Ongoing religious scandals

Nodin

It does seem to imply that the Bishop is the first port of call, rather than the police. Square one, in that event.

CiaranMT

Would hope so, but if true they've either no clue of how the world works nowadays, or don't give a ****.

robindch

Nodin wrote: »

It does seem to imply that the Bishop is the first port of call, rather than the police.

Not quite. It says that it's the bishop's responsibility to report to the police, in the first instance. It doesn't seem to say what's to happen if the bish does nothing. I suppose it depends on where the allegation comes from too. If another priest has received allegations, then the rules appear to say that the other priest should report to the bishop and leave it up to him to decide. Which is what I thought caused much of the original cover-up to start with.

So it seems like not much has changed, Vatican-side.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13416498

thebman

http://www.thejournal.ie/causes-of-clerical-child-abuse-in-us-revealed-by-new-report-139706-May2011/

ShooterSF

thebman wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/causes-of-clerical-child-abuse-in-us-revealed-by-new-report-139706-May2011/

Not so much funny as blood boiling.

magicbastarder

Catholic rules on celibacy are not to blame.

Stress was a factor, with many abuses by priests occuring “at times of increased job stress, social isolation, and decreased contact with peers”.

what percentage of the population at large in a similar demographic also ended up abusing kids?

Dades

^^ MOVED thebman's post above (and responses) from Humour Thread...

robindch

ShooterSF wrote: »

thebman wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/causes-of-clerical-child-abuse-in-us-revealed-by-new-report-139706-May2011/

Not so much funny as blood boiling.

As Ophelia said the other day:

Church blames abuse on Woodstock

Nodin

(AP)
AMSTERDAM — The head of a Catholic religious order in the Netherlands has confirmed one of his subordinate priests served on the board of an organization that promotes pedophilia.

Herman Spronck, head of the Dutch arm of the Salesian order, said in a statement Friday the priest served on the board of the "Martijn" organization, which is widely reviled but not illegal.

"Of course we reject this and distance ourselves from this personal initiative" on the part of the priest, Spronck's statement said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/20/501364/main20064891.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColLowerPromoArea;morenews

Out of the confession box and into the (board of a Nambla style organisation)........?

Zillah

thebman wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/causes-of-clerical-child-abuse-in-us-revealed-by-new-report-139706-May2011/

Once I felt what I could describe as a mild annoyance and slight frustration for the Catholic Church. These days I'm genuinely starting to despise them. I mean, true heartfelt contempt. I hate them. They allow their underlings to abuse thousands of children for decades and when they're dragged out into the light of day do they identify the problem, take responsibility and fix their organisation? No, they're too god damn arrogant and self-aggrandising, so they time and again blame someone else for their own sexually abusive behaviour. It was because the lay people didn't pray hard enough, it's because gay people are inherently prone to sin, it's because of a permissive atmosphere during the sixties. At no point does it occur to them that it happened because of their own broken, irresponsible and idiotic policies.

Absolute scum. I can only imagine the damage that an attitude like this does to a person who suffered at their hands.

The Catholic Church is the greatest trick the devil ever pulled.

MrPudding

I quote agree. It is a despicable organisation. As I have said before, I see the continued existence of the rcc as evidence that there is no god. What self respecting god would allow an organisation like this to continue to exist and claim to be the one true church and his real representative
on earth?

MrP

the culture of deference

Zillah wrote: »

Once I felt what I could describe as a mild annoyance and slight frustration for the Catholic Church. These days I'm genuinely starting to despise them. I mean, true heartfelt contempt. I hate them. They allow their underlings to abuse thousands of children for decades and when they're dragged out into the light of day do they identify the problem, take responsibility and fix their organisation? No, they're too god damn arrogant and self-aggrandising, so they time and again blame someone else for their own sexually abusive behaviour. It was because the lay people didn't pray hard enough, it's because gay people are inherently prone to sin, it's because of a permissive atmosphere during the sixties. At no point does it occur to them that it happened because of their own broken, irresponsible and idiotic policies.

Absolute scum. I can only imagine the damage that an attitude like this does to a person who suffered at their hands.

The Catholic Church is the greatest trick the devil ever pulled.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

I cannot fathom / understand / comprehend how catholicism still exists in this country. How stupid are its followers.

If I could create an Advertisement for RC policies and recruitment it would be

Hi, are you stupid, would you believe anything

Wanna believe in something crazier than scientology,

Wanna support an organisation that brainwashes <snip> little children, sells children to highest bidder, kills some along the way,

dont worry about getting caught, we receive protection from the state and the police

we also have murdered countless millions on our quest to be no. 1 over the years.

we will do anything to get your business

Galvasean

I was invited to a relative's Communion over the weekend. I declined going as the very taught of most of my extended family flocking to a Catholic church to 'celebrate' the indoctination of a child into such a twisted organization made me feel physically ill.

the culture of deference

Galvasean wrote: »

I was invited to a relative's Communion over the weekend. I declined going as the very taught of most of my extended family flocking to a Catholic church to 'celebrate' the indoctination of a child into such a twisted organization made me feel physically ill.

I do not attend any family church functions, i will happily wait outside and go to whatever venue afterwards. I will tell the person exactly why too.

recedite

thebman wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/causes-of-clerical-child-abuse-in-us-revealed-by-new-report-139706-May2011/

Its an interesting ploy, saying the abuse was caused by the swinging "60's and 70's". By definition, those days are over, so nothing needs to be done now to prevent a recurrence.

Also, don't forget that Mr. Ratzinger is former head of the Doctrine of the Congregation for the Faith (which itself a long time ago organised "The Inquisition") and which now deals with in-church homosexuality and paedophilia issues. So now that Ratz. is the main man, don't expect any policy change or any statement that might imply a criticism of his favourite department.

BTW anyone see the end of Frontline on RTE last night? It was a follow up to the Primetime program that was aired just before it, which gave examples of abuse perpetrated in Africa. Seems like just the tip of the iceberg too.

The guy from the Missionary Union was torn apart when he tried to claim that the recidivistic nature of paedophilia was only discovered in the 1990's. Hence there was nothing wrong with banishing known paedo priests to darkest Africa. The opposing guy quoted some canon laws I think, dating back to 1560, explaining that the RCC have known all about paedophilia for a very long time.

Its quite obvious to me that in the hierarchical world of church power, the guys at the top, like Ratzinger, have always known exactly what's going on, but the guys at the bottom are only aware of the situation in their own local area, and in their own living memory. Thus the local priest can actually believe that abuse, paedophilia etc. is a recent discovery, and therefore he optimistically waits in vain for the hierarchy to provide a solution.

the culture of deference

recedite wrote: »

Its quite obvious to me that in the hierarchical world of church power, the guys at the top, like Ratzinger, have always known exactly what's going on, but the guys at the bottom are only aware of the situation in their own local area, and in their own living memory. Thus the local priest can actually believe that abuse, paedophilia etc. is a recent discovery, and therefore he optimistically waits in vain for the hierarchy to provide a solution.

Thats their great secret.

Child gets abused. Priest meets child. Tells child they are going to hell for seducing the adult. File moved to bishop, bishop to queen cardinal etc.

At no stage are the police involved, and funny business priests are moved.

The issue here is that the bishops know everything about their area's collection of perverts.

Delirium

Priest in the archdiocese of the Pope's advisor on pedophilia is arrested for pedophilia.

The latest sex abuse case to rock the Catholic Church is unfolding in the archdiocese of an influential Italian Cardinal, who has been working with Pope Benedict XVI on reforms to respond to prior scandals of pedophile priests.

Father Riccardo Seppia, a 51 year-old parish priest in the village of Sastri Ponente, near Genoa, was arrested last Friday on pedophilia and drugs charges. Investigators say that in tapped mobile phone conversations Seppia asked a Moroccan drug dealer to arrange sexual encounters with young and vulnerable boys. "I do not want 16-year-old boys, but younger. Fourteen-year-olds are OK. Look for needy boys, who have family issues," he allegedly said. Genoa Archbishop Angelo Bagnasco, who is also head of the Italian Bishops Conference, had been working with Benedict to establish a tough new worldwide policy released this week on how bishops should handle accusations of priestly sex abuse. (Read "Vatican Gets Tough on Child Abuse, but Not Tough Enough.)

Bagnasco said when he met the Pope this weekend he "asked for a particular blessing for my archdiocese," in light of the accused crimes, adding that "like every father toward a son (feels) great pain in seeing a priest who is not faithful to his vocation."

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi praised Bagnasco's handling of the Sastri Ponente case, lauding its "timeliness and competence." On Saturday, the Cardinal also visited the Santo Spirito Church where Seppia was the parish priest.

According to investigators, Seppia told a friend -- a former seminarian and barman who is currently under investigation -- that the town's malls were the best places to entice minors. In the tapped phone conversations they cursed and swore against God. The priest is charged with having attempted to kiss and touch an under-age altar boy, and of having exchanged cocaine for sexual intercourse with boys who were over 18. (See inside Benedict XVI's daily life.)

Seppia's defense lawyers are expected to argue that those conversations - monitored since Oct. 20, 2010 - were just words, sex games that were played by adults. It was just a game even when he claimed to have "kissed on the mouth" a 15-year-old altar boy, according to the defense.

On Monday, during the formal questioning by Genoa's Investigating Magistrate Annalisa Giacalone, Seppia chose not to respond. The magistrate decided to keep him in custody to avoid a risk of relapse or tampering with evidence. Defense attorney Paolo Bonanni said that they want to evaluate all the charges, reserving the right to respond to the Public Prosecutor Stefano Puppo in the coming days.

Questioned by the investigators, the altar boy has reportedly confirmed the attempted kiss. Another male minor who, according to the investigators, was stalked with messages and pressing invitations, will be questioned soon. Psychologists are helping the Carabinieri police officers obtain testimony from the alleged victims. "The boys are ashamed to talk and to admit what happened," says one of the investigators. The evidence amounts to at least 50 messages and phone calls. In the tapped phone conversations, the drug dealer contacted the boys and gave their phone numbers to the priest, who paid them with cocaine or 50 euros each time for sexual intercourse. (Read "Controversial Study Links Catholic Abuse to '60s Culture and Church Hierarchy, but Offers Few Solutions.")

"[The investigators] made us listen to that man saying terrifying things about our children. Things so terrible that I cannot repeat them," a father of one of the boys said.
Investigators are also examining three confiscated computers. The priest allegedly looked for partners via chat as well.

Seppia is currently being kept in a confinement cell, in a Genoa prison. He met the jail's priest and psychologist. "He has read the newspapers, and he is pained by his parishioners' comments," said his lawyer. The investigation is ongoing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20110520/wl_time/08599207261300

mikhail

I just came here to post that myself. Finally, the church's policy on child abuse makes sense.

thebman

mikhail wrote: »

I just came here to post that myself. Finally, the church's policy on child abuse makes sense.

I'm honestly starting to believe its akin to sleeping your way to the top. You can only get promoted in the church if your into this kind of thing.

Explains why when I was younger and still attending church, all the priests everyone thought were the best would never move up in this corrupt, unethical organisation.

Like seriously, no credibility, none whatsoever has this organisation. I'd make it an illegal organisation if I had the power.

Galvasean

^^ Those are some seriously poor excuses. Do they really believe in God at all. Ad telling lies to his list of sins.
Sometimes I wishe God, hell etc. was real. At least these fiends would truly get what was coming to them. I can imagine it's not the atheists and homosexuals who would have special places rserved for them..

the culture of deference

thebman wrote: »

I'm honestly starting to believe its akin to sleeping your way to the top. You can only get promoted in the church if your into this kind of thing.

Explains why when I was younger and still attending church, all the priests everyone thought were the best would never move up in this corrupt, unethical organisation.

Like seriously, no credibility, none whatsoever has this organisation. I'd make it an illegal organisation if I had the power.

This sounds like politics too.

The decent human beings who want to dedicate their life to something get dominated by the loud mouth eogtistical fools who sway the voters.

maringo

RC church is a totally discredited organisation at this stage. Can't understand how some people need a corrupt organisation like that to intercede between them and God. The sooner they are out of control of schools the better is what I say. They seem to still think they are above the law of the land with their internal "code of conduct". As Colm O'Gorman said recently THEY are the world experts on paedophilia. They have been at it for centuries and are skilled in the cover-up of this crime against children. It is outrageous to hear them say time and time again that they did'nt realise what was going on over the years. They have ruined so many young lives. :mad:

the culture of deference

About time too.


I have highlighted the main issues concerning the failure of our state to protect us, and their attitude now.



The Government should set up a statutory investigation into allegations of torture and degrading treatment against women committed to Magdalene Laundries.


It should also punish the perpetrators and provide redress to the women who suffered, the United Nations Committee Against Torture has recommended.


In a report detailing its "concluding observations" on Ireland's record of protecting the rights of those in detention, the committee has also strongly criticised the State's "inadequate" response to alleged reports that it cooperated with rendition flights.


The report, which was published this morning following two days of hearings before the committee in Geneva last month, also criticises the conditions in Irish prisons, the treatment of asylum seekers and the State's failure to prosecute anyone from evidence gathered in the Ryan report into abuse of children in residential institutions.


In a series of recommendations regarding the alleged committal of women to Magdalene Laundries, the committee says it is "gravely concerned" at the failure by the State party to protect the girls and women. It criticises the State for failing to regulate or inspect the laundries, where it is alleged physical, emotional abuses and other ill-treatment were committed. These may have amounted to violations of the UN convention against torture, according the report.


"The Committee also expresses grave concern at the failure by the State party to institute prompt, independent and thorough investigation into the allegations of ill-treatment perpetrated on girls and women in the Magdalene Laundries," it says


The committee recommends the State institute "prompt, independent, and thorough investigations into all allegations of torture, and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".


It says in appropriate cases, it should prosecute and punish the perpetrators with penalties commensurate with the gravity of the offences committed. It should also ensure that all victims obtain redress and have an enforceable right to compensation including the means for as full rehabilitation, says the report.


Minister for Justice Alan Shatter is expected to announce later this week how the Government plans to respond to the Magdalene Laundry issue.
At the committee hearing in Geneva last month Department of Justice secretary general Seán Aylward said the State couldn't "rewrite its history" with regard to the Magdalene laundries.


"Some of the issues that are raised and looked at in the Ryan report and that have been raised in relation to the Magdalene laundries relate to a very distant, far-off time," said Mr Aylward in his initial response to the committee's questions and observations.


"Many of the people who suffered in that period or were victims of it are no longer with us and it would be very difficult for the State to rewrite its history or right the wrongs that were done," he said.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0606/breaking4.html


Really sounds about typical for ireland doesn't it.


Anyone here really think anything gonna be considering the same people are running our kids schools.

sponsoredwalk

Never heard much about this tbh but checking it out:

The story of the Magdalene women was uncovered in 1993 when a
religious order in Dublin cashed in on the booming Irish property market
and sold a portion of its land to a developer. The bodies of 155 women
who had died in the laundry were exhumed from unmarked graves and
the media began to ask questions.
link

WTF!!! :eek:

However, there is evidence that the state was involved. The Irish courts
routinely sent women who were handed down a suspended sentence for
petty crimes to the laundries, which operated as a kind of parallel
detention system.

Public records show the government also awarded lucrative contracts to
the nuns for its army and hospital laundry without ever insisting on fair
wages for the “workers,” nor did it inspect conditions inside.

Testimony from Magdalene women claim that state employees like the
Irish police force and social workers brought women to the laundries
and returned those who had escaped.

Since 2001, the Irish government has acknowledged that women in the
Magdalene laundries were abuse victims. However, the Irish government
has resisted calls for investigation and proposals for compensation; the
government maintains that the laundries were privately run,
therefore abuses at the laundries are outside of the government's
remit.[3] In contrast to these claims, evidence exists that Irish courts
routinely sent women convicted petty crimes to the laundries,
the government awarded lucrative contracts to the laundries
without any insistence on protection and fair treatment of its
workers, and Irish state employees helped to keep laundry facilities
stocked with workers by bringing women to the laundries and returning
escaped workers.
link

I think those who have more recently claimed that this was outside of
the governments remit should, at least, be fired for covering up state-
sponsored abuse, at most thrown in a cell for such apolistics. It takes
something else to be aware of such actions only to cover them up, real
depravity...

Pygmalion

Since 2001, the Irish government has acknowledged that women in the
Magdalene laundries were abuse victims. However, the Irish government
has resisted calls for investigation and proposals for compensation; the
government maintains that the laundries were privately run,
therefore abuses at the laundries are outside of the government's
remit.

Even if this were true, are they trying to say that they don't have the authority to investigate and punish those responsible for the abuse?
I rarely hear of murderers getting off because it's not within the government's power to punish them as it was a private affair.

the culture of deference

Pygmalion wrote: »

Even if this were true, are they trying to say that they don't have the authority to investigate and punish those responsible for the abuse?
I rarely hear of murderers getting off because it's not within the government's power to punish them as it was a private affair.

"Some of the issues that are raised and looked at in the Ryan report and that have been raised in relation to the Magdalene laundries relate to a very distant, far-off time," said Mr Aylward

"Many of the people who suffered in that period or were victims of it are no longer with us and it would be very difficult for the State to rewrite its history or right the wrongs that were done," he said.

Pygmalion

the culture of deference wrote: »

"Some of the issues that are raised and looked at in the Ryan report and that have been raised in relation to the Magdalene laundries relate to a very distant, far-off time," said Mr Aylward

With many of the perpetrators still alive and unpunished.

"Many of the people who suffered in that period or were victims of it are no longer with us and it would be very difficult for the State to rewrite its history or right the wrongs that were done," he said.

Punishing people for crimes never rewrites history, and it never undoes the harm that was done, but it still happens, and it should apply equally to all, regardless of their beliefs or status within society.

robindch

Scientologists. Australia.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/06/jan_eastgate.php

maringo

People might not know some of the background of the unfortunate women who ended up in Magdalen launderies. If you go further down the page on the below link is a detailed report on the finding of bodies of women some of whose deaths were not even registered. It seems the law was broken but seems there's one law for some and no law for others in this little island of ours. It makes very disturbing reading

http://www.catholicabusesurvivorsni.com/?page_id=6

robindch

Catholic Christian Brothers. Australia. Appalling.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-can-still-hear-the-kids-screams-20110611-1fyap.html