Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

DB have 2 fare structures in the city centre, stages and CC fare.
If I arrive at Parnell square on a 40, its free to get a bus to Nassau st.
It'll be 80 cents to get a tram across. Seems a missed opportunity to reduce busses through OCS

Indeed - but that's already the case for anyone arriving at Connolly on a bus/train and switching to LUAS for example.

I'd be surprised if that will change just because the Green Line is extended.

I'd also be surprised if many of the buses that go along OCS will change given that the vast majority are cross-city in nature, and are already linking up different corridors beyond the city centre.

With the exception of the 120 (and to a lesser extent the 46a and 122), there are very few routes along the new Green Line extension that could see service changes. Most are linking corridors together or are serving different markets to that served by the Green Line.

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

Indeed - but that's already the case for anyone arriving at Connolly on a bus/train and switching to LUAS for example.

I'd be surprised if that will change just because the Green Line is extended.

I'd also be surprised if many of the buses that go along OCS will change given that the vast majority are cross-city in nature, and are already linking up different corridors beyond the city centre.

With the exception of the 120 (and to a lesser extent the 46a and 122), there are very few routes along the new Green Line extension that could see service changes. Most are linking corridors together or are serving different markets to that served by the Green Line.

I was thinking of routes like the 7, which starts in Mountjoy or the 38/39 which finish off Baggot st need not necessarily run through the city centre ( OCS, College green) and instead finish up at Parnell square, with a free tram transfer, i.e. a 1euro city centre cash fare/leap discount
to Nassau st/SSG

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

I was thinking of routes like the 7, which starts in Mountjoy or the 38/39 which finish off Baggot st need not necessarily run through the city centre ( OCS, College green) and instead finish up at Parnell square, with a free tram transfer, i.e. a 1euro city centre cash fare/leap discount
to Nassau st/SSG

I don't see that happening - the fact that it does not exist on the Red Line as it is tells me that much.

Also, I'm not sure that's much of an improvement - passengers being forced to transfer. I'm sure that passengers on the 37/38/39/70 going to Baggot Street wouldn't be too impressed with your idea, being turfed off first at Parnell Square or Bachelors Walk, then again at St Stephen's Green?

And where would the 7 terminate? Where would northbound passengers transfer? Bear in mind that the NTA/DCC strategy is for no termini in the immediate city centre (Mountjoy Square and Merrion Square would be outside that).

strassenwo!f

College Green is potentially a wonderful space in the city centre. It's currently being used as a 6-lane highway to accomodate cars, taxis and buses. It makes sense to pedestrianise it as far as is currently possible , to create a large, central location for Dubliners to meet and socialise.

dRNk SAnTA

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I dont like the idea of reversing the flow of traffic on Church Lane. Trinity Street is far enough for general traffic to go, allowing people down as far as Church Lane undermines the plaza idea. Church Lane really should be pedestrianised along with Suffolk Street with a mini plaza at the junction where Molly Malone currently is.

I agree with you - Church Lane and the space in front of former St Andrews Church should be pedestrianised. There was a nice proposal to open up the space beside the church (currently parking) and create a paved public park.

I don't see why it would cause any major issue to do this?

Pete_Cavan

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

I agree with you - Church Lane and the space in front of former St Andrews Church should be pedestrianised. There was a nice proposal to open up the space beside the church (currently parking) and create a paved public park.

I don't see why it would cause any major issue to do this?

If Suffolk Street is pedestrianised, this becomes a no-brainer.

nowecant

Are they proposing the ban Taxis from College Green as well?

Certainly if they wanted to make it a public forum the more cares removed the better. It would also help bus movement during peak hours

dRNk SAnTA

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If Suffolk Street is pedestrianised, this becomes a no-brainer.

In 2013 there was a plan to pedestrianise the area I mentioned - image from the Grafton Street Quarter Public Realm plan. Looks great. See pdf: here



In June 2015, there was a suggestion to pedestrianise Suffolk Street in the Dublin City Transport Study, image below. See more on DCC website or Irish Times





I'm sure there are practical difficulties with making a change like this, but what are they? Surely they could be worked out?

cgcsb

The BT car park is the thing that all these plans tip toe around, it needs to go.

nowecant

cgcsb wrote: »

The BT car park is the thing that all these plans tip toe around, it needs to go.

I would agree but I think I would start with the Trinity Street car park first. At least then Trinity Street, Church Street, St Andrews Street, St Andrews Lane and Suffolk street could be pedestrianized easily. It would also significantly reduce the traffic on Dame Street

MrMorooka

strassenwo!f wrote: »

College Green is potentially a wonderful space in the city centre. It's currently being used as a 6-lane highway to accomodate cars, taxis and buses. It makes sense to pedestrianise it as far as is currently possible , to create a large, central location for Dubliners to meet and socialise.

I thought you wanted to turn it into a hole in the ground for several years?

strassenwo!f

MrMorooka wrote: »

I thought you wanted to turn it into a hole in the ground for several years?

This kind of silly comment, which does nothing to advance the thread, getting thanked by a moderator again.

FFS

Pete_Cavan

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

In 2013 there was a plan to pedestrianise the area I mentioned - image from the Grafton Street Quarter Public Realm plan. Looks great. See pdf: here


In June 2015, there was a suggestion to pedestrianise Suffolk Street in the Dublin City Transport Study, image below. See more on DCC website or Irish Times


I'm sure there are practical difficulties with making a change like this, but what are they? Surely they could be worked out?

I am aware of those proposals. One solution to the problems preventing this from happening is the Dublin2Walk proposal I posted earlier, it may need to be updated and further developed but it is a starting point to providing access to car parks in the area and then pedestrianising everything else.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Telchak

The report, via IrishCycle.com

strassenwo!f

<snip>

Mod: Do not attack other posters. Do not carry over discussions from other threads. Do not ignore warnings.

This is a warning.

Muahahaha

[/I'm sure there are practical difficulties with making a change like this, but what are they? Surely they could be worked out?

I'd imagine if Suffolk St were to be pedestrianised then the bottom part of Grafton St would have to be made two way for traffic to facilitate buses/taxis turning left from Dawson St onto Nassau Street. At a minimum it would mean the loss of the taxi rank at the bottom of Grafton St. Not impossible to do and it would be a great improvement to make a plaza out of Suffolk St but between the car park lobby and the taxi one there would be some amount of noise.

LXFlyer

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd imagine if Suffolk St were to be pedestrianised then the bottom part of Grafton St would have to be made two way for traffic to facilitate buses/taxis turning left from Dawson St onto Nassau Street. At a minimum it would mean the loss of the taxi rank at the bottom of Grafton St. Not impossible to do and it would be a great improvement to make a plaza out of Suffolk St but between the car park lobby and the taxi one there would be some amount of noise.

That's exactly the plan as I understand it - buses (not taxis) will be able to operate in both directions along the lower part of Grafton Street.

cgcsb

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd imagine if Suffolk St were to be pedestrianised then the bottom part of Grafton St would have to be made two way for traffic to facilitate buses/taxis turning left from Dawson St onto Nassau Street. At a minimum it would mean the loss of the taxi rank at the bottom of Grafton St. Not impossible to do and it would be a great improvement to make a plaza out of Suffolk St but between the car park lobby and the taxi one there would be some amount of noise.

Taxis are to be banned from college green along with cars afaik. How that'll be enforced is anyone's guess. Any chance of license plate recognition?

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

Taxis are to be banned from college green along with cars afaik. How that'll be enforced is anyone's guess. Any chance of license plate recognition?

I think if taxis and cars are banned, the shape would give it away. Buses are bigger.

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think if taxis and cars are banned, the shape would give it away. Buses are bigger.

Very good, I'm sure the shape would give them away but the idea of taking snaps of the license plate isn't to determine the type of vehicle, it's to send a nice €300 fine to said taxi driver.

strassenwo!f

I imagine, with little more than a month to go to 2016, and only 6-7 months before the major festivities surrounding the Easter Rising itself, we can pretty much say that the objective in this thread's title will not be realised.

Is it now time to change the thread title to something along the lines of: Should the city pedestrianise College Green, (and if so) What can the city do to pedestrianise College Green?

I think pedestrianisation of College Green would be one of the biggest leaps forward which the city could make, for the city. But it obviously needs to be accompanied by a major rethink of bus travel in and around that area, to make sure that bus travellers are not unduly discommoded.

As was discussed at length on the 'DART Underground - alternative routes' thread, in this forum, a pedestrianised College Green' might still be able to retain a very serious public transport function for the whole city, even if buses might no longer have such considerable access through this area.

garrettod

strassenwo!f wrote: »

...But it obviously needs to be accompanied by a major rethink of bus travel in and around that area, to make sure that bus travellers are not unduly discommoded....

Why only buses ?

In my view we don't have enough of them, they are not the most environmental friendly service and are probably not the most reliable service.

Schadenfreudia

Looks like the buses may be banned from College Green after all!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/bus-concerns-on-the-new-luas-cross-city-line-1.2478013

Another Public transport debacle on the way?

LXFlyer

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Looks like the buses may be banned from College Green after all!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/bus-concerns-on-the-new-luas-cross-city-line-1.2478013


Another Public transport debacle on the way?

As discussed in the thread linked below he has backtracked.

He has stated that he was only referring to the Leeson Street bus routes currently diverted via Nassau Street, Lincoln Place, Westland Row and Pearse Street.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057541453

He is not referring to routes operating via Dame Street, so no ban on buses is taking place.

Personally I think he is fundamentally incorrect - with no bus stops from Dawson Street to Westmoreland Street northbound and D'Olier Street and Nassau Street southbound, it would be perfectly possible for the key bus routes on that corridor (11, 39a, 46a, 145 and Xpresso) to share the space along Nassau Street and Grafton Street with LUAS trams.

Dublin Bus are already objecting to this suggestion from Owen Keegan.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/buses-must-be-allowed-back-to-college-green-says-dublin-bus-1.2478914

garrettod

lxflyer wrote: »

....Dublin Bus are already objecting to this suggestion from Owen Keegan....

At this stage, I'd actually like to know who is not objecting to something that has come from Owen Keegan (maybe the bike shop owners are happy with him, given all he's doing to help their industry, but everyone else I speak to seems very unhappy with him, be they residents of Dun Laoghaire, or people trying to get around Dublin city).

monument

garrettod wrote: »

At this stage, I'd actually like to know who is not objecting to something that has come from Owen Keegan (maybe the bike shop owners are happy with him, given all he's doing to help their industry, but everyone else I speak to seems very unhappy with him, be they residents of Dun Laoghaire, or people trying to get around Dublin city).

What exactly can Keegan be blamed for in Dublin City? I can't think of any projects constructed or in planning which started or kick started. Everything in the pipeline is councillor approved and in line with policy set by elected councillors and national governments.

Deedsie

monument wrote: »

What exactly can Keegan be blamed for in Dublin City? I can't think of any projects constructed or in planning which started or kick started. Everything in the pipeline is councillor approved and in line with policy set by elected councillors and national governments.

Pissing off Gareth Brooks fans...

MJohnston

More talk about banning buses too: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-to-unveil-radical-vision-for-college-green-in-dublin-1.2519576

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

More talk about banning buses too: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/council-to-unveil-radical-vision-for-college-green-in-dublin-1.2519576

More nonsense from DCC.

They need to realise that Dublin Bus will continue to carry far more passengers through College Green than the LUAS will ever do.

Where would all the routes that currently use Georges Street go? They would have a massive detour and extended journey times - it's just not a runner.

This suggestion is madness - it's only remotely viable if DART Underground and Metro North are in place.

garrettod

Who do the DCC report to (externally, not "in house") ?

Thanks.