Ongoing religious scandals

Kivaro

recedite wrote: »

Also worth noting is the US system of electing the DA, a system which is open to political lobbying and campaign donations. Here in Ireland we have our judges being appointed from the pool of barristers by politicians, which is even worse; its plain old political cronyism.

I much prefer the elected system that we have over in "these here parts" (States). There are election posters all over the place in my locality at the moment for Judges who want to be re-elected for the various courts.
It's quite simple for us to select the right judge that matches our criminal justice philosophy.
This method results in ACCOUNTABILITY and citizen participation in the process.
I like it.

MrPudding

Kivaro wrote: »

I much prefer the elected system that we have over in "these here parts" (States). There are election posters all over the place in my locality at the moment for Judges who want to be re-elected for the various courts.
It's quite simple for us to select the right judge that matches our criminal justice philosophy.
This method results in ACCOUNTABILITY and citizen participation in the process.
I like it.

Really? I think it is an awful system that breeds and encourages miscarriages of justice.

Whilst it might appear that unelected judges, who are very difficult to remove, are undemocratic, it does allow them, in theory, to make decisions based on law and it what they think the electorate want.

MrP

robindch

Kivaro wrote: »

It's quite simple for us to select the right judge that matches our criminal justice philosophy. This method results in ACCOUNTABILITY and citizen participation in the process. I like it.

What about a judge that will contribute to reducing crime, rather than implementing some kind of retributive justice system that reflects what's likely to be a hopelessly uninformed public debate?

In any case, here's a case just this week from NY (see above) in which a DA was apparently perverting the course of justice in order to continue getting himself elected:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/nyregion/for-ultra-orthodox-in-child-sex-abuse-cases-prosecutor-has-different-rules.html?_r=1

Is that "accountability"?

Kivaro

MrPudding wrote: »

Really? I think it is an awful system that breeds and encourages miscarriages of justice.

Whilst it might appear that unelected judges, who are very difficult to remove, are undemocratic, it does allow them, in theory, to make decisions based on law and it what they think the electorate want.

MrP

I disagree. While there are some bad apples, like the NY DA, the elected system is effective, and I like having the opportunity to be a participant in the process of selecting judges based on their record.

You need to see it in practice before making a sweeping generalization on how it encourages miscarriages of justice.

Don't forget that the law is the law, and judges only get to make discretionary decisions on areas like sentencing, which can be reversed by appellant courts.

I prefer it to the the detached system in Ireland.

MrPudding

They are still trying to get out of paying compensation...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/may/17/sexual-abuse-compensation-legal-church

MrP

joseph brand

Ex-priest guilty of conspiring to kill boy who accused him of rape.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/john-fiala-ex-priest-guilty-of-plotting-to-kill-abuse-accuser_n_1527843.html

DALLAS -- A jury has found a former Roman Catholic priest guilty of plotting the death of a man who accused him of sexual abuse.

Fiala could be sentenced to up to life in prison for solicitation of capital murder.

Prosecutors say Fiala tried to hire a neighbor's brother to kill the man who accused him of abuse in 2008 when Fiala was the priest at a rural West Texas parish and his accuser was 16.

Bannasidhe

A British man has been arrested in Thailand after being found with six foetuses that had been roasted and covered in gold leaf as part of a black magic spirit ritual.

The corpses of the unborn baby boys were found packed in a suitcase in his hotel room in Bangkok's Chinatown district.

"The bodies are of children between the ages of two and seven months. Some were found covered in gold leaf," Wiwat Kumchumnan, sub-division chief of the police's Children and Women Protection unit.

Chow Hok Kuen (28), who holds a British passport but is of Taiwanese origin, confessed to police that he had bought the foetuses several days earlier for almost £4,000 (€4,970). The source of the foetuses is unclear.

He said he intended to smuggle them to Taiwan where they would be sold for as much as six times what he paid on the internet to people who believe that their possession would bring wealth and good luck.

The man told police that he was hired by another Taiwanese man, named Kun Yichen, who regularly travelled to Thailand to collect the ritualistic foetuses. Worship of the foetuses -- observed by some in the Chinese community -- is a Buddhist-animist practice known as Kuman Thong that is described in ancient Thai manuscripts.

In Thai black magic rituals, also observed among some Chinese communities, preserved foetuses are believed to bring good fortune.

It required male foetuses surgically removed from the womb that were then dried as black magic incantations were said over the body, before it was covered in gold leaf.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/briton-had-case-full-of-foetuses-to-be-used-in-black-magic-ritual-3112200.html

*speechless*

kylith

joseph brand wrote: »

Ex-priest guilty of conspiring to kill boy who accused him of rape.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/john-fiala-ex-priest-guilty-of-plotting-to-kill-abuse-accuser_n_1527843.html

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish :eek: What an utter, utter....words cannot describe...

F12

kylith wrote: »

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish :eek: What an utter, utter....words cannot describe...

I'm sure that they got it all wrong about that' lovely man'. He was probably going to talk to the boy to ask for 'forgiveness' and 'reconciliation'. People have become so cynical....:rolleyes:

Galvasean

Bannasidhe wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/briton-had-case-full-of-foetuses-to-be-used-in-black-magic-ritual-3112200.html

*speechless*

Wait, I thought it was we atheists who ate the babies?

Nodin

Galvasean wrote: »

Wait, I thought it was we atheists who ate the babies?

Well the last Holy Father did describe Buddhism as "atheistic".....

FouxDaFaFa

I don't suppose the babies died of natural causes? God, I hope so. If they were killed for that purpose it's just brought to an even more horrible level.

Delirium

Missing girl was abducted for Vatican sex parties - priest

A teenage girl was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties by a gang involving Vatican police and foreign diplomats 30 years ago, says the Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest, who damned Harry Potter as the “work of the Devil”.

­Father Gabriele Amorth was appointed by the late John Paul II as the Vatican's chief exorcist and claims to have carried out 70,000 exorcisms. He said after one of the parties 15-year-old Emanuela Orlandi was murdered and her body disposed of.

The outspoken priest says the schoolgirl was snatched from the streets of central Rome in the summer of 1983 and forced to take part in sex parties.

"This was a crime with a sexual motive. Parties were organized, with a Vatican gendarme acting as the 'recruiter' of the girls,” Father Amorth, 85, told La Stampa newspaper.

"The network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy to the Holy See. I believe Emanuela ended up a victim of this circle."

He also added that Vatican archivist monsignor Simeone Duca, “who was asked to recruit girls for parties with the help of the Vatican gendarmes”, also confirmed the girl was kidnapped for revelry.

MrPudding

koth wrote: »

Missing girl was abducted for Vatican sex parties - priest

Yeah, but nothing in the last 10 years.

MrP

Sarky

That seems a little far-fetched and horrendous, even for the vatican. Maybe I'm just not as jaded as I thought.

F12

That's probably progress and improvement on previous evil practices, where they used to burn people, including children, at the stake.
As the following article states that were an equality-based system even then "Torture was also applied without distinction of sex or age, including children and the aged." LINK

F12

MrPudding wrote: »

Yeah, but nothing in the last 10 years.

MrP

Nothing has happened in the past 10 years? Really? Is finding out about it not 'something'? What sort of weird justification is there in applying some notional time limit of 'ten years' on evil actions?

Sonics2k

F12 wrote: »

Nothing has happened in the past 10 years? Really? Is finding out about it not 'something'? What sort of weird justification is there in applying some notional time limit of 'ten years' on evil actions?

I think you misunderstand our dear Pudding.

Over the last few months (years) various 'protectors' of the RCC have been trotting out the excuse that because there have no cases of child abuse (that we know of) that actually happened in the last 10 years, then it's all okay.

Bannasidhe

Sonics2k wrote: »

Over the last few months (years) various 'protectors' of the RCC have been trotting out the excuse that because there have no cases of child abuse (that we know of) that actually happened in the last 10 years, then it's all okay.

6.5% of all posts.

:pac:

F12

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think you misunderstand our dear Pudding.

Over the last few months (years) various 'protectors' of the RCC have been trotting out the excuse that because there have no cases of child abuse (that we know of) that actually happened in the last 10 years, then it's all okay.

Not really Sonics2k...I sometimes wish there was an 'irony' or 'sarcasm' font on Boards.ie, to show those subtleties in posts ....;)

Anyone who tries to support the alleged disappearance of evil by way of numbers unknown is simply trying to further add insult to injury and reinforce their blind beliefs that things are not as perverted as he or she might want the wider world to see.

If the RCC were in charge of compiling the sex abuse statistics we have to date, they would no doubt try to convince the world that these things didn't happen at all. That's what 'faith' is all about, trusting the unknown, as the truth hurts the ego of the Beast, man's lower nature.

They do it simply because their blindness of mind gives them licence to do so, just like this case LINK

recedite

koth wrote: »

Missing girl was abducted for Vatican sex parties - priest

As nobody else is rushing in to defend RCC, I'm going to be the Devil's Advocate here.
The Pope and the Holy See is entirely innocent in this. What we have here is some foreign diplomats conspiring with a "secular" policeman of Vatican City, maybe a banker or two, and some gangsters from around Rome, to abduct young girls off the street for "revelry", or Bonga Bonga parties as the Prime Minister would call them. With all the drugs and alcohol being taken, the odd fatality is to be expected.

F12

recedite wrote: »

As nobody else is rushing in to defend RCC, I'm going to be the Devil's Advocate here.
The Pope and the Holy See is entirely innocent in this. What we have here is some foreign diplomats conspiring with a "secular" policeman of Vatican City, maybe a banker or two, and some gangsters from around Rome, to abduct young girls off the street for "revelry", or Bonga Bonga parties as the Prime Minister would call them. With all the drugs and alcohol being taken, the odd fatality is to be expected.

Err...so, "the odd fatality is to be expected"? Do we have statistics for how any sex parties and young dead women were involved? Are you saying that there were many?

How do you know that the Holy See is entirely innocent in this? Does the See not see what is happening inside it's own house? They have bankers (userers - heretics), gangsters (corrupt and violent men) and religion (peddlers of belief), the Unholy Trinity all in the one place....so what sort of ear does Benny and his boys actually lend to the word of God, who presumably updates him on a regular basis?

Is the Vatican Gendarmerie not up to scratch? The corps has over 100 personnel and is a part of the Security and Civil Defense Services Department, being an active organ of the papacy and the See. These security members appear to have control issues in their various organs, as they seem not to be functioning properly.

Corkfeen

F12 wrote: »

Err...so, "the odd fatality is to be expected"? Do we have statistics for how any sex parties and young dead women were involved? Are you saying that there were many?

How do you know that the Holy See is entirely innocent in this? Does the See not see what is happening inside it's own house? They have bankers (userers - heretics), gangsters (corrupt and violent men) and religion (peddlers of belief), the Unholy Trinity all in the one place....so what sort of ear does Benny and his boys actually lend to the word of God, who presumably updates him on a regular basis?

Is the Vatican Gendarmerie not up to scratch? The corps has over 100 personnel and is a part of the Security and Civil Defense Services Department, being an active organ of the papacy and the See. These security members appear to have control issues in their various organs, as they seem not to be functioning properly.

Recedite is also being sarcastic... :pac:

F12

Vatican Bank chief dismissed


The president of the Vatican bank has been dismissed by the board of directors, the Vatican announced today, blaming him for a deterioration in standards of governance.
The board unanimously passed a no-confidence vote in Italian Ettore Gotti Tedeschi for failing to carry out "various fundamentally important functions of his office", the Vatican statement said.


In March, the US state department for the first time put the Vatican on its list of countries considered vulnerable to money laundering.That decision dealt a blow to the Vatican's bid to be included in the European Commission's "white list" of state which comply with international standards against tax fraud and money-laundering.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0524/breaking53.html

There seems to be an ever-growing list of black lists....sex, death, money. It looks like it's a time of 'revelation' alright, but not quite what might have been expected. Then again, if it was expected, it wouldn't be a 'revelation', I suppose.

F12

Corkfeen wrote: »

Recedite is also being sarcastic... :pac:

What? Dang, missed it again...must contact the Mods to sort out the sarcasm font plugin ...:rolleyes:

MrPudding

F12 wrote: »

Nothing has happened in the past 10 years? Really? Is finding out about it not 'something'? What sort of weird justification is there in applying some notional time limit of 'ten years' on evil actions?

Please forgive me. I too yearn for a sarcasm emoticon, in the interim I assume that the readers know my opinion on the despicable organisation that is the catholic church.

MrP

Hotblack Desiato

F12 wrote: »

....sex, death, money.

The real Holy Trinity.

Hotblack Desiato

MrPudding wrote: »

in the interim I assume that the readers know my opinion on the despicable organisation that is the catholic church.

So, were you being sarcastic there, or not?













:cool:

F12

ninja900 wrote: »

The real Holy Trinity.

That's it...for ever and ever, as one and infernal

recedite

F12 wrote: »

These security members appear to have control issues in their various organs, as they seem not to be functioning properly.

Nothing a bit of Viagra wouldn't sort out

Corkfeen wrote: »

Recedite is also being sarcastic... :pac:

Ah no......just skating on thin ice.
Genuinely, these guilty characters seem to be on the outer periphery of Vatican society. Its not like the paedo scandals.