they been doing cover ups in (that we know of)?

A rake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

Its notable that its almost entirely 1st world and 2nd world countries where its been exposed.

MrPudding

Nodin wrote: »

A rake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

Its notable that its almost entirely 1st world and 2nd world countries where its been exposed.

One can only imagine what is going on in the developing countries where the church has power akin to that which it had in earlier times here.

MrP

Nodin

MrPudding wrote: »

One can only imagine what is going on in the developing countries where the church has power akin to that which it had in earlier times here.

MrP

A terror, I'd imagine, given the imbalance between the colonised and the coloniser. There as here I'd imagine vast amounts will never be recorded.

cheesehead

Ancient sayings of the Church:

- "The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." – St. Athanasius

- “The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their sign posts." – St. John Chrysostom


Interesting article from this weekend's New York Times Magazine:

The Irish Affliction

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Irish-t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine

Birroc

Why haven't the church scandals being discussed in the General Election?? The Murphy and Ryan reports were 2 of the most shocking revelations during the current government. Surely we should be talking about :
* How the Vatican and its representatives treat this State
* Bringing everyone involved in the abuse/cover-ups to justice (including the vile Sean Brady)
* Redress for the victims
* State Law v Canon Law
* Removing the RCC from the Education system
* Child protection in future

Why is this not a topic for discussion?

Dades

There's lots of talk about cornering polictians on secular issues in this very forum (as initiated by Atheist Ireland).

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056159843

Nodin

PHILADELPHIA -- A former top Roman Catholic Church official has been placed on administrative leave following charges of endangering children in connection with sexual abuse by priests.

Parishioners at St. Joseph parish in Downingtown, in suburban Philadelphia, were informed at weekend Masses that Cardinal Justin Rigali had placed Monsignor William Lynn on leave as of Friday, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia said in a statement Sunday. Monsignor Joseph McLoone, pastor of St. Catherine Drexel parish in Chester, has been named parochial administrator pro-tem in St. Joseph, where Lynn has been pastor, the statement said.

Lynn, secretary of the clergy and a top official in the archdiocese from 1992 to 2004, was accused earlier this month in a scathing grand jury report of having endangered children by putting two known pedophiles in posts where they had contact with youngsters.
"The rapist priests we accuse were well-known to the secretary of clergy, but he cloaked their conduct and put them in place to do it again," the report said.

Prosecutors in the city filed felony charges of endangering the welfare of children against the 60-year-old Lynn, who also was named in a civil lawsuit filed last week against the archdiocese.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/20/AR2011022002257.html

This is apparently the first set of charges ever brought in the states against a priest for allowing known offenders to remain in contact with children....