Ongoing religious scandals

Bannasidhe

swampgas wrote: »

He didn't stop at that - he started his own church while he was at it.

Stop! You're giving me naughty ideas...

who the fug

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Stop! You're giving me naughty ideas...

Have some gold shell suits going cheap, if you is stuck for uniforms

swampgas

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Stop! You're giving me naughty ideas...

Well, Big Ian ended up as "Baron Bannside", which might give you even naughtier ideas ....

Bannasidhe

who the fug wrote: »

Have some gold shell suits going cheap, if you is stuck for uniforms

Thanks...but gold shell suits...bit... Jimmy Savile :eek:

Bannasidhe

swampgas wrote: »

Well, Big Ian ended up as "Baron Bannside", which might give you even naughtier ideas ....

Hmmmm - are there robes to go with that title?

I do like robes...bit of ermine trim? Lovely.
Silly velvet hat? - oh ecstasy!

Delirium

Police slam Catholic Church (Australia)

VICTORIA Police has launched a scathing attack on the Catholic Church, accusing it of deliberately impeding its investigations into child abuse.

In a submission to the parliamentary inquiry into the handling of child abuse by churches, signed by Chief Commissioner Ken Lay, police recommend that some of the church's actions to hinder investigations be criminalised.

The submission lists a number of ways in which the church has hindered the criminal justice process, including dissuading victims of sexual crimes from reporting them to police, failing to engage with police and alerting suspects of allegations against them, ''which may have resulted in loss of evidence''.

Another submission, by lawyer Vivian Waller, who has represented more than 70 abuse victims, says that now-Cardinal George Pell refused to listen to a boy who was raped in Ballarat in 1969 soon after the event. But Father Pell was in the room when the victim told another priest what happened. Both times the victim tried to tell his story he was badly beaten, though not by the now Archbishop of Sydney, the submission says.

muppeteer

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/

Same pattern, different country.

ZURICH — Thousands of children fell victim to violence and abuse in Catholic boarding schools in Switzerland up until the 1970s, according to a recent study decrying "sadistic" practices resembling "torture".

"There was always this incredible fear, fear, fear, fear," recalled a former student of a Catholic boarding school in the German-speaking central Swiss canton of Lucerne.

Some cases of violence and sexual abuse were already known, he told AFP, but "we were not expecting it to be this large-scale."

When a child was too noisy or wet the bed, the nuns running the schools used cruel punishments like "pushing small children's heads under water," Furrer said, comparing the practice to "waterboarding", a controversial interrogation technique broadly considered to equate to torture.

The report of around 100 pages, seen by AFP, details the abuses, hardships and humiliations suffered by the Swiss boarding school students, many of whom had been taken from their poor families and placed there by authorities.

Kivaro

I believe that the ill-treatment by clergy/nuns/brothers of these vulnerable children can easily be classified as torture.

It seems that the torture, abuse, and rape of children is not specific to the usual suspect countries, but it was systematic throughout the world ............ wherever the church had a congregation.

Gbear

Kivaro wrote: »

I believe that the ill-treatment by clergy/nuns/brothers of these vulnerable children can easily be classified as torture.

It seems that the torture, abuse, and rape of children is not specific to the usual suspect countries, but it was systematic throughout the world ............ wherever the church had a congregation.

It's not really all that surprising.
They were all human and were all within the same system of warped morals and sexual obsession that was completely divorced from reality.

joseph brand

Gbear wrote: »

It's not really all that surprising.
They were all human and were all within the same system of warped morals and sexual obsession that was completely divorced from reality.

"It’s the strangest thing about this church - it is obsessed with sex, absolutely obsessed. Now they will say we, with our permissive society and rude jokes, are obsessed. No, we have a healthy attitude. We like it, it’s fun, it’s jolly; because it’s a primary impulse it can be dangerous and dark and difficult. It’s a bit like food in that respect, only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic church in a nutshell." Stephen Fry.

The muslims have their niqabs and burkas, the haredi jews have their blurred glasses.

My dad was only telling me last week that his mother used to feel disgusted if a woman mentioned that she was pregnant, or if anyone else was. The 'p' word was holy wholly inappropriate.

Old Ireland was a scary place, due in most part to the ugliness of the rcc. Praying on the weak and vulnerable, whilst claiming authority on morality? May it wither and rot.

Bannasidhe

joseph brand wrote: »

"It’s the strangest thing about this church - it is obsessed with sex, absolutely obsessed. Now they will say we, with our permissive society and rude jokes, are obsessed. No, we have a healthy attitude. We like it, it’s fun, it’s jolly; because it’s a primary impulse it can be dangerous and dark and difficult. It’s a bit like food in that respect, only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic church in a nutshell." Stephen Fry.

The muslims have their niqabs and burkas, the haredi jews have their blurred glasses.

My dad was only telling me last week that his mother used to feel disgusted if a woman mentioned that she was pregnant, or if anyone else was. The 'p' word was holy wholly inappropriate.

Old Ireland was a scary place, due in most part to the ugliness of the rcc. Praying on the weak and vulnerable, whilst claiming authority on morality? May it wither and rot.

My mother still refers to female genitalia as *whisper* 'down there' . I then insist on talking about Australia.

She also can't say knickers without whispering it - but this is an improvement as she only recently learned how to say knickers. Before that it was *whisper only bats can hear* panties.

Penis is 'his ol' man' - said with an expression of extreme distaste.

A whole range of medical issues are 'women'sproblems'

One of my favourite games is to see if she has to whisper every word that may be down there related. So far the answer is a resounding yes.

robindch

joseph brand wrote: »

Praying on the weak and vulnerable[...]

Sir, a Pullet Surprise for that!

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My mother still refers to female genitalia as *whisper* 'down there' . I then insist on talking about Australia.

Popette can't bring herself to mention anything related to down there, front or back, at all and confines herself to delivering the most splendid circumlocutions when expounding her homophobia. The only response possible is "Bottoms!", which we do whenever the topic comes, er, up.

Gbear

robindch wrote: »

circumlocutions

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Popette can't bring herself to mention anything related to down there, front or back, at all and confines herself to delivering the most splendid circumlocutions when expounding her homophobia. The only response possible is "Bottoms!", which we do whenever the topic comes, er, up.

My Father quite literally runs away when ever anything related to 'female parts' is mentioned - the mind boggles as to how he managed to sire 4 children

My sister once told me my grandmother had told her she (grandmother) had never seen her husband naked - they were married 28 years before his death aged 55 and had five children. I couldn't let this piece of information go unexplored to I proceeded to question grandmother as to it's validity. Her answer was invariably 'your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'

Me: 'Nan, is it true you never saw my granddad naked?'
Nan: 'Your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'
Me: ' yeah,goes without saying. Now, is it true?'
Nan: 'Your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'
Me : '28 years and not even a glimpse? Really?'
Nan: 'Your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'
Me: 'Were ye ever naked in the same room at the same time?'
Nan: 'Your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'
Me: 'I'm asking like because ye had 5 children so was it like the Hassidic Jews and the hole in the sheet jobby?'*
Nan: 'WHAT? Hole in the sheet???.......Your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'
Me: 'No sheet with a hole then - just hoi up the nightie? Kinky'
Nan : 'I'm calling your mother...and Your grandfather was a perfect gentlemen!'

Lucky I was the apple of my Nan's eye so was always allowed a certain amount of leeway...

Turns out that the only time she actually saw and touched her husband of 28 years naked body was when she washed his body to prepare him for burial. I think that is heartrendingly sad as they were a couple who absolutely adored each other and had known each other all their lives having grown up in the same street but their religion had taught them the human body is 'dirty'.



* Lived near Stamford Hill in North London which has a large Hassidic community - the sheets with the hole were pointed out to me by a Jewish friend who hated the Hassidim. Seems even during sex between married couples actual touching (apart from those bits that must touch) is frowned upon.

Obliq

Good ol Ireland eh? I had no such thing in my family (interestingly, most of the sexual hang-ups came from the protestant side), but only 14 years ago when my first son was born, a family down the road gave me an insight into what growing up catholic really meant. These 5 kids (ranging from 12 down to 3) used to come and play happily at my house (I'm an artist, so they could mess with paints/clay, and the place never used to look more messy after they left). Their grandmother called me an angel for the way they were always welcome, and their mother would call for tea now and then.

When my son was born, I was distressed to notice that although the kids came more often and adored the baby, whenever I had to change his nappy or feed him (breastfed) they would get up as one, and go home. The Mammy turned up and did the same thing. One day I questioned her and said "I'll only be a minute feeding him, won't you stay for a minute?". She explained that her mother-in-law (the grandmother lived with them) had told her when she had her first that she wasn't to breastfeed her (huge) brood as it was dirty and shameful. And now, that she'd better tell her kids not to be around me if I did.

So much for me being an angel! That's what the church taught. Nature is dirty and should be hidden away. :mad:

kylith

Obliq wrote: »

Good ol Ireland eh? I had no such thing in my family (interestingly, most of the sexual hang-ups came from the protestant side), but only 14 years ago when my first son was born, a family down the road gave me an insight into what growing up catholic really meant. These 5 kids (ranging from 12 down to 3) used to come and play happily at my house (I'm an artist, so they could mess with paints/clay, and the place never used to look more messy after they left). Their grandmother called me an angel for the way they were always welcome, and their mother would call for tea now and then.

When my son was born, I was distressed to notice that although the kids came more often and adored the baby, whenever I had to change his nappy or feed him (breastfed) they would get up as one, and go home. The Mammy turned up and did the same thing. One day I questioned her and said "I'll only be a minute feeding him, won't you stay for a minute?". She explained that her mother-in-law (the grandmother lived with them) had told her when she had her first that she wasn't to breastfeed her (huge) brood as it was dirty and shameful. And now, that she'd better tell her kids not to be around me if I did.

So much for me being an angel! That's what the church taught. Nature is dirty and should be hidden away. :mad:

My mind has always been boggled at the fact that the religious think that their deity went through all the design phases for the human body, working out how to connect the spleen and which way the knees should bend and whatnot, and then labelled large portions of it off limits, even if it's your own body. Surely if 'He' thought that willies and boobs were so evil he could have, I don't know, designed us to reproduce asexually, or for the woman to lay eggs that are fertilised ex-utero, like fish.

robindch

Newsflash! In 18 months' time, the Vatican is going to get serious on clerics who protect child abusers!

BTW, why is it "seen as important [...] that Dr Brady's successor is a northerner"?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/scandalhit-brady-to-go-as-new-cardinal-lined-up-3258009.html

Independent wrote:

THE VATICAN is set to make Cardinal Sean Brady pay the price of the recent scandals surrounding him by announcing his successor within two months.

The Vatican and the Papal Nuncio, Dr Charles Brown, are advancing plans to replace Dr Brady as Primate of All Ireland. It's all part of an effort to finally put two decades of scandal behind the church here. Senior Vatican sources said his successor -- most likely to be a bishop from abroad -- will be named before Christmas.

Dr Brady has up to now refused to resign despite the revelations about his mishandling of abuse allegations about the notorious Fr Brendan Smyth. It is understood Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, and most of the current Irish Catholic hierarchy do not figure in the succession stakes. Instead, the Vatican is shortlisting Irish clerics based outside the country.

Dr Brady has been mired in controversy, unable to shake the Smyth scandal since it ignited two years ago. He has faced repeated calls for his resignation after it emerged that he had been aware of abuse by Smyth in the 1970s, but did not inform the police or the abused children's parents. At the time, he announced that he had asked Rome for a bishop to assist him but this was not forthcoming from the Vatican.

However, the Vatican is now moving to appoint a coadjutor bishop -- a bishop with the right of succession -- to take over from Cardinal Brady, and hopes to have him in place by the end of the year. Whoever is selected as Cardinal Brady's successor would likely spend 18 months as coadjutor before finally taking over as Primate. By that stage, Dr Brady will be able to retire, having reached the age of 75. There is a widespread acceptance in church circles that suitable candidates in Ireland are in short supply.

However, it is also seen as important and in keeping with tradition, that Dr Brady's successor is a northerner. A leading contender is Fr Aidan McGrath from Banbridge, Co Down, who is working for the head office of the Franciscan order in Rome. Other names being spoken about in clerical circles include the Rome-based Dominican Paul Murray, who is from Belfast; the president of Maynooth, Msgr Hugh Connolly, who is from Dromore, and Derry's diocesan administrator Eamonn Martin.

Among clergy based in Ireland, Bishop Noel Traynor of Down and Connor is seen as the default candidate for the position. Ultimately three names will go forward and a successor chosen from those names. Dr Brady was in Rome this week but was not attending the Synod of Bishops.

However, sources have indicated that the cardinal had discussions while in the Vatican with the officials who will ultimately nominate his successor. Dr Brady came under renewed pressure to resign last May after a BBC documentary revealed that in 1975 he had the names and addresses of children allegedly molested by notorious priest abuser Brendan Smyth. A teenage boy, Brendan Butler, who had been sexually abused by Smyth, gave the names and addresses of other victims to Fr Brady, who at that time was a 36-year-old priest.

Fr Brady passed the allegations on to his superiors but did not inform the police or the children's parents. Smyth continued to sexually assault children up until 1988. Earlier this year Dr Brady apologised to Smyth's victims for his inaction.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

BTW, why is it "seen as important [...] that Dr Brady's successor is a northerner"?

It does seem odd alright, but the article mentions "tradition". Maybe they are superstitious :pac: and think it would be bad luck to break the established pattern.
Unfortunately their unimaginitive thinking means they will pass over the obvious candidate, Diarmuid Martin, who is probably the only one still left inside the church who would be universally seen as having worked actively for improved child protection measures.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

would be bad luck to break the established pattern.

Indeed -- why change something that's worked so well?

Nodin

recedite wrote: »

It does seem odd alright, but the article mentions "tradition". Maybe they are superstitious :pac: and think it would be bad luck to break the established pattern.
Unfortunately their unimaginitive thinking means they will pass over the obvious candidate, Diarmuid Martin, who is probably the only one still left inside the church who would be universally seen as having worked actively for improved child protection measures.

....given that he received the cold shoulder when they went off to the vatican, he'll be lucky to get a christmas card.

getz

i suppose they could start by changing a few laws within the vatican state its self,like lifting the age of consent above 12 years old,mind you if they did that they would have to take child abuse more seriously

MrPudding

Nodin wrote: »

....given that he received the cold shoulder when they went off to the vatican, he'll be lucky to get a christmas card.

Not related to religious abuse, per se, but more of an institutional cover up. Did anyone see the Panorama programme on the Jimmy Savile child abuse?

What I found interesting was comments like:

"Well, it just never occurred to me" In response to being asked why they didn't report suspicions to the police.

"I was only a junior DJ, no one would have beleived me." In response to being asked why they didn't report suspicions to BBC management.

There are other aspects of it which show the behaviour of the BBC and the church remarkably similar. Though I suspect the fallout, from the BBC's perspective will be faster, more public and more comprehensive.

MrP

robindch

The UK branch of the RCC is getting tough on pedophiles and has requested the Vatican to strip Savile of his Papal Knighthood:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20108980

pauldla

robindch wrote: »

The UK branch of the RCC is getting tough on pedophiles and has requested the Vatican to strip Savile of his Papal Knighthood:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20108980

I'd be surprised if they did, though I hope they prove me wrong. Wouldn't it set a precedent...?

MrPudding

pauldla wrote: »

I'd be surprised if they did, though I hope they prove me wrong. Wouldn't it set a precedent...?

The interesting thing here is that Jimmy is, currently, an alleged child abuser. He has never been convicted of anything, and given that he is dead, never will be. All there is, right now, is a growing list of allegations.

The rcc harbours actual convicted child rapists and refuses to do anything to them, why the strict stance on Jimmy?

MrP

fitz0

robindch wrote: »

The UK branch of the RCC is getting tough on pedophiles and has requested the Vatican to strip Savile of his Papal Knighthood:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20108980

Apparently the honour of being anointed a Knight Commander of St Gregory the Great dies with the recipient so at best this is a shameless PR exercise.

As Broadsheet's excellent headline says 'Papal calling the kettle black.'

Sulla Felix

robindch wrote: »

Newsflash! In 18 months' time, the Vatican is going to get serious on clerics who protect child abusers!

BTW, why is it "seen as important [...] that Dr Brady's successor is a northerner"?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/scandalhit-brady-to-go-as-new-cardinal-lined-up-3258009.html

tricky D

Any sane insitution would be dropping his honours like hot potato, but oh no, not with the perverted reasoning by the peeps in the vatican.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1027/jimmy-savile.html

Savile's papal knighthood died with him - Vatican

Updated: 22:42, Saturday, 27 October 2012

The Vatican has said it cannot rescind the papal knighthood awarded to television star Jimmy Savile, however the honour dies with the individual.

Hundreds of abuse claims have been made against Jimmy Savile

Jimmy Savile 'abused up to 300 victims'
Allegations against current BBC staff to be probed
BBC Newsnight editor steps aside over Savile
Criminal probe into alleged Savile abuse launched

Savile, a well-known BBC children's television host who died last year at the age of 84, has emerged as an alleged child sex predator after his death.

Savile was made a Knight Commander of St Gregory the Great by Pope John Paul II in 1990.

The Catholic Church of England said it has contacted the Holy See to ask it to posthumously revoke Savile's honour in recognition of the "deep distress" of the victims allegedly abused by Savile, a well-known BBC children's television host who died last year at the age of 84.

But the Vatican spokesman, the Reverend Federico Lombardi said that the names of people who receive the knighthood do not appear in its yearbook and that the honour dies with the individual.

Mr Lombardi said Savile never would have received the honour had the truth about his behaviour been known.

Savile's family break silence

Jimmy Savile's closest relatives today broke their silence to say their "own despair and sadness does not compare to that felt by the victims" who were abused by the late TV presenter.

The Metropolitan Police Force is investigating over 300 claims of abuse against Savile, who died last year.

In a statement released by Savile's nephew, Roger Foster, the family said: "How could the person we thought we knew and loved do such a thing?

"Why would a man who raised so much money for charity, who gave so much of his own time and energy for others, risk it all doing indecent criminal acts?

"How could anyone live their life doing the "most good and most evil" at the same time?"

In the statement, released to the Yorkshire Evening Post newspaper, the family explains why they wanted Savile's headstone removed, even though it had been unveiled only a couple of weeks earlier.

The family said: "We became more aware of the outrage that many members of the public were feeling.

"We took the decision to remove and destroy the headstone so that it couldn't become a focus for malicious people.

"The decision was a difficult one to make, but we knew it was the right one."

The family said their thoughts and prayers were with those who had suffered abuse.

"We recognise that even our own despair and sadness does not compare to that felt by the victims," they said.

FouxDaFaFa

Jesus, his own family take the (obviously very drastic and upsetting) step of destroying his headstone and the vatican can't be arsed rescinding the honour?