Ongoing religious scandals

Paparazzo

recedite wrote: »

If those stories were true, they would constitute serious (mafia style) crime and fraud. The storytellers should be talking to the Gardai, not Joe Duffy.

Lots have, But probably most haven't. The stories of abuse we hear is the tip if the iceberg. According to one report (ferns I think) when priests were questioned and admitted so much they reckon about 95% is unreported by victims.

People saw punishments like getting your hand pressed against a hotplate, people dying because they weren't allowed out for proper medical treatment for illness, 7 and 8 year old girls beaten so they won't tell their parents they're being used for slave labour instead of getting an education.
The list goes on, shocking stuff. Amazing if you know any kids that age yourself, thinking what type of people could do that type of stuff to them.

Arcus Arrow

20/07/2011
9.30 PM this evening TG4

Magdalene Laundries – The Forgotten Maggies

'The Forgotten Maggies' is a compelling and intense documentary, exposing the real truth of Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries. Maureen Sullivan, Kathleen Legg, Mary King, Marina Gambold, Mary Smyth, Maureen Taylor, Mary Condon, Josephine Meade & Mary Collins reveal for the first time how the Irish State & Catholic Church colluded together in suppressing innocent women at Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries. 'The Forgotten Maggies' gives a voice to those who have not been heard.

maringo

Slavery in the name of Christianity. How low can they go? :mad:

Paparazzo

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

20/07/2011
9.30 PM this evening TG4

Magdalene Laundries – The Forgotten Maggies

'The Forgotten Maggies' is a compelling and intense documentary, exposing the real truth of Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries. Maureen Sullivan, Kathleen Legg, Mary King, Marina Gambold, Mary Smyth, Maureen Taylor, Mary Condon, Josephine Meade & Mary Collins reveal for the first time how the Irish State & Catholic Church colluded together in suppressing innocent women at Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries. 'The Forgotten Maggies' gives a voice to those who have not been heard.

Just watched it, the bit where I think it was Mary Collins read out a statement was crazy. And it went on for another 50 minutes!

Arcus Arrow

maringo wrote: »

Slavery in the name of Christianity. How low can they go? :mad:

In February this year during a foot washing ceremony of "atonement" Mary Smith, who was featured in the programme, and Paddy Doyle were refused entry into the Pro Cathedral to hand in a letter of protest. Security told them it was not possible after going inside and checking. After the ceremony Archbishop Diarmid Martin said he hadn't been made aware of it and they should have been allowed in. If the world must have a Pope I think things might be a lot better if it was him rather than Ratzinger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gDSLfZmfkQ

Nodin

recedite wrote: »

If those stories were true, they would constitute serious (mafia style) crime and fraud. The storytellers should be talking to the Gardai, not Joe Duffy.

The artane home making a vast profit while the lads had shag all blankets etc was in the Ryan commission report I think. Four hundred thousand pound a year back in the 60's, if memory serves.

recedite

Nodin wrote: »

The artane home making a vast profit while the lads had shag all blankets etc

I thought the "profit" was going towards funding the Christian Brothers themselves ( ie their food and clothing) but if they were repatriating large profits out of this country, back to the Vatican, like some multi national corporation, while the kids went cold and hungry, that is a lot worse.

Nodin

recedite wrote: »

I thought the "profit" was going towards funding the Christian Brothers themselves ( ie their food and clothing) but if they were repatriating large profits out of this country, back to the Vatican, like some multi national corporation, while the kids went cold and hungry, that is a lot worse.

Don't remember any commentary on that, tbh.

recedite

Joe Duffy's callers....

Paparazzo wrote: »

Another was saying that the Artane Boys school got £12,000 a month from the state to help run it. The priests used 2k of the money and sent the rest to the Vatican.

magicbastarder

http://www.thejournal.ie/catholic-church-apologises-for-forced-adoptions-in-australia-186442-Jul2011/

MrPudding

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/catholic-church-apologises-for-forced-adoptions-in-australia-186442-Jul2011/

Yet another apology after being caught. These fcukers know exactly what they have done over the years. It would be nice if they apologised for something before it was uncovered by someone.

MrP

magicbastarder

the figure of 150,000 boggles the mind. that's an average of at least 16,000 a year.

CiaranMT

Same sh*t, different religion

Oz Telegraph wrote:

NSW rabbis brawl over child abuse


ONE of the state's most high profile Jewish leaders is fighting off calls for his resignation after he urged rabbis not to report allegations of child abuse to the police.

Rabbi Yosef Feldman, president of the Rabbinical Council of NSW and based at the Southern Sydney Synagogue, has sparked outrage in a series of emails to other rabbis when he said it should be up to them to determine whether a paedophile should be reported to authorities.

The rabbi also said that, where possible, allegations of abuse should be dealt with outside the Australian legal system.

Rabbis could instead "threaten" the child abuser with publicity of their crime as an alternative to reporting it.

"I really don't understand why as soon as something of serious loshon horo (evil talk) is heard about someone of even child molestation should we immediately go to the secular authorities (sic)," Rabbi Feldman wrote.


"One must go to a Rov (rabbi) who should firstly investigate the veracity of the complaint and if thought to be serious, warn the culprit etc. and act in a way that could scare him by threatening him with publicity by internet to the whole community.

"I personally feel that if we as a Jewish leadership can't deal with this and other issues bifnim (internally) we are showing ourselves to be impotent."

He also argued anyone who reported a paedophile would be responsible if the paedophile was raped in prison.

Rabbi Feldman's comments are not the first time a religious leader has caused uproar over their stance on sexual assault.

In 2006 Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali likened women would dressed immodestly to "uncovered meat" and suggested it was their fault if a man assaulted them.

The comments come as the Catholic Church in Australia resists calls for an end to the legal sanctity of confessional, which would require priests to report confessions of child abuse.

But Rabbi Feldman did not shy away from the statements when contacted last week.

Instead he insisted the issue was a "grey area" and that as well as the victim the rabbi had to be mindful of the welfare of the abuser.

"If there is a grey area then we have to look at the Jewish perspective and the human rights of the aggressor," he told the Australian Jewish News.

Rabbi Feldman was unable to comment yesterday because Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath, or day of rest, and he was not permitted to conduct business.

The remarks have outraged in the Jewish community with others on the rabbinical council demanding he step down - calls which Rabbi Feldman has so far resisted.

The Organisation of Rabbis of Australasia have also slammed the comments as "abhorred" and have said a rabbi must "100 per cent" go immediately to authorities regarding matters of child abuse or molestation.

The Rabbinical Council of NSW - which Rabbi Feldman is president of - have also rejected his view.

Last week the council passed a motion condemning all forms of child abuse and affirming any prohibition of reporting crimes to police do not apply in cases of child abuse.

MrPudding

The catholic apologists must be delighted. More options for whataboutery.

MrP

recedite

"Rabbi Feldman was unable to comment yesterday because Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath, or day of rest, and he was not permitted to conduct business"

Very convenient

Arcus Arrow

And today in Dublin there was a small protest about the unaccounted for bodies found when the nuns decided to sell of some of their land for profit. The convent had previously been the site of a Magdalene laundry. During the protest one of the congregation came out of the cathedral and did what appears to praying for or about the protest or whatever. He didn't say exactly what he was trying to achieve by communicating telepathically with his other world overlord or maybe he was just meditating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOIrgmDuDJg&feature=player_embedded

robindch

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

And today in Dublin there was a small protest about the unaccounted for bodies found when the nuns decided to sell of some of their land for profit.

In many ways, that's the most upsetting of all the religious scandals that's come to light recently -- not only did the church not give a flying fiddlers about these kids when they were alive, they didn't even give a shit when they died :mad:

Arcus Arrow

robindch wrote: »

In many ways, that's the most upsetting of all the religious scandals that's come to light recently -- not only did the church not give a flying fiddlers about these kids when they were alive, they didn't even give a shit when they died :mad:

And even worse...neither did the Irish Catholic State the nuns were tossed the extra death certs like they were bin bag stickers and allowed to cremated the bodies. The state which is supposed to protect it's citizens doesn't even bat an eyelid or investigate the deaths. The gravedigger who got the job said a lot of the corpses had plaster casts on various limbs. We'll never know if they were beaten to death, died of natural causes or were starved into submission. All the while the vestal virgins were making money from slavery.

And today in O'Connell street I saw an old woman ask a nun if she's kiss her cross as if the withered old bat in the chain mail tights had magic powers...

fontanalis

So says the a**hole
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0824/abuse.html#article

Arcus Arrow

He has promised to publish the findings of the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church when he receives them, which is likely to be next month.

How very nice of him, my hoop. It shouldn't even be up to the bol**cks whether the report should or shouldn't be released. Every dioceses of the CCL should be investigated and anyone who covered up child rape and torture should be charged in criminal court.

Galvasean

I think he meant to say Ireland's children were being penetrated by the 'arrows' of Catholic priests :rolleyes:

robindch

^^^

GLaDOS

He says secular like it's a bad thing. Though I suppose when you used to control the country 20 years ago, it is...

Delirium

It's hardly surprising that people are doing to be somewhat hostile to the RCC considering the massive betrayal of trust/abuse of its power it was involved in for decades in this country.

Dades

koth wrote: »

It's hardly surprising that people are doing to be somewhat hostile to the RCC considering the massive betrayal of trust/abuse of its power it was involved in for decades in this country.

This is the blindingly obvious point that seems to still elude senior members of the clergy speaking about such matters.

Kila

Oh, yeah, and I suppose there were some priests that did stuff too, but godless society!

STEVEN CARROLL

THE CATHOLIC Church is experiencing a testing time, having been rocked by the barbs of a “secular and godless culture” on the outside and the “sins and crimes of priests” within, Bishop Philip Boyce of Raphoe has said.

Dr Boyce, who has promised to publish a report into clerical abuse in his diocese soon, urged Catholics not to lose confidence in their faith and to act with hope and patience during the current difficult times for the church.

“The moment of history we live through in Ireland at present is certainly a testing one for the church and for all of us,” he said. “Attacked from the outside by the arrows of a secular and godless culture, rocked from the inside by the sins and crimes of priests and consecrated people, we all feel the temptation to lose confidence.”

Dr Boyce said the current troubles seemed to be the worst ever for the church but that this was “simply because they are the ones we struggle through at present”.

“Simply to worry and fret makes the anguish fester within us. We do not deny them but rather take them as our share in Christ’s redeeming sufferings.”

Dr Boyce made the comments, which were not released to journalists until Tuesday night, during the novena at the Marian shrine in Knock, Co Mayo, at the weekend.

The review of the diocese by the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church investigated all complaints or allegations of clerical child sex abuse made to the diocese between 1975 and this year. It is expected to be published next month.

The diocese was previously accused of covering up abuse perpetrated by convicted paedophile Fr Eugene Greene, who served as a priest in Raphoe in the 1980s and early 1990s.

To date, six dioceses have been audited fully by the board. It is hoped the process will be completed in all 26 dioceses by mid-2012.

Dr Boyce has said all allegations made known to the Raphoe diocese were reported to the Garda and the Health Service Executive, and that he gave the inquiry team his full co-operation and access to diocese files.

Earlier this month, Dr Boyce, who has seen draft copies of the board’s report, described an article in the Irish Independent about the inquiry as “alarmist” and “not in the public interest”.

It said “hundreds and hundreds of victims” in the diocese were abused “again and again”, while the church “actively prevented” investigations by the civil authorities. He said he intended to complain formally about the matter.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0825/1224302935442.html

I think that what I resent most here is the implied grouping of atheists and other secular people with the rapist priests as the ultimate downfall of the church. That and the absolutely nauseating notion that this is just his shared burden with christ, and that his having to suffer news reports about the dirty dealings of the parish is somehow going to bring him closer to christ because he's sharing the suffering.

I plan to blog about this properly later, but all I can think of right now is "hey, leave me out of this pal". Frankly, the downfall of the church was brought about, in large part, by the actions of the church. Paedophile priests have nothing to do with godless and secular society, and the church has far greater problems to solve than a few people not believing in it. Personally, I find the idea of him considering this suffering and a test of faith absolutely repellent. Want suffering - try talking to the victims of the abuse that you and your peers covered up. You think hearing about it is sharing in the burden of christ? Try actually living through it.

Uff! Sometimes these people make me so angry...

Dades

Two new threads on this article have been moved here.

No need for a new thread every time someone in a frock says something stupid.

Kila

Sorry about that Dades

Galvasean

There really are no two ways about it, it wasn't a Godless or secular society that brought about these atrocities, it was quite clearly a very Catholic society!
The attempts at deflecting the blame toward secularism are pathetic and would be funny if the issue was not so sickeningly serious.

mehfesto

I think it's gas.

They're a bunch of liars, they got found out and they're too stupid to realise that the only way forward for them is to admit fault. Bishop Boyce can blame outside forces all he wants. Nobody who isn't a Catholic-nut will believe him. If he genuinely thinks that priests and nuns abusing people, isn't worth investigating for the sake of human decency at the very least, then let him and his shoddy organisation continue.

By the time they realise they have to change their ways, they'll be as relevant as the National Scrabble League.