Ongoing religious scandals

--amadeus--

News says that a criminal investigation is "likely"; probably perverting the course of justice

pljudge321

Letter Written in to the Irishtimes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0319/1224266596021.html

Madam, – As we celebrated the Feast of St Patrick, how ironic that Cardinal Seán Brady and former auxiliary bishops of Dublin, who have given their lives carrying on the work of Patrick, trying to make the love of Christ a reality in the lives of people, are now being vilified and castigated for not being perfect. Christ did not choose angels to preach His Gospel, He chose frail, imperfect human beings like you and me who would and could, like you and me, make mistakes from time to time.
The same Christ one time said “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8v7).



Yours, etc,


Fr CON McGILLICUDDY,
Grace Park Road,
Drumcondra,
Dublin 9.

I would like to lead a collective middle finger gesture in Con McGillicuddy's direction on behalf of the abuse victims.

Dades

Fr CON McGILLICUDDY wrote:

He chose frail, imperfect human beings like you and me who would and could, like you and me, make mistakes from time to time

Mistakes which if made by someone in any other walk of life would see them vilified or imprisoned too.

So not just the particular walk of life that self-appoints itself as the moral guardians of the State.

robindch

Andrew Madden, one of the earlier abuse victims to go public, made a distinctly withering remark about Dr Brady the other day:

Andrew Madden wrote:

If the Catholic Church in Ireland is to be led by a man who accurately reflects it in its current state, then maybe it's only right and fitting that it should be led by a man who has covered up the sexual abuse of children by a priest.

Ouch.

Galvasean

sink wrote: »

Brady applauded at Armagh mass

Makes me sick. He's as much as admitted to a criminal conspiracy to protect child rapists and his fucking parishioners applaud him.

I know you arent supposed to call religious people ignorant mush-heads, but that is the behaviour exhibited by ignorant mush-heads.
I wonder what he would have to do to lose the support of such people? I bet if he sacrificed a live a baby on the altar some of tham would say he was right to do so.

pljudge321 wrote: »

Letter Written in to the Irishtimes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0319/1224266596021.html

I would like to lead a collective middle finger gesture in Con McGillicuddy's direction on behalf of the abuse victims.

Indeed. The same letter was published in yesterday's Indo. The replies today were interesting. One in particular said something along the lines of, "'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'? Well sir, I have never molested a child or refused to intervene when I saw such a thing happen so I will glady throw bricks, rocks, boulders or anything I can find to stop the likes of you!"

edit: here it is.

(I actually paraphrased two different letters there)

Mark Hamill

Galvasean wrote: »

Indeed. The same letter was published in yesterday's Indo. The replies today were interesting. One in particular said something along the lines of, "'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'? Well sir, I have never molested a child or refused to intervene when I saw such a thing happen so I will glady throw bricks, rocks, boulders or anything I can find to stop the likes of you!"

You have to question why all these people who say "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" aren't at their local courthouses and prisons looking for every criminals release, as thanks to original sin, no-one is without sin.

Galvasean

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You have to question why all these people who say "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" aren't at their local courthouses and prisons looking for every criminals release, as thanks to original sin, no-one is without sin.

'Sin' is very vague. Somehow I don't think wearing clothes made of more than one fabric is in the same league as raping and murdering innocent children.

PeterIanStaker

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0320/abuse.html


Pope "truly sorry". . . .truly sorry they got caught, more like.

robindch

The Vatican's "pastoral letter" has been put up on the Vatican's website:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20100319_church-ireland_en.html

It's 4,700 words long and no fun to read.

.

PeterIanStaker

Ok, I just skimmed through it there, it is as you say, hand wringing - some parts would make you cringe:

"Through intense prayer before the real presence of the Lord, you can make reparation for the sins of abuse that have done so much harm, at the same time imploring the grace of renewed strength and a deeper sense of mission on the part of all bishops, priests, religious and lay faithful. I am confident that this programme will lead to a rebirth of the Church in Ireland in the fullness of God’s own truth, for it is the truth that sets us free (cf. Jn 8:32)."


That is, to me, pretentious self righteous bull$h!t as only the Vatican can. This letter makes me feel hopeless.

robindch

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

This letter makes me feel hopeless.

Have just finished a first reading of it, but it's vague, contradictory and difficult, if not impossible, to understand quite what on earth Ratzinger is trying to say. Some of the sections produce basic reasons for the abuse but what's there is incomplete. Then he goes off and appears on several occasions to imply, or come very close to implying, that canon law trumps state law (see section 11 particularly).

What's missing though is an admission that the Vatican had any part to play, even something as simple as admitting that they appointed the bishops that oversaw this scandal. They talk about updating their procedures, but play down reporting suspicions to the police. He implies that guilty religious should give themselves up, but does not openly call for it.

But ultimately, having read this turgid document, Ratzinger's view is that the problem can only be solved by people becoming still more religious, not less. It's not surprising for a man in his position to say this, but to say the very least -- it's denied by the facts.

branie

What's your opinion on it? I feel that he is genuinely remorseful.

Zombrex

branie wrote: »

What's your opinion on it? I feel that he is genuinely remorseful.

Don't care.

I don't care if the Pope never apologizes if he puts in place systems that ensure this type of thing cannot happen.

I don't care if every priest in the world apologizes if they don't put in place system that ensure this type of thing cannot happen.

Apologizing is irrelevant without action.

Hagar

Not a chance, it's a PR job pure and simple.

Ghost Buster

you must answer for it before Almighty God and before properly constituted tribunals.
That line alone speaks volumes. They must answer before a fictional being and tribunals held by believers in the fictional. Why does he not reccomend that they turn them selves in to the law?
Oh yeah. The church is above the real law. they have their own.

Genghiz Cohen

Sorry they got caught, maybe.

checkyabadself

I must admit that I`m surprised that he apologized, even if it is PR spin.

I still think that no words can dig them out of this hole. There`s too much damage for even the "faithful" to accept this apology.

Hopefully there will be a nationwide report similar to the Ryan/Murphy/Ferns that will bring the church down, or even if they continue to trickle out area by area. That should see it imploding in my lifetime, hopefully.

Daftendirekt

Here's a link if you want to read it.

Adobe Reader crashed on me before I could finish and won't let me back in now, but what I did read was unsurprisingly unimpressive.

Alongside the apologies, there's a lot of waffle that seems aimed at expressing the point that the CC is experiencing tough times at the moment and seems to be quite subtly trying to elicit sympathy for the abusers as well as the abused. I also noticed some puke in there about the redemptive power of Christ's unjust suffering. I'm not sure if he's drawing a parallel between the suffering of Christ and the abuse victims, or if he's imploring people to forgive those involved in the abuse.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but if I was one of the victims, I'd be feeling pretty let down by this. It's not even the empty words and lack of action from the CC, it's the fact that it comes across as though all the apologising is merely a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. The end being, of course, the restoration of the Catholic Church's image.

Ghost Buster

checkyabadself wrote: »

I must admit that I`m surprised that he apologized, even if it is PR spin.

I still think that no words can dig them out of this hole. There`s too much damage for even the "faithful" to accept this apology.

Hopefully there will be a nationwide report similar to the Ryan/Murphy/Ferns that will bring the church down, or even if they continue to trickle out area by area. That should see it imploding in my lifetime, hopefully.

There`s too much damage for even the "faithful" to accept this apology.
A nice thought but after Brady getting a round of applause I think you are being naieve (no offense).

checkyabadself

Ghost Buster wrote: »

There`s too much damage for even the "faithful" to accept this apology.
A nice thought but after Brady getting a round of applause I think you are being naieve (no offense).

You`re probably right, I suppose. What does it take for these people to demand justice, I mean we`re talking about raping children.
Seriously what worse could be done for these people to draw a line and say "this fella needs to go to jail". I`m not asking for them to give up their faith, just at what point will followers of the church say enough is enough?

robindch

branie wrote: »

I feel that he is genuinely remorseful.

I don't, because I see no section in which either (a) he takes personal responsibility himself for anything or (b) the institutional (rather than national) church takes responsibility for anything.

The closest he gets is simply to say that he is sorry that something bad has happened -- that's not an apology, though it looks like once since it uses the word "sorry".

.

GLaDOS

robindch wrote: »

The Vatican's "pastoral letter" has been put up on the Vatican's website:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20100319_church-ireland_en.html

It's 4,700 words long and no fun to read.

.

They really need a TL;DR version

Daftendirekt

Right, I just finished reading the whole thing, and it's actually worse than I initially thought.

If you can't be bothered wading through the whole thing, at least have a gander at the important part:

14. I now wish to propose to you some concrete initiatives to address the
situation.

At the conclusion of my meeting with the Irish bishops, I asked that
Lent this year be set aside as a time to pray for an outpouring of God’s
mercy and the Holy Spirit’s gifts of holiness and strength upon the Church
in your country. I now invite all of you to devote your Friday penances, for a
period of one year, between now and Easter 2011, to this intention. I ask
you to offer up your fasting, your prayer, your reading of Scripture and your
works of mercy in order to obtain the grace of healing and renewal for the
Church in Ireland. I encourage you to discover anew the sacrament of
Reconciliation and to avail yourselves more frequently of the transforming
power of its grace.

Particular attention should also be given to Eucharistic adoration, and
in every diocese there should be churches or chapels specifically devoted
to this purpose. I ask parishes, seminaries, religious houses and
monasteries to organize periods of Eucharistic adoration, so that all have
an opportunity to take part. Through intense prayer before the real
presence of the Lord, you can make reparation for the sins of abuse that
have done so much harm, at the same time imploring the grace of renewed
strength and a deeper sense of mission on the part of all bishops, priests,
religious and lay faithful.

I am confident that this programme will lead to a rebirth of the Church
in Ireland in the fullness of God’s own truth, for it is the truth that sets us
free (cf. Jn 8:32).

Furthermore, having consulted and prayed about the matter, I intend
to hold an Apostolic Visitation of certain dioceses in Ireland, as well as
seminaries and religious congregations. Arrangements for the Visitation,
which is intended to assist the local Church on her path of renewal, will be
made in cooperation with the competent offices of the Roman Curia and the
Irish Episcopal Conference. The details will be announced in due course.
I also propose that a nationwide Mission be held for all bishops,
priests and religious. It is my hope that, by drawing on the expertise of
experienced preachers and retreat-givers from Ireland and from elsewhere,
and by exploring anew the conciliar documents, the liturgical rites of
ordination and profession, and recent pontifical teaching, you will come to a
more profound appreciation of your respective vocations, so as to
rediscover the roots of your faith in Jesus Christ and to drink deeply from
the springs of living water that he offers you through his Church.

I wouldn't even call this a feeble attempt.

It also confirms my initial thoughts: this isn't about making it up to the victims, it's about repairing the image of the church.

Busi_Girl08

ScienceNerd wrote: »

They really need a TL;DR version

TL;DR version.

Naughty priests - *slaps wrist* don't do that again. Pray lots.

Abused children - Sawy!! Pray lots. What Would Jesus Do?

Religious of Ireland - The Church is still awesome, make sure to pray lots.

So all we needed to do was pray :rolleyes:

Hagar

"Suffer little children" Page X : Book of Invisible Man

robindch

Looks like somebody (cough) has summarized the letter on the wiki page for catholic sex abuse cases in Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Ireland#Pastoral_Letter_from_the_Pope_Benedict

PeterIanStaker

Abuse survivors' group welcomes Papal apology

Sunday, 21 March 2010 10:36
An organisation representing many former residents of industrial schools has thanked Pope Benedict XVI for 'his unprecedented apology' to victims of abuse by priests and religious.
The Pontiff said in his pastoral letter to Irish Catholics that he was 'truly sorry' for the abuse victims and their families suffered in the church's name.
The main points of the letter will be read out at masses today.
Irish Survivors of Child Abuse welcomed the Pontiff's commitment to personally intervene in the workings of the Irish church to bring about reform and renewal.
Yesterday's letter was partly prompted by last May's Ryan Report on abuse in Catholic-run industrial schools and reformatories.
In a statement, Irish SOCA says it 'represents a highly emotional and long overdue' Papal apology to victims.
It calls the letter a first step on the road to healing for many who had lost faith in the church.
The organisation says it will be seeking an urgent meeting with All-Ireland Primate Cardinal Seán Brady to discuss its request to the Pope to establish a Commission or Consistory Court of the Holy See to examine misconduct by Catholic priests and religious in Ireland.
However, some survivors groups, including One-in-Four, and abuse victim Andrew Madden said they were disappointed with the letter as it did not go far enough.
In his letter, Pope Benedict acknowledged that in the past there had been a misplaced emphasis on the church's reputation and called for decisive action to restore people's respect and goodwill.
'I can only share in the dismay and the sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way church authorities in Ireland dealt with them,' he said.
'Together with the immense harm done to victims, great damage has been done to the church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life.'
Cardinal Brady, who has said he would take a period of time to reflect on his future, asked people to read the letter with an open heart.
'In the name of the church, Pope Benedict openly expresses the shame and remorse that we all feel about the abuse that has occurred,' the cardinal said.
'He expresses the depth of the pain that has been caused and acknowledges that some people find it difficult even to go inside the doors of a church after all that has occurred.'
The Pontiff expressed willingness to meet victims and said there would be 'apostolic visitation' of some Dioceses.
He also told religious figures who had abused children to answer for their actions before properly constituted tribunals.
Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin welcomed the pastoral letter as a further step in the church's renewal and healing process.
'It deals with a dramatically painful chapter in the lives of the many who were abused,' he told mass goers in Dublin last night.
'The church tragically failed many of its children: it failed through abuse, it failed through not preventing abuse, it failed through covering up abuse.'
Elsewhere, Bishop Jim Moriarty has said the letter indicates the seriousness with which the Pope regards the current crisis and his heartfelt concern for the abused.
In December, the bishop tendered his resignation for failing to challenge the prevailing culture in the Archdiocese of Dublin when he was an auxiliary bishop there.
He has said that he expects the Pope to accept it late next month.
Swiss priest suggests sex abuse register
A Swiss priest has called on the Vatican to set up an international register of Catholic clergy who have been reported for sex abuse.

Martin Werlen, a member of the Swiss Bishops Conference, said he fears that the Catholic hierarchy has failed to take the impact of the latest child sex abuse seriously enough.

He told the Sonntagsblick newspaper that an official Swiss church body that deals with sex abuse has discussed the idea of 'a central office in Rome, which would register church people who have been reported.'
Such a list, he said, could be consulted by bishops 'anywhere in the world' when they make appointments.
'When, for example, a European priest applies in a US diocese, then the bishop can check with Rome if he is charged with something'" he added.
'Such an office would ensure more transparency worldwide.'

from rte.ie/news

PeterIanStaker

They should not welcome this, they should tell him to get stuffed & resign. Is "welcoming" this halfbaked cringe inducing ****e being diplomatic?

Busi_Girl08

I really abhor the phrase "clerical abuse survivors"

They are still victims every bloody day while there are still some blind, brainwashed idiots following the church and asking people to "move on" :mad:

PeterIanStaker

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

I really abhor the phrase "clerical abuse survivors"

They are still victims every bloody day while there are still some blind, brainwashed idiots following the church and asking people to "move on" :mad:

Agree, which is why they should reject this whitewash by the RCC.