Ongoing religious scandals

Galvasean

ISAW wrote: »

And I replied to it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78212894&postcount=1052

I dont think you seem interested in reading replies to your requests and acknowledging them.

Not really negating my point there ISAW.

ISAW wrote: »

Not alone that I specifically PM yu with several links relating to atheistic groups which persecuted people in the name of spreading atheism and attacking religion

Yeah, you PM'd me a bunch of wikipedia links about nasty atheist groups of the past in relation to a point that was made n another thread and once again did nothing to negate the point I made.
Don't bother PMing me again.

marienbad

ISAW wrote: »

I know it isnt restricted. What i mean is the posts made by posters are restricted to posts about Roman Catholic clergy.

1079 posts
excluding the one I posted about Buddhism or about atheism as a religion

How many of them about abuse by religious other than roman catholic clergy?
do you not see my point?

The solution is in your own hands ISAW, find those stories and post them ! That fact that you are quicker the most when in comes to links and that you have not done so in this case may be an indication that those links simply are'nt there - no ?

You keep complaining about anti-catholic bias, but if there is one that comes out in these threads from time to time I would suggest that you are one of the major causes of that by your refusal to see the scale of the problem within the church and to resort to the most legalistic tactics to close down any argument or discussion.

You accuse others of not having a open mind when your own is firmly shut.

ISAW

Galvasean wrote: »

Not really negating my point there ISAW.

Totally negating your point made to Marienbad about me not posting about other non RC religions as in that post i draw attention to the fact that I posted about other religions and that i did so in reply to your comment of
"I don't think he is interested at addressing the imbalance"
The "imbalance" being posting non catholic abuse
when you had already been given a reply.

Not alone that I also addressed comparing one religion to another when religions constitute a tiny proportion f the abusers.

Galvasean

You do realise that you have been invited to post examples of abuse from other religions on numerous occasions and you have sidestepped this in favour of continuously complaining about a perceived bias?

Enough! Every single thread is becoming an ISAW soapbox at this stage. To quote a spinach eating sailor, "I can't stands it no mores!" Life is too short.
It is with regret (and arguably not before it's time) that I ad someone to my ignore list for only the second time in my near six years of boards.ie usage.
Good luck to all concerned.

Delirium

ISAW wrote: »

I know it isnt restricted. What i mean is the posts made by posters are restricted to posts about Roman Catholic clergy.

1079 posts
excluding the one I posted about Buddhism or about atheism as a religion

How many of them about abuse by religious other than roman catholic clergy?
do you not see my point?

Yes. you're unhappy that there aren't more posts of other religious groups involved in scandals.

I don't see that it's the fault of any posters on this thread. All crimes that happen involving religious groups won't be equally visible to people, be it on the web/tv/radio. As most people are in Ireland, anything involving RCC clergy will be reported more, as it's the largest group in Ireland which also has a history of child abuse in this country.

I honestly don't think that posters see stories that could be posted on this thread and think, "it's not the RCC, won't bother posting it."

robindch

ISAW wrote: »

I know it isnt restricted. What i mean is the posts made by posters are restricted to posts about Roman Catholic clergy.

Why not contribute a few yourself about other religions?

dmw07

I want to highlight a scandal involving the catholic church group inc.. On a website not far from here, catholic priests who rape children are being persecuted by right minded individuals who have no business in interfering with the catholic churches personal internal matters. This is made all the worse when there are so many other scandals in other religions that these people are not focusing on. Like.....eh.....that Muslim fella, doing stuff and the likes.

I just wanted to highlight how hard it is for catholics who are clearly targeted on the forum entitled "Ongoing religious scandals".

I hope you will join me for a minute of prayer, and hope that all the catholics out there have the strength to turn the other cheek, ignore blatant issues by forgetting to think and leave the rest up to god. He's done a great job so far.

Please ban me, i can't stop reading this crap.

ISAW

marienbad wrote: »

The solution is in your own hands ISAW, find those stories and post them ! That fact that you are quicker the most when in comes to links and that you have not done so in this case may be an indication that those links simply are'nt there - no ?

The fact that you dont seem to have read where I actually did supply them might indicate you are not actually paying attention to my replies.
Please re read all my replies from the lkast two pages before you comment on this.

You keep complaining about anti-catholic bias, but if there is one that comes out in these threads from time to time I would suggest that you are one of the major causes of that by your refusal to see the scale of the problem within the church and to resort to the most legalistic tactics to close down any argument or discussion.

I'm quite happy to discuss.
I'm also quite prepared to point out bias and personal attack and incitement to hatred.

You accuse others of not having a open mind when your own is firmly shut.

I have shown you the church responded quicker and in advance of the state and of victims agencies and to a greater degree. I have yet to see anyone show they didn't.
I'm open to correction.

ISAW

robindch wrote: »

Why not contribute a few yourself about other religions?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78212894&postcount=1052
why not pay attention to the several post where I have and have reminded people that I have.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78217281&postcount=1075

The fact that nobody else seems to be interested in this only raises more suspicions as to the reasons why they have not.

Delirium

with all due respect, ISAW, it's not unusual for posts to get no replies. It's primarily for sharing links to stories.

ISAW

dmw07 wrote: »

I want to highlight a scandal involving the catholic church group inc..

this seems like a troll.
Under what law or in what state is this group incorporated?

On a website not far from here,

what website? What is the URL?
and where is "here"

catholic priests who rape children are being persecuted by right minded individuals who have no business in interfering with the catholic churches personal internal matters.

Criminal cases are not the business of the catholic church. they operate only canon Law.
In criminal cases they cede to the local civil authority.

This is made all the worse when there are so many other scandals in other religions that these people are not focusing on. Like.....eh.....that Muslim fella, doing stuff and the likes.

True In terms of atrocities Catholicism is in the halfpenny place compared to atheistic regimes. But that is a separate issue.

I just wanted to highlight how hard it is for catholics who are clearly targeted on the forum entitled "Ongoing religious scandals".

Indeed where in thousands of posts almost none are abiut scandals other than roman catholic ones!

Imagine a thread about economic scandals and all the people referred to in it were homosexuals or Jews or black. would you not be suspicious of the motives f the posters who only post about blacks or homosexual or Jews who are involved in scandals?
And after 1000 posts if anyone came along and said "isnt theis possible a bit anti jew /black/homosexual" were told "the only part of me which is in any comparable to a jew/homosexual/black is my arse3 or "you are just a jew/black/queer defender"

I hope you will join me for a minute of prayer,
Please ban me, i can't stop reading this crap.

i hope you will stop treating offensive posts as a joke.

ISAW

koth wrote: »

with all due respect, ISAW, it's not unusual for posts to get no replies. It's primarily for sharing links to stories.

Except when I post and get a plethora of them treating my seriously considered posts as a joke and insulting me and complaining about them?
If i was not askd to come to this forum by a moderator I would not have arrived. i dont deserve the vitriol I have experienced.

Delirium

ISAW wrote: »

Except when I post and get a plethora of them treating my seriously considered posts as a joke and insulting me and complaining about them?
If i was not askd to come to this forum by a moderator I would not have arrived. i dont deserve the vitriol I have experienced.

You just said that it seems that no one is interested in your posts. Now your posts are treated as a joke or being complained about?

Which is it?

qrrgprgua

ISAW wrote: »

But it is limited to ignoring the vast majority of scandals which exist outside religion. Indeed even though it is apparently about ALL religion, it seems to only have discussion on the Roman Catholic clergy. One is hard pressed to find any pôsts on the level of sexual abuse in atheistic religions like Buddhism for example.

Isaw its an extremely important point. Child abuse happens today in Ireland. Many social workers know of probable abuse of kids in abusive families.

But ISAW the objective of this forum.. Pegged as a sticky.. is to hold up a flag to Atheists/Agnostics saying "look see we have another reason not to believe". Its all about making the room more cloudy so people can't see the truth. A deflection from being able to argue with truths and facts instead of perceptions.



Then again... If this forum had existed 50 years ago Many Irish Bishops would have acted differently. So I am no knocking the existence of this discussion. But it should be based on the facts of today.



PS.... Any of your posts beyond 3 lines are a waste of time here as people don't have the attention span to read the properly and will just call you a troll.. Sad but true.

eoin5

ISAW wrote: »

Except when I post and get a plethora of them treating my seriously considered posts as a joke and insulting me and complaining about them?
If i was not askd to come to this forum by a moderator I would not have arrived. i dont deserve the vitriol I have experienced.

When I read your posts I see jokes, I guess its down to the imperfect medium of posting online.

Try not to be too offended.

marienbad

ISAW wrote: »

The fact that you dont seem to have read where I actually did supply them might indicate you are not actually paying attention to my replies.
Please re read all my replies from the lkast two pages before you comment on this.



I'm quite happy to discuss.
I'm also quite prepared to point out bias and personal attack and incitement to hatred.


I have shown you the church responded quicker and in advance of the state and of victims agencies and to a greater degree. I have yet to see anyone show they didn't.
I'm open to correction.

I have read your replies and links ( which for my pains I always do ISAW and it can be hard going),but continue to make such post as you find them and the situation as you find it will thus correct itself.

But we live in a catholic/Christian country (95% as you are quick to point out) so therefore it is natural that most links will be to the catholic/christian ethos . How could it be otherwise ?

You keep saying that the church responded first/better/and to a greater degree that any other agency . And fair play and well done to them in their past efforts and their future efforts.



Would you accept though that this issue was originally uncovered by those not affiliated to the church ?

And for over 50 years it was allowed to develop to whatever level without any real preventative measures being taken ?

And it was as a result of that outside exposure that the issue was confronted and remedial action taken .

Genghiz Cohen

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Isaw its an extremely important point. Child abuse happens today in Ireland. Many social workers know of probable abuse of kids in abusive families.

But ISAW the objective of this forum.. Pegged as a sticky.. is to hold up a flag to Atheists/Agnostics saying "look see we have another reason not to believe". Its all about making the room more cloudy so people can't see the truth. A deflection from being able to argue with truths and facts instead of perceptions.



Then again... If this forum had existed 50 years ago Many Irish Bishops would have acted differently. So I am no knocking the existence of this discussion. But it should be based on the facts of today.



PS.... Any of your posts beyond 3 lines are a waste of time here as people don't have the attention span to read the properly and will just call you a troll.. Sad but true.

YOUVE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD THERE!!!!!!
WELL DONE TAKE IT TO THOSE ANTI-CATHOLICS!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

MAYBE IF MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU STOOD UP TO THESE ANTI-CATHOLICS MAYBE NOONE WOULD HAVE EVE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE ABUSE COVER-UPS AND WE COULD ALL BE HAPPIER!!!!!!!!

robindch

ISAW wrote: »

robindch wrote:

Why not contribute a few yourself about other religions?

why not pay attention to the several post where I have

Dude, you were the one who was complaining about too many reports of sexually-abusive catholic priests -- why not contribute enough reports from the clerics of other religions, so that the balance is restored to whatever you feel is appropriate?

BTW, you're arguing against yourself again.

.

robindch

qrrgprgua wrote: »

But ISAW the objective of this forum.. Pegged as a sticky.. is to hold up a flag to Atheists/Agnostics saying "look see we have another reason not to believe". Its all about making the room more cloudy so people can't see the truth. A deflection from being able to argue with truths and facts instead of perceptions.

On a mod note, this thread exists because there are so many reports of sexually-abusive clerics, that the moderators decided two years ago, to put them into one place, rather than have them continually clogging up the forum.

I note our confrères next door have a thread three times the size of this one which deals with clerical abuse.

qrrgprgua

robindch wrote: »

On a mod note, this thread exists because there are so many reports of sexually-abusive clerics, that the moderators decided two years ago, to put them into one place, rather than have them continually clogging up the forum.

I note our confrères next door have a thread three times the size of this one which deals with clerical abuse.

If there is actual abuse today by Clerics in Ireland. Then yes it absolutely should be reported. The Church can never be allowed to bury this crime..

But the reality is according to the Irish Justice system..(any as per our dear Enda Kenny the church is not above the law) so according to the law there has not been one single conviction of abuse that has taken place in Ireland in the last 10 years.

So if anything the title of the thread might be "past religious scandals" no Bishop can turn a blind eye to abuse either morally or Lawfully.

Delirium

qrrgprgua wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

On a mod note, this thread exists because there are so many reports of sexually-abusive clerics, that the moderators decided two years ago, to put them into one place, rather than have them continually clogging up the forum.

I note our confrères next door have a thread three times the size of this one which deals with clerical abuse.

If there is actual abuse today by Clerics in Ireland. Then yes it absolutely should be reported. The Church can never be allowed to bury this crime..

But the reality is according to the Irish Justice system..(any as per our dear Enda Kenny the church is not above the law) so according to the law there has not been one single conviction of abuse that has taken place in Ireland in the last 10 years.

So if anything the title of the thread might be "past religious scandals" no Bishop can turn a blind eye to abuse either morally or Lawfully.

Ongoing religious scandals is an appropriate title as cases still appear in the news of clergy whose victims are only coming forward now. That's almost a dictionary definition of ongoing religious scandals.

Dades

Hi everybody, late to the party here.

This thread is what it is. People can post what they want as long as its related to Ongoing Religious Scandals. If one organisation is more represented, c'est la vie. We don't set quotas on who gets outed here.

This is the second time this thread has been disrupted by a tedious point being beaten to death. No more.

I've resisted the urge to purge the last four pages, but this thread returns to discussion about individual posted cases, now.

ISAW

As to the topic:

Is anyone concerned about scandals in Buddhist/atheistic religions?

I wonder why not.
Her is a suggestion as to my suspicions why not :

Galvasean wrote: »

You do realise that you have been invited to post examples of abuse from other religions on numerous occasions and you have sidestepped this in favour of continuously complaining about a perceived bias?

1. I posted the moderators several weeks ago pointing outsomle examples. It was suggested I (IIR not by them) that I didn,t post the specific examples as it might be linked by others to separate issues and lead to an attack on me or off topic posts.

Luckily I informed the moderators at the time or i doubt posters here who are attacking me would believe me.

2. I posted examples on numerous occasions and AFTER I did so people like you suggested I post some. I pointed out I already had. I could have posted them a year ago but dint come to A&A because i expected the personal attacks I have witnessed. And when I do post them, rather than deal with them I get personally attacked. -Ironic.

Enough! Every single thread is becoming an ISAW soapbox at this stage. To quote a spinach eating sailor, "I can't stands it no mores!" Life is too short.
It is with regret (and arguably not before it's time) that I ad someone to my ignore list for only the second time in my near six years of boards.ie usage.
Good luck to all concerned.

So your answer to the obvious contradiction of asking me to post something when I already have posted it is to ignore it as if it is some sort of personal problem on my pazrt rather than an actual factual post about non Christians?

ISAW

robindch wrote: »

Dude, you were the one who was complaining about too many reports of sexually-abusive catholic priests -- why not contribute enough reports from the clerics of other religions, so that the balance is restored to whatever you feel is appropriate?

BTW, you're arguing against yourself again.

.

I have already told you why but it appears you dont pay attention to what was already posted in this thread.

Do you think if a thread is on abuse by homosexuals that it is "balanced" by posting about US homosexual abuse rather than only Irish catholic homosexuals? If someone came along as asked why people are interested in abuse by all people and that homosexuals abuse is only one percent of abuse and why is it so special and pointed out in spite of the thread being about homosexuals that only Irish homosexuals are being mentioned would you not think such questions are valid?

It is of vital importance that
1. victims of sexual abuse are treated as fairly and rapidly as possible
2. the possibility of such abuse is reduced or eliminated.

It is very important to point out where religious organisations failed in the past to support 1 and 2 and to acknowledge any success in their endeavors.

It is particularly important to try to measure the level of 1 and 2. To do this we need to compare the levels of abuse, the type of abuse, the motivation leading to abuse , the response by religions to each other and to state voluntary and other agencies and to society in general. If we are really serious about discussing such an issue we should do so with this in mind.

Please don't allow this to be an excuse for militant atheists to create a whipping boy of people from any religion or none. Be prepared to leave assumptions of conspiracy or cover up at the door and deal with actual facts. where clerics or non clerics committed crimes they should answer to the law; But if state agencies or victims groups or society also failed to do things e.g. implement full disclosure policies that also should be made known and discussed.

Dades

ISAW permabanned from A&A.

Move along - nothing to see here.

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

ISAW permabanned from A&A.

Move along - nothing to see here.

I put him on ignore before the forum did.

Dades

A lot more off-topic crap deleted.

qrrgprgua infracted for immediately ignoring the same mod instruction as ISAW.

I think we're done with OT posts here.

qrrgprgua

Dades wrote: »

A lot more off-topic crap deleted.

qrrgprgua infracted for immediately ignoring the same mod instruction as ISAW.

I think we're done with OT posts here.

NAME ONE CASE OF ABUSE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS IN IRELAND? ISAW's and my frustration is not the existence of this thread, its the untruths peddled here.

Newaglish

qrrgprgua wrote: »

NAME ONE CASE OF ABUSE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS IN IRELAND? ISAW's and my frustration is not the existence of this thread, its the untruths peddled here.

What untruths? Nobody is posting fictional news stories around here. Also, what is this obsession with abuse cases in the last 10 years? Some of the older cases are only coming to light now.

I'm pretty sure the RCC have a bit of a thing about morals being absolute and not changing over time. Surely any case of abuse is relevant? The clergy is by and large the same now as it was ten years ago.

mikhail

Newaglish wrote: »

... I'm pretty sure the RCC have a bit of a thing about morals being absolute and not changing over time...

Yeah, about that... Google "Romanus Pontifex".