Ongoing religious scandals

The Mad Hatter

Well, his claim that this thread only talks about catholic scandals has just been pretty well disproved.

Nodin

qrrgprgua wrote: »

.......... FYI.. Israel is a lot more open towards Gays that it ever was.

Israel=/=all Jews
Hasidic Jews in London=/=all Jews etc and so on.

Bannasidhe

Nodin wrote: »

Israel=/=all Jews
Hasidic Jews in London=/=all Jews etc and so on.

Indeed. Just to reinforce the point that there is no Jewish hive mind and all Jews do not support Israel - Here are some American Orthodox Jews from an organisation called NETUREI KARTA protesting against Israeli Zionism.







Oh No - am I providing 'evidence' again??? Dammit - and he still hasn't shown me his :mad:

joseph brand

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Indeed. Just to reinforce the point that there is no Jewish hive mind and all Jews do not support Israel - Here are some American Orthodox Jews from an organisation called NETUREI KARTA protesting against Israeli Zionism.

Oh No - am I providing 'evidence' again??? Dammit - and he still hasn't shown me his :mad:

For him, blind belief = evidence. Checkmate. :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

joseph brand wrote: »

For him, blind belief = evidence. Checkmate. :rolleyes:

I'm


arn't I .

robindch

Just reading these posts now...

qrrgprgua wrote: »

So you are claiming that as you went to place a wreath that Immanuel Jakobovits moved to block you? Am I correct? When did this happen.

I think Bannasidhe has provided more than enough evidence to support her claim, so please drop this line of conversation.

robindch

http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-12/news/31669726_1_sexual-misconduct-priests-clergy

philly.com wrote:

A few months after she started as operations director for the Archdiocese of Philadelphia’s clergy office in 2005, Louise Sullivan was given a task: Straighten up the file room.

The exhaustive grand-jury investigation into alleged sex abuse by priests was over, and the 10th-floor room at the archdiocese’s 17th Street headquarters was a mess. Cardboard boxes, files, and papers cluttered the floor. Atop one corner cabinet, Sullivan noticed a small, locked combination safe. She asked around: Whose safe was it? And what was inside? No one knew, Sullivan told a Common Pleas Court jury on Thursday. Her testimony marked the first, albeit small, step in explaining perhaps the most disputed and relevant piece of evidence in the conspiracy and child endangerment trial of Msgr. William J. Lynn, who once ran the office.

Inside the safe was a list Lynn had compiled in 1994 naming 35 active archdiocesan priests who had been diagnosed as pedophiles, had admitted sexual misconduct with minors, or were suspected or accused of such conduct. [...] One of the priests Lynn identified in 1994 as guilty of sexual misconduct was the Rev. Edward Avery. Five years later, Avery sexually assaulted a Northeast Philadelphia altar boy after Mass, an attack that prosecutors contend Lynn had the power and responsibility to prevent. [...]

While IrishCentral reports that church documents indicate that one priest joked about "how hard it was to have sex with three boys in one week":

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Philadelphia-Catholic-priest-joked-I-had-sex-with-three-boys-in-a-week-146072765.html

On a side note, IC reports that Lynn was responsible for 800 priests over his time as secretary, of whom 35 were known to be pedophiles, or had credible allegations made against them. It's unclear how closely the 35 and the 800 coincide, if at all, but the ratio is 4.5%.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-12/news/31669726_1_sexual-misconduct-priests-clergy

While IrishCentral reports that church documents indicate that one priest joked about "how hard it was to have sex with three boys in one week":

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Philadelphia-Catholic-priest-joked-I-had-sex-with-three-boys-in-a-week-146072765.html

On a side note, IC reports that Lynn was responsible for 800 priests over his time as secretary, of whom 35 were known to be pedophiles, or had credible allegations made against them. It's unclear how closely the 35 and the 800 coincide, if at all, but the ratio is 4.5%.

Yeah, but how many of them were in the last 10 years? Huh. See. This is pure anti-catholic bias.

MrP

Penn

robindch wrote: »

...but the ratio is 4.5%.

*ducks for cover*

Wait... What's that?... Banned?... Permabanned?.... From the whole site?....

I BET THE RATIO IS CLOSER TO 6.5%!

the_syco

I BET THE RATIO IS CLOSER TO 65%!

Sixty five percent? Wow!

Dades

Penn wrote: »

Wait... What's that?... Banned?... Permabanned?.... From the whole site?....

Stop tempting a re-reg, darnit!

robindch

Dades wrote: »

Stop tempting a re-reg, darnit!

Waits for IWAS to show up...

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Waits for IWAS to show up...

Cunningly disguised as WASI.

Sonics2k

robindch wrote: »

Waits for IWAS to show up...

If we all say his name 3 times in a mirror, he may magically show up!

Bannasidhe

Sonics2k wrote: »

If we all say his name 3 times in a mirror, he may magically show up!

Bad Sonics - don't you DARE! :mad:

Genghiz Cohen

Sonics2k wrote: »

If we all say his name 3 times in a mirror, he may magically show up!

We don't take kindly to yer mystical muba-jumba 'round these parts, boy.
Best if you just go awn home and take it wit ye.

ShooterSF

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

We don't take kindly to yer mystical muba-jumba 'round these parts, boy.
Best if you just go awn home and take it wit ye.

Now calm down Skeeter, he ain't hurting no one!

Bannasidhe

ShooterSF wrote: »

Now calm down Skeeter, he ain't hurting no one!

Well he sure ain't gittin mai TV!

Genghiz Cohen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Well he sure ain't gittin mai TV!

We don't take kindly to yer technikal muba-jumba 'round these parts, lil' lady.
Best if you just go awn home and take it wit ye.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

More reports of abuse, but -- WTF?!! -- assets of £22 billion?

Oops.

The Legionaries telegenic front priest in the USA has just announced he's taking a year out to "reflect on his transgressions and his commitments as a priest" following news that he's a daddy. Fun URL too!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/us/popular-priest-fathered-child-and-says-hell-step-aside.html

NY Times wrote:

A telegenic American priest, widely known for his media commentary from Rome on popes, prayer and personal morality, has publicly acknowledged having an affair and fathering a child — the latest jolt to hit his scandal-torn religious order, the Legionaries of Christ.

The priest, the Rev. Thomas D. Williams, apologized in a statement on Tuesday “for this grave transgression” and “to everyone who is hurt by this revelation.” He said he would take a year off from public ministry to reflect on his transgressions and his “commitments as a priest” — a decision he said he made with his superiors. Father Williams was the most visible American member of the Legionaries, a powerful and conservative Roman Catholic religious order that has been in turmoil since 2006, when its charismatic founder was banished by the Vatican to a life of prayer and penance.

The order’s founder, a Mexican priest named Marciel Maciel Degollado, died in 2008 amid revelations that he had sexually abused young seminarians, misappropriated money and fathered several children, some of whom say they were also victims of his sexual abuse. Only last Friday, the Legion acknowledged that seven of its priests are being investigated by the Vatican in connection with the sexual abuse of minors. Pope Benedict XVI appointed a delegate in 2010 to oversee the order. Although priests have been abandoning the Legion, it still claims 800 priests and thousands of laypeople in Regnum Christi, an affiliated group.

The Rev. Luis Garza, the order’s leader in North America, said in a statement to the members: “I know that this will be shocking news to you. In the wake of all that we have been through as a Movement in the past several years, it won’t surprise me if you are disappointed, angry or feel your trust shaken once again.” Jim Fair, a spokesman for the Legion, said the order had not paid any financial support to the child or the mother. He added that Father Williams was staying with his parents in Michigan and was recovering from cancer surgery.

Father Williams said in the statement issued by the Legion that his relationship occurred “a number of years ago.” The Associated Press and The National Catholic Reporter broke the news on Tuesday after learning of allegations made by a Spanish association of Legion victims about multiple sexual improprieties by Father Williams. Father Williams, who joined the Legion in 1985, was ordained a priest in 1994, and rose to become superior of the Legion’s general directorate in Rome. He is the author of many books on spirituality, including “Knowing Right From Wrong: A Christian Guide to Conscience,” and “The World as It Could Be: Catholic Social Thought for a New Generation.”

In recent years, he taught ethics and Catholic social doctrine at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical Athenaeum, a Legion university in Rome, and served as a Vatican analyst for NBC, CBS and Sky News in Britain. During the funeral for Pope John Paul II and the conclave that elected Pope Benedict XVI, he was often seen on American television. “He was the face of the church at the time of the conclave,” said Susan Gibbs, the spokeswoman at the time for the Archdiocese of Washington and now a media consultant for Catholic organizations. “He really helped people understand how the church worked.”

Sarky

Heh, he's still helping people understand how the church works.

qrrgprgua

robindch wrote: »

Oops.

The Legionaries telegenic front priest in the USA has just announced he's taking a year out to "reflect on his transgressions and his commitments as a priest" following news that he's a daddy. Fun URL too!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/us/popular-priest-fathered-child-and-says-hell-step-aside.html

The Legion of Christ is a sect founded by a Mexican who had children with 3 women and a fondness for young men..

Its corrupt from the top down.. A sect within the Catholic Church.

I say this as someone who is a Catholic and who was roped into the organisation and who knows this Priest.

Sarky

I presume you can, ahem, substantiate your outlandish claim? FYI... Most Mexicans are quite nice people.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

Ultra-orthodox jews in New York ostracize jews who report child abuse

Interesting follow-up on this one.

In New York last night, around 100 people turned up to support the woman at the center of the allegations. They were outnumbered by several thousand who turned up to support the alleged abuser. At least one of the latter's supporters was hauled away by police for rushing the barricade erected to keep the two groups apart:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/nyregion/supporters-clash-at-event-for-ultra-orthodox-man-accused-of-sexual-assault.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper

New York Times wrote:

As thousands of supporters of a Brooklyn man accused of being a child molester attended a fund-raiser for his legal defense Wednesday night, a group of about 100 people supporting the young woman who alleged that he sexually assaulted her rallied outside.

It was a scene of anger and division over the issue of child sexual abuse that residents of the insular neighborhood of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, said they had never before seen. In front of the Continental catering hall on Rutledge Street, where the fund-raiser was being held, a tightly packed crowd of Hasidic men who supported the accused man, Nechemya Weberman, stood and stared down the young woman’s supporters, who stood behind police barricades. “Protect victims, not abusers,” their signs said.

“I’m here to support the young girl, the victim, who has been vilified and dragged through the mud,” said Robert H. Hoatson, a former Catholic priest who stood with ultra-Orthodox supporters of the girl, other victims of child sexual abuse and their advocates. At about 8 p.m., a Hasidic man from the fund-raiser rushed the protesters’ barricades. The police grabbed him, put him in handcuffs and led him away.

Two women who supported Mr. Weberman said that he was a good man, and that they did not believe he was capable of sexual abuse. They called the girl a liar and got into a dispute with Pearl Engelman, a victims’ advocate who was at the protest. “How do you know he is innocent?” Mrs. Engelman asked. “Because you know him? That is proof?”

Members of the ultra-Orthodox community who report abuse cases to the police — rather than allowing rabbinical authorities to handle the matters — regularly face harassment, and it is not unusual for ultra-Orthodox synagogues in the New York area to take up collections for the defense of those accused. The fund-raiser was held to support Mr. Weberman, 53, an unlicensed therapist who has been indicted on charges that he sexually assaulted a girl, starting when she was 12, during sessions intended to promote her religious practice. His trial is set to begin as early as June.

Meanwhile, a DA at the center of the abuse claims seems to have a soft spot for the rabbis who, by a strange coincidence, have provided him with large amounts of political support for his election as DA. The DA was also apparently in favour of allowing rabbis to say whether allegations of child sex abuse within their flocks should be reported:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/nyregion/for-ultra-orthodox-in-child-sex-abuse-cases-prosecutor-has-different-rules.html

On hearing of this, New York mayor, Michael Bloomberg became significantly upset:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/12/nyregion/bloomberg-among-critics-of-brooklyn-district-attorney.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

The DA says he's the good guy in all of this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/work-protect-brooklyn-kids-article-1.1078825
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/nyregion/brooklyn-prosecutor-charles-hynes-defends-record-on-sex-abuse-cases.html?src=recg

recedite

It seems obvious that the Jewish Orthodox bully boys who are harassing and intimidating witnesses to abuse cases need to be arrested and tried too.

The American DA in that case reminds me of Harry Whelehan the Irish AG who refused to either prosecute Brendan Smyth or extradite him to the RUC (who wanted to prosecute him). In the end, the inaction of the AG brought down a government.

Also worth noting is the US system of electing the DA, a system which is open to political lobbying and campaign donations. Here in Ireland we have our judges being appointed from the pool of barristers by politicians, which is even worse; its plain old political cronyism.
In Germany however, they have a system whereby all law graduates sit a state exam, and the best of them are eligible to go on to specialised training and to then become judges. There is no outside lobbying or interference in their appointment at all.

Bannasidhe

Letter in today's Irish Times

Sir, – We welcome moves to include Westbank Orphanage, Greystones, in inquiries into institutional abuse in Northern Ireland (Pamela Duncan, Home News, May 14th). Children from Westbank were moved illegally over the Border and placed with unregistered foster carers. Children in the home and in fostering arrangements suffered physical, emotional and/or sexual abuse.

The orphanage was unique in that children were hardly, if ever, adopted. Some “children” remained in the home into their early 30s. The orphanage appears to have operated without proper supervision from the 1950s until it closed in 1998. In 2011 residential records were removed from the PACT counselling service by the Trustees of Westbank in Bray Gospel Hall.

Children whose mothers were from Northern Ireland gave birth in Dublin’s Bethany Home, Rathgar, before being transferred to Westbank Home. Bethany Home should, therefore, also be included in the Northern Ireland process.

219 Bethany children are buried in unmarked graves in Mount Jerome Cemetery in Dublin, while many who survived suffered lifelong illnesses and/or were sent into dysfunctional and abusive situations (including Westbank). Derek Leinster is one of those children. The State sanctioned neglect and death in Bethany when the deputy chief medical adviser, who was investigating reported abuse, stated in his report, “It is well known that illegitimate children are delicate and marasmic”. (“Marasmic” is another word for starving).

Mothers of three of the undersigned had children born in the Bethany Home.

Sydney in 1964 and Colm in 1967 were sent to Westbank. They were sent back and forth over the Border, sometimes on fundraising trips to perform for church groups. Sydney’s mother was from Northern Ireland. Three of her children were sent to Westbank, one of whom was born in Bethany.

Colm’s mother gave birth to two children in Bethany who were sent to Westbank. As it was policy in Westbank, children were not told their siblings were also there.

A number of religious denominations large and small, from the Church of Ireland to Presbyterians, Methodists, Free Presbyterians, Baptists, Plymouth Brethren, gospel halls, and the Orange Order, were involved in directing unmarried mothers to, and/or raising funds for, Bethany and Westbank.

This diffuse association makes it possible for churches to deny specific responsibility for what went on in institutions run by evangelical Christians. Leaders of the Church of Ireland, Presbyterian and Methodist congregations twice met privately to discuss Bethany, but did not issue a statement.

The Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter, has given written commitments to TDs and MLAs from the Democratic Unionist Party, the Ulster Unionist Party, the Labour Party and from Sinn Féin, to do something, some time, about demands of former Bethany children for official recognition and for justice.

Bethany and Westbank operated in the Republic of Ireland. Perhaps an inquiry into their activities will begin in Belfast while Justice delays in Dublin. – Yours, etc,

DEREK LEINSTER,
Chairperson,
Bethany Survivors,
Southey Road,
Rugby, Warwickshire, England;
SYDNEY HERDMAN,
Vice Chair, Bethany Survivors,
Legacorry Road, Richill,
Co Armagh;
COLM BEGLEY,
Bethany Westbank Survivor,
Carrigadrohid, Co Cork
HELEN MCCARTHY FITZPATRICK,
Westbank Survivor,
McCarthy Drive,
Hulmeville,
Pennsylvania,US.

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/

Also found this letter to The Examiner from last Feb:

Justice for Bethany House victims

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

For how much longer will the Minister for Justice and Defence Alan Shatter continue to obfuscate and filibuster on the issue of those who were incarcerated in the Protestant-run Bethany home?
Despite being the principal facility for single Protestant pregnant women deemed in need of institutional care, Bethany was not considered a State residential institution and therefore the children born there have been excluded from the Residential Institutional Redress Act 2002. The remaining survivors of these institutions do not have time on their side and in many cases do not enjoy good health.

Minister Shatter has recently indicated his intention to address speedily the contentious issue of pardons for Irish soldiers who deserted their posts during the Second World War and enlisted with British forces. Might I remind the minister that unlike those deserters who had a choice on desertion, the children born in the Bethany home did not. Fate decreed their status. They have been innocent victims all their lives.

Mr Shatter also condemned the Irish State for keeping the doors of this state firmly closed to Jewish refugees in the 1930s and 1940s, saying this State utterly lost its moral compass in regard to the Jewish refugee issue.

What about the Irish State’s moral compass to the children of Bethany House? Does Mr Shatter wish to be remembered as the minister for justice who administered justice to those few remaining victims of Bethany House, or one whose actions fell short of his rhetoric?

Tom Cooper
Knocklyon
Dublin 16

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/justice-for-bethany-house-victims-183824.html#ixzz1v8XWOvW7


It is beginning to seem that the abuse of vulnerable children was endemic on the island of Ireland :mad:

dmw07

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It is beginning to seem that the abuse of vulnerable children was endemic on the island of Ireland :mad:

Yes it does seem to be that way. It great in a way, that these stories have come to light. Without the internet so much of this information would be suppressed.

It also seems like it was any religious order, not just the catholic cult who preyed on young vulnerable women and children in Ireland. Must have been the craze at the time.

the_syco

robindch wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/nyregion/for-ultra-orthodox-in-child-sex-abuse-cases-prosecutor-has-different-rules.html

That DA should be charged with obstruction of justice.

robindch wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/12/nyregion/bloomberg-among-critics-of-brooklyn-district-attorney.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Bloomberg knows how to speak his mind when he has to

robindch wrote: »

following news that he's a daddy. Fun URL too!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/us/popular-priest-fathered-child-and-says-hell-step-aside.html

I wonder what age the childs mother was at the time of the babies contraception?

dmw07 wrote: »

It also seems like it was any religious order, not just the catholic cult who preyed on young vulnerable women and children in Ireland. Must have been the craze at the time.

Some would say that it takes away the good work that the church did at the time. Me, I say it shows how corrupt the church is when it has power, and why it should be stripped of any power it has.

dmw07

the_syco wrote: »

Some would say that it takes away the good work that the church did at the time. Me, I say it shows how corrupt the church is when it has power, and why it should be stripped of any power it has.

The good work is overshadowed, but not unappreciated.

Hotblack Desiato

the_syco wrote: »

I wonder what age the childs mother was at the time of the babies contraception?

:pac:

Some would say that it takes away the good work that the church did at the time. Me, I say it shows how corrupt the church is when it has power, and why it should be stripped of any power it has.

Power without accountability inevitably leads to great abuse of power. The churches are all too human in this regard (in every regard, really... all of the bad aspects of human nature are either displayed by organised religion or taken advantage of by them.)